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Is Jeffrey Sinclair really David Sheridan?

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  • Laiden
    replied
    *cringes waiting for everyones head to explode*

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  • jahkneebee
    replied
    Since Zathras brings the device from Epsilon 3 in each causal loop, all we have to do is watch it again and there will be four triluminaries.

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  • vacantlook
    replied
    Since Sinclair is Already Human . . . or now as Valen, Half Human . . . he would have children with another Minbari since Sakai wasn't alive for another 1,000 years
    To Dream In The City Of Sorrows spoilers ahead:

    s

    p

    a

    c

    e

    Except for that Sakai gets lost in time prior to Sinclair's going back in time. In the novel To Dream In The City Of Sorrows, which is cannonized by jms, Sinclair, Sakai, and Marcus run a mission to the time distortion, during which Sakai gets lost in the distortion. At the end of the novel, Marcus receives a letter written on thousand year old Minbari paper in which he's told that "From both of us, our thanks and friendship. Continue to dream that better future... where perhaps we'll meet again."

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  • JDSValen
    replied
    It just dawned on me that in "Grey 17", I think, Delenn tells Ratheen to have the box of Sinclair's belongings, which included the Battle of the Line Medal, to be sent to his family.

    So, I guess that's that.

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  • vacantlook
    replied
    The tracing of the presence of the chrysalis device and the triluminaries is so much simpler than many people seem to want to make it.

    The chrysalis device and all three triluminaries come with Zathras from Epsilon 3. Sinclair goes back in time with Babylon 4 and takes the chrysalis device and the three triluminaries with him. The chrysalis device and the three triluminaries become a fixture in Minbari culture at that time as they, along with the B4 station, are given to the Minbari by Valen. The chrysalis device and the three triluminaries from then on remain with the Minbari. When we see Zathras bring them onto the White Star in "War Without End," the same chrysalis device and the three triluminaries exist in two seperate places at the same time. One set with Zathras that goes back into time, the other set with the Minbari that continues forward in the present. The ones that go back in time will eventually (from their perspective) become the ones that are in the present time in possession of the Minbari.

    They do state they believe Valen was the point that Human and Minbari souls began to merge, but they obviously had no real indications of this until the triluminary was used on Sinclair.
    The Minbari still have no real indications of merging of souls, or of the existance of souls. All they have is their beliefs. The triluminaries don't detect souls (though popular belief by most Minbari is that they do, but it's still only belief). The triluminaries are DNA manipulating machines. They're used to power the genetic change in Sinclair and Delenn. And it is DNA that they detect. Delenn even eventually realizes this herself in season four's "Atonement". She may still believe in souls, but her belief that the triluminaries are soul machines is changed when she realizes her genetic connection to Sinclair and that the triluminaries powered his change into Valen. The triluminaries react to Sinclair because of his DNA. Similarly, they react to Delenn because of her trace amounts of Sinclair's DNA.

    Sinclair goes back in time as Valen, helps the Minbari beat the Shadows which causes them to hide and bide their time for 1,000 years. Eventually he has children, possibly from Sakai whom he finally finds, and Valen's children are banished from Minbar but eventually return since one of the descendants is Delenn.
    His having children would have to occur before he goes missing for ages.

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  • rallytbk
    replied
    Originally posted by rallytbk
    Remember there has to be zero date for that machine JMS could exploreà

    If just going to Sector 14 was the Bermuda triangle of space, why is it an issue when it comes to John Sheridan and a no issue when it comes to other possibilities?
    Can this all be fixed anytime soon (screaming at the top of my lungs)!!!

    Originally posted by Jan
    07-27-2005, 03:22
    As to why there are open threads, it's because the story of B5 was a slice of history. Take any 5 year segment of your life and tell me that everything that had begun was neatly completed and tied off. If you can, you've got a much more organized and controlled life than most of us.

    And for all the other 'whys'...because that's the story he wanted to write the way he wanted to write it. It's up to us to decide whether we like it or not but it was his story to write as he wanted. That may sound harsh but we're all free to write what stories we want to, too.

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  • Laiden
    replied
    Originally posted by WillieStealAndHow
    Sinclair goes back in time as Valen, helps the Minbari beat the Shadows which causes them to hide and bide their time for 1,000 years. Eventually he has children, possibly from Sakai whom he finally finds...
    Since Sinclair is Already Human . . . or now as Valen, Half Human . . . he would have children with another Minbari since Sakai wasn't alive for another 1,000 years

    Leave a comment:


  • David Panzer
    replied
    Sinclair goes back in time as Valen, helps the Minbari beat the Shadows which causes them to hide and bide their time for 1,000 years. Eventually he has children, possibly from Sakai whom he finally finds, and Valen's children are banished from Minbar but eventually return since one of the descendants is Delenn.

    Now, how that short summary of 1,000 years of Minbari history affects 1,000 years of Earth history please tell me. I just figured that Earth history continued as normal and that Sinclair's family history was just like any other family line on Earth

    Leave a comment:


  • Laiden
    replied
    I tried to think about how it COULD be possible and my head almost exploded, because quite simply . . . it almost made my head explode

    besides, if David is in the Rangers around his 20's how is he Sinclair and where does he obtain a family (brother) and have a history of growing up on mars and knowing Garabaldi, Takashima, Franklin, Katherine Sakai, and Ivanova as well as many other characters from the pilot and season 1 who have a long history with him? We have never had the chance of seeing any other minbari be sworn in to the grey council thats why we dont see anyone else put their hand in front of the triluminary.

