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Is Jeffrey Sinclair really David Sheridan?

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  • #46
    Valen and Sakai's human children would not be able to mate with a Minbari. Either the children would have to be converted or Sakai is not one of Delenn's ancestors.
    Andrew Swallow

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    • #47
      Originally posted by Andrew_Swallow
      Valen and Sakai's human children would not be able to mate with a Minbari. Either the children would have to be converted or Sakai is not one of Delenn's ancestors.
      Assuming, of course, that their children were human.
      "That was the law, as set down by Valen. Three castes: worker, religious, warrior."

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      • #48
        Originally posted by WorkerCaste
        Assuming, of course, that their children were human.
        If Sakai has not been converted then her children can only be human.

        This strongly looks like Valen had two females, Sakai and a Minbari. This sort of soap opera like behaviour would cause a scandal.
        Andrew Swallow

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        • #49
          Originally posted by I love Lyta
          I know that the phrase "They passed beyond the rim." is just a way to say they vanished out of the known universe.
          I always considered that phrase to be similar to saying ôHeÆs with god nowö or ôUp in Heavenö. Thinking about it, what would they say if you died in outer space?

          Originally posted by WorkerCaste
          Well, Delenn (transformed) and Sheridan (human) had a child, so Sinclair (transformed) and Sakai (human) should be able to as well. We know it presented difficulties, but it wasn't impossible.
          Would Catharine Sakai have a C-section? That bonehead would surely hurt during childbirth, lol.

          Originally posted by Andrew_Swallow
          If Sakai has not been converted then her children can only be human.
          Well, the answers not here right now, lack of information, but one thing is certainà the general Minbari population has not seen children of Sakai until a few generations have past and became more Minbari(ish), we all know Minbari do not lie, but they do keep secrets.
          "The world is a dangerous place---not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it" --Albert Einstein

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          • #50
            Do we know for certain that if Valen and Sakai wanted to have children that they'd do it the old fashion way of boinking? Perhaps there was some science involved. The technology must be there considering G'Kar wanted to mate with Lyta (he presented both that option and an option of cloning Lyta should direct mating not appeal to her) and there would have had to have been science involved to make Lyta's DNA fuse with Narn DNA, as G'Kar mentioned. Maybe something similar happened between Valen and Sakai, thus the scandal.

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            • #51
              "I always considered that phrase to be similar to saying ôHeÆs with god nowö or ôUp in Heavenö. Thinking about it, what would they say if you died in outer space?"

              Dunno what they would say, but the phrase is definitely not synonym with dying because in the end all the Vorlons and Shadows along with the remaining first ones passed beyond the rim and I do not think that meant they all gave up there corporeal existance because then they would not have needed their ships to do it.
              What's up Drakh?

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              • #52
                Originally posted by I love Lyta
                Dunno what they would say, but the phrase is definitely not synonym with dying because in the end all the Vorlons and Shadows along with the remaining first ones passed beyond the rim and I do not think that meant they all gave up there corporeal existence because then they would not have needed their ships to do it.
                The phrase could have been expressed in both ways... To explain the death of a loved one (and the fact Galaxies do have rims), never to be seen again.

                Sheridan was dying at the end of ôSleeping in Lightö, Lorien helped him live another 20 years. By your understanding do you assume Sheridan is still alive? Or became starstuff?

                Note: Why would the Vorlons and Shadows be afraid of going beyond the rim if they were just going to the space between Galaxies? I believe it was more symbolic to show them prepare for their departure (canÆt leave advance toys lying around can we?) and die/leave gracefully.

                Or I could be completely way off.


                "Then I will tell you a great secret, Captain. Perhaps the greatest of all time. The molecules of your body are the same molecules that make up this station and the nebula outside, that burn inside the stars themselves. We are starstuff, we are the universe made manifest, trying to figure itself out. As we have both learned, sometimes the universe requires a change of perspective."
                Ambassador Delenn, A Distant Star
                "The world is a dangerous place---not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it" --Albert Einstein

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                • #53
                  I think the Vorlons and Shadows were just used to and comfortable with the way things were. Having to become just another ordinary First One without minions wasn't easy.
                  Flying around the room under my own power.

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                  • #54
                    Originally posted by Laiden
                    "They had better start having babies . . ."
                    Is that an order?
                    "Ivanova is God!"

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                    • #55
                      All this Sincair/Valen/Catherine talk has got me thinking again, (oh the pain). Could there be a connection between the word Satai and Catherine's surname?
                      I have the wings for Bingo.

