Is Jeffrey Sinclair really David Sheridan?

[Laiden]

I tried to think about how it COULD be possible and my head almost exploded, because quite simply . . . it almost made my head explode

besides, if David is in the Rangers around his 20's how is he Sinclair and where does he obtain a family (brother) and have a history of growing up on mars and knowing Garabaldi, Takashima, Franklin, Katherine Sakai, and Ivanova as well as many other characters from the pilot and season 1 who have a long history with him? We have never had the chance of seeing any other minbari be sworn in to the grey council thats why we dont see anyone else put their hand in front of the triluminary.

Sinclair goes back in time to help win the Shadow War and create the grey council as well as forming prophecy and creating the Rangers. he then has Children in which puts Human DNA into their genepool, thus creating the use for the Triluminary . . . and with the help of the vorlons creates history already made.

[David Panzer]

Sinclair goes back in time as Valen, helps the Minbari beat the Shadows which causes them to hide and bide their time for 1,000 years. Eventually he has children, possibly from Sakai whom he finally finds, and Valen's children are banished from Minbar but eventually return since one of the descendants is Delenn.

Now, how that short summary of 1,000 years of Minbari history affects 1,000 years of Earth history please tell me. I just figured that Earth history continued as normal and that Sinclair's family history was just like any other family line on Earth

[Laiden]

Sinclair goes back in time as Valen, helps the Minbari beat the Shadows which causes them to hide and bide their time for 1,000 years. Eventually he has children, possibly from Sakai whom he finally finