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I haven't thought about it too in depth, but I kind of see going beyond the rim in B5 to be somewhat similar to going to the Undying Lands or whathaveyou in Lord of the Rings.
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or indeed 'The Long Walk' in the Judge Dredd comics.
or 'Going to the sea' in Babylon Fi..hey!I have the wings for Bingo.Comment
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Originally posted by rallytbkThis is how I related to ôSleeping in LightöOriginally posted by grumblerRe: Going "Beyond the Rim" = death:
I liked the idea when the show came out, but since lorien came back we have to assume that this is untrue - more of a "transcend the current life" kind of thing.
Though, if the Universe is sentient and simply gave bits of itself independent sentience, it is plauable to argue that "going beyond the Rim" means merging back into that uber- consciousness, which temporarily split off a portion of itself again to form Lorien when needed to recover Sheridan's consciousness (as a favor to him, so that it will be less traumatic).
In fact, it is so plausible that that is going to be my argument now!
Feature û Eskimo Old Age
One of the most well-known stories about the Eskimos is the strange practice that they have adopted when facing death, and old age.
According to the popular conception, Eskimos must work so hard to survive that they simply cannot manage to support adults who are no longer contributing to the well-being of the group.
Thus, when old-age strikes, rather than waiting around as they dwindle toward death, eating food their companions fight to catch and clothing their companions struggle to construct, the elderly Eskimos are taken to sea, and set adrift on a floating iceberg.
For more on this:
Or Simply:
"Then I will tell you a great secret, Captain. Perhaps the greatest of all time. The molecules of your body are the same molecules that make up this station and the nebula outside, that burn inside the stars themselves. We are starstuff, we are the universe made manifest, trying to figure itself out. As we have both learned, sometimes the universe requires a change of perspective."
Ambassador Delenn, A Distant Star"The world is a dangerous place---not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it" --Albert EinsteinComment
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That's funny .. in finding this board here and reading yalls posts, it got me to view the tapes I made of Babylon 5 again. I haven't watched a bit of it since I taped it when it was on TNT. It's been a lot of fun. "A Distant Star" was one of the eps I watched yesterday .. and I distinctly remember Delenn saying that."Then I will tell you a great secret, Captain. Perhaps the greatest of all time. The molecules of your body are the same molecules that make up this station and the nebula outside, that burn inside the stars themselves. We are starstuff, we are the universe made manifest, trying to figure itself out. As we have both learned, sometimes the universe requires a change of perspective."
Ambassador Delenn, A Distant Star
(BTW, as an additional benefit, I also get to relive the Clinton/Lewinsky/Starr thing too! I taped commercials & news spots along with the programs, and that was about the same time. I get a big chuckle when they replay "I never had sex with that woman .. Miss Lewinsky"!)Comment
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HAHA!! I WAS RIGHT SINCLAIR DID ENCOUNTER SINCLAIR!!! HE SWITCHED PLACES WITH SHERIDAN AND ZATHRAS GAVE HIM THE FIXED STABLIZER!! SOOriginally posted by Laiden
JAN LOL
"It is said that the future is always born in pain. The history of war is the history of pain. If we are wise, what is born of that pain matures into the promise of a better world, because we learn that we can no longer afford the mistakes of the past." -- G'Kar in Babylon 5:"In the Beginning"Comment
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well.. the whole time thing is just buggy.. just remind you the "grandfather paradox".. if you back in time and kill your grandfather with a bullet before your father were born, how come you were born? you would not exist.. so going back to babylon 5.. how could sinclair wrote himself a letter from the past? how did he get there in the first place? he goes back when he reads the letter asking him to go to babylon 4 and go back.. but the first time he went back to write the letter..there was no letter.. So really there is no real explanation for that.. meaning the explanation it is not reason but imagination and metaphisical.. we are looking at the fact that whether there are 1 or two triluminaries (instead of who the hell built epsilon 3? ok, if they where so great to built it and time travel..are they beyond the rim?) .. as in "beyond the rim" beeing afterlife not really "beyond the rim".. so coming back to the initial could david sheridan be sinclair's father? .. yes why not. but the reason of sinclair and deleen's changes are more metaphisical of understanding others.. there is no "logical explanation".. if you look only to the "logical explanation" of babylon 5 you are missing 75% of the story
if you want the universe to start making sense...Got a Hole in my MindComment
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If there was no letter, that means there was no Valen, meaning the Minbari had no Grey Council, meaning nobody to vote to go to war with the Humans, meaning no Minbari War, meaning no Babylon Project, meaning no Babylon 4, meaning the Shadows were never defeated........Originally posted by TR_3
ad nausuem."Ivanova is God!"Comment
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Originally posted by spoorancherCheck these links and post a comment.Originally posted by LaidenSinclairs life in short answer
Sinclair was born . . . grew up on Mars.
Joined Earthforce, Fought in the battle of the line
Survived the battle of the line because of a random choice by Delenn and they found out he is the second coming of valen. . . oh and souls of minbari were being reborn into humans.
Babylon Station being constructed, Sinclair chosen as commander by the Minbari.
Sinclair encounters Sinclair on Babylon 4.
Sinclair is sent to the minbari homeworld as "ambassador" but its really to lead the Rangers in training for the shadow war. Humans are now allowed to train as Rangers.
Sinclair Recieves message from Sinclair to go back in time and become Valen.
Sinclair be comes Valen
Sinclair has children
they are banished. but after time passes they return home
His Children have children
and so on
one Child is Delenn and she becomes apart of the Grey Council. (return to fourth line for re-read if you do not get it yet.)
"The world is a dangerous place---not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it" --Albert EinsteinComment
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In recently re-watching Babylon 5 (I saw SiL two nights ago) I came across something in the 4th Season (around Atonement, possibly shortly thereafter).
I remember Delenn saying that they were so surprised at the Chrysalis' reaction to Sinclair that they took in other humans and probed them as well, and the results were also confirmed by the Triluminary.
Would that mean that the Triluminary was not necessarily coded to Sinclair's DNA, but to HUMAN DNA?
Just a thought, as I doubt seriously that all the humans brought in for the confirmation were Sinclair's close relatives."Ivanova is God!"Comment
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Funny you should say that, because from what is currently knownà Just a thoughtà (Assuming it is within the continuity of the events and nothing else was published). The only humans the Minbari could have tested the Triluminary on, were Jeffery Sinclair (during the Battle of the Line), John Sheridan and Dr. Stephen Franklin during their mission to meeting Lenonn and capture in ôIn the Beginningö.Originally posted by SpooRancher
What if all the main characters are all related to each other in some way or another? Lets explore that option.
Originally posted by Lurkers guide to Babylon 5 A Late Delivery From Avalon"The world is a dangerous place---not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it" --Albert EinsteinComment
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A later part in the "JMS speaks" section:The answer was given more straightforwardly later, the mention of Morgana LeFay was a set up for the return of Anna Sheridan:Was the "who is Morgana Le Fay?" scene a dig at people on the net who say B5 is just some other story with different trappings?
The references given (he said vaguely, to avoid spoiling anybody) were first and foremost intentional to the story and to set up stuff...but as I wrote it, the way this stuff has been discussed online did come to mind, and on some level it was probably a slight *plink*, yes.
Sort of a "yeah, well, TWO can play at that game, and most of you missed THIS particular analogy, so THERE."
I am in serious need of a vacation, I think....
As to why the Trilumminary, coded to Sinclair's DNA would light up with other humans...
We share some 94 % of our DNA with Chimpanzees.
The DNA of Sinclair had enough similarities to other humans that is likely that any human would light up the trilumminary.
Encoding to recognize all of a certain human's DNA means having information to partially recognize almost any human.
That AFAIK is enough science fact to justify that science fiction, without recurring to further assumptions about relatedness between characters (I do like Occam's Razor).
Now... I would be interested if anyone had ever asked JMS whether a trilumminary would also light up, however dimly, with a chimpanzee or gorilla...
It would be most interesting to speculate whether the Minbari would then assume that their souls are also reincarnating in other Earth apes!
A possible speculation, all within canon...
The assumption that only the known characters of B5 could be tested seems unwarranted.
The Minbari had many humans available for capture, the same way they captured Sinclair they could have captured other fighter pilots (or escape pods from bigger ships) in the Battle of the Line.
My own personal speculation about DNA encoding in the trilumminary and transformations:
It would be just the small amount of Sinclair specific DNA that would allow the Human-Minbari transformation, either by being part of the activation code or being part of the information necessary to complete the transformation.
Delenn's transformation to Human was almost, but not quite, complete precisely because some of the pieces of Sinclair/Valen's DNA were missing from her after several generations.Such... is the respect paid to science that the most absurd opinions may become current, provided they are expressed in language, the sound of which recalls some well-known scientific phrase
James Clerk Maxwell (1831-79)Comment
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Many detectors are metering devices. It is often convenient to not only know about the presence of something, but the strength as well. The Triluminary may have varied it's brightness based on the "strength" of the match. It could react to any human dna, but the reaction to Sinclair could have been much stronger. That would fit with the Minbaris believing Sinclair had the soul of a great Minbari while not attributing that to every human."That was the law, as set down by Valen. Three castes: worker, religious, warrior."Comment
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Not only could they have done so, but did do so. Lennier tells Sheridan and Ivanova that after testing Sinclair that they took in more humans and tested them as well during his explanation to them in "Points of Departure".Originally posted by Capt.MontoyaComment
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Sorry to dredge up such an old thread but t is a point which has confused me...
JMS claims Sinclair found Sakai.. now let us assume for a minute that the quote from In Valen's Name " I've found her" refers to this...
Originally posted by WillieStealAndHow View Post
OK?
Then why is the message for Delenn, Garibaldi, Ivanova AND Catherine Sakai?
If he's found Sakai why is he leaving a message to her?
This hasalways led me to assume that the her referred to is somebody else.. but whom?Comment
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I thought the end of To Dream In The City Of Sorrows made it pretty clear that Sakai made her way back to Sinclair also. It wasn't that straightforward, but implied very heavily.
What a confusing topic. I'll have to reread the In Valens Name comics.Comment
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