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                      • #56
                        Originally posted by SpooRancher
                        Is that an order?
                        Maybe . . . before long
                        "It is said that the future is always born in pain. The history of war is the history of pain. If we are wise, what is born of that pain matures into the promise of a better world, because we learn that we can no longer afford the mistakes of the past." -- G'Kar in Babylon 5:"In the Beginning"

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                        • #57
                          Originally posted by Shr'eshhhhhh
                          All this Sincair/Valen/Catherine talk has got me thinking again, (oh the pain). Could there be a connection between the word Satai and Catherine's surname?
                          That is the funniest thing I ever heard (not that it canÆt be true or used to continue another story), it is funny how we over analyze these things and come up with stuff that is really out thereà

                          Maybe the fact that Valen + wife (possibly both not born on Minbar) brought this Satai reference in to the Minbari vocabulary, when introducing his wife to the Minbari tribal chiefs/seniors. LOL.
                          rallytbk
                          Confirmed User
                          Last edited by rallytbk; 10-05-2005, 01:52 PM.
                          "The world is a dangerous place---not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it" --Albert Einstein

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                          • #58
                            Interesting line of thought imbaloo.
                            Allow yourself to stopt trying to think why this CAN'T be and look for hints and clues that it CAN be and you might be surprised.

                            Isn't it possible that JMS left this possibility open (intentionally or not) whether or not he changed his mind about it since?
                            JMS has been very open about what changes and possibilities he had for B5 (e.g. transferring some plot-lines for some characters), and he has never hinted what you suggest.
                            Allow yourself to stop looking for confirming evidence only and you might be surprised at what the hints and clues actually suggest. Search the archive, and the lurker's guide and you will find enough evidence for other interpretations.


                            We know that Valen found Sakai and can safely assume he married her.
                            As pointed before that caused a bit of a scandal (here's the link again: http://jmsnews.com/msg.aspx?id=1-107...akai%20minbari )
                            But there's another mention of the scandalous life of Valen:
                            http://jmsnews.com/msg.aspx?id=1-306...alen%20scandal

                            I have pointed to that post before, and the two, together with other canonical (or canonized) facts mentioned lead me to my conclusion.
                            The children of Valen are the children of Jeffrey Valen and Catherine Sakai.

                            To put another nail in the coffin of the original speculation:
                            http://jmsnews.com/msg.aspx?id=1-142...clair%20father
                            Sinclair's father was named David.
                            Now, if you wanted to speculate that David Sheridan decided to go back in time and rename himself David Sinclair...
                            But that would go against the canon view that there was only one instance of time travel in B5.
                            I had forgotten all about Sinclair's brother, but he is mentioned in a few JMS posts, and never with any indication that the brother might not exist.

                            An interesting thought, but with a show so well documented as this one, there is no reason to believe it.
                            Such... is the respect paid to science that the most absurd opinions may become current, provided they are expressed in language, the sound of which recalls some well-known scientific phrase
                            James Clerk Maxwell (1831-79)

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                            • #59
                              Originally posted by rallytbk
                              By your understanding do you assume Sheridan is still alive? Or became starstuff?

                              Note: Why would the Vorlons and Shadows be afraid of going beyond the rim if they were just going to the space between Galaxies? I believe it was more symbolic to show them prepare for their departure (canÆt leave advance toys lying around can we?) and die/leave gracefully.
                              Well, Lorien said that he is looking forward to meet him again beyond the rim.
                              And since Sheridan vanished out of the ship one could assume he transcended to the non-corporeal form of existance...

                              Just because they would have to give up control over the galaxy I'd say.
                              Only the fact that Lorien wouldn't let his children pass alone gave them comfort.

                              Aw hell! (NO! DON'T START TO FIRE CONTINOUSLY!)
                              How am I supposed to know!
                              What's up Drakh?

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                              • #60
                                Re: Going "Beyond the Rim" = death:

                                I liked the idea when the show came out, but since lorien came back we have to assume that this is untrue - more of a "transcend the current life" kind of thing.

                                Though, if the Universe is sentient and simply gave bits of itself independent sentience, it is plauable to argue that "going beyond the Rim" means merging back into that uber-conciousness, which temporarily split off a portion of itself again to form Lorien when needed to recover Sheridan's conciousness (as a favor to him, so that it will be less traumatic).

                                In fact, it is so plausable that that is going to be my argument now!
                                I believe that when we leave a place, part of it goes with us and part of us remains. Go anywhere in the station, when it is quiet, and just listen. After a while, you will hear the echoes of all our conversations, every thought and word we've exchanged. Long after we are gone .. our voices will linger in these walls for as long as this place remains. But I will admit .. that the part of me that is going .. will very much miss the part of you that is staying.

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