    Sinclair goes back in time to help win the Shadow War and create the grey council as well as forming prophecy and creating the Rangers. he then has Children in which puts Human DNA into their genepool, thus creating the use for the Triluminary . . . and with the help of the vorlons creates history already made.

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  • imbaloo
    replied
    I know the idea is kind of out there but I don't think it can easily be proven impossible.

    I realize that his middle name being David is not much of an argument but imagine the feeling in my gut when I heard his name "changed" to David after I started thinking of the idea.

    As far as him having a brother and his family going back to the Battle of Britian, these are things he only talks about and there is no independant verification that they cannot be just part of his memory. Catherine does ask him about his brother, but never indicates that she actualy met him. It could be just a topic of regular conversation. Think about it. We met Sheridan's sister, we met Franklin's father (who personally knew Garibaldi's father), we met Ivanova's father (and brother), we met some of Vir's family. Delenn talks specifically of where her mother is. Londo has his family tree well documented. Compared to all these other family connections, Sinclair's is pretty tenuous.

    They do state they believe Valen was the point that Human and Minbari souls began to merge, but they obviously had no real indications of this until the triluminary was used on Sinclair. In fact we never see the triluminary actually used on anyone onter than Delenn and Sinclair. Allow yourself to think backward on this, instead of indicating that Delenn is descended from Valen could it not in actuality be indicating that Valen is descended from Delenn.

    There are statements made that make this idea difficult but there are several statement made that contradict other "facts" as we know them. Such is the nature of a 5-year TV series

    Allow yourself to stopt trying to think why this CAN'T be and look for hints and clues that it CAN be and you might be surprised.

    Isn't it possible that JMS left this possibility open (intentionally or not) whether or not he changed his mind about it since?

    Leave a comment:


  • rallytbk
    replied
    Originally posted by JDSValen
    Anyway, I read somewhere that the reason why they didn't show David in SiL is because JMS wasn't sure what a human/minabri hybrid would look like, and didn't want to get stuck to anything, incase he ever dealt with it in the future.
    I am glad he didn't commit to any character features or actor to play the part of David Sheridanà In the Terminator movies (#2 and #3) an adult John Conner is shown leading the fight against the machines and both leaders are completely different. Rather sad planning from my viewing experience.


    Originally posted by JDSValen
    Oh...Heinlein, about the closed casulty time loop, just think about the Chrysalis device. Delenn took it out of its place, knowing that she was the person it was meant for (it only worked with her because she was a direct descendent of Valen), and used it at the end of Season 1. She kept it until the time was right, then gave it to Sinclair, who used it to become Valen and then brought it back in time with him and put it in the place that Delenn got it from years later. So, that means the Chrysalis was never created, it just exists in time. Pretty cool, huh?
    If memory serves me right, didnÆt they say there are three triluminaries? And if there was three then were is the other two?

    Originally posted by Jan
    From: Jms at B5
    Subject: Re:JMS: Metamorphosis device
    To: AOL
    Date: 5/25/1996 6:20:00 PM

    The chrysalis device originally came from Epsilon 3 with the other equipment;
    this should've been showcased more visually, but there was so much going
    on...

    jms

    So I think that Zathras brought it to the White Star in WWE, Sinclair used it to become Valen and then it was passed down to Delenn for her to use in Chrysalis. Which means that there must have been two of the same device at some point, one on Epsilon 3 and the other on the Station. Unless something happened to it after Delenn used it

    Jan
    JMS confirms it. It came from Epsilon 3. I didnÆt know that Zathras brought the first (or only) triluminary to Sinclair/Valen, to be given to the Gray Council, to be use by Delenn in ôChrysalisö to be later used? Hey were did the triluminary go from there? Did Zathras brought it in WWE? Or maybe used by Delenn in ôChrysalisö then returned to the Gray Council, then given to Sinclair to be used in WWE. Whew! Rewindà

    Thoughts and questions.

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  • vacantlook
    replied
    I wonder if someone posted this to jms on the newsgroup, and he saw it and answered, I wonder what his reaction would be.

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  • Laiden
    replied
    I said "short answer" I didnt mean it was going to be accurate

    you still got the jist of it.

    and I didnt mean Zathras . . . I meant uh . . . Sheridan . . . damnit I'd have to watch the episode again to remember who was in the blue suit when sinclair encountered him.

    but I didnt say he "died" I just wanted to get across the point that he didnt go anywhere . . . that and with the ammount of time Minbari live, Sinclair probably got to live longer than he normaly would thus encountering Delenn.

    I just thought about how Delenn is a Child of Valen (sinclair) or rather decended from him, and that IF delenn is the mother of David Sheridan who becomes Jeffery Sinclair who goes back in time and Grows up on mars but then goes back in time again and becomes The "father" if you will, of delenn . . . thats kind of Redneck (pardon the term) . . . Delen is the mother/daughter of Sinclair but at the same time Sinclair is the Father/son of Delenn my heads about to explode I'm going to dunk my head in a tub of water. . .
    Last edited by Laiden; 09-30-2005, 11:58 AM.

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  • SpooRancher
    replied
    You forgot one thing. In the comments on "Confessions and Lamentation" as well as "Soul Hunter", jms has said that Delenn has SEEN Valen. Valen WAS the one who looked after Delenn until her parents returned. So, Sinclair did not die, merely faded away.

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  • Jan
    replied
    I think you spelled Zathras 'Sinclair'.

    Jan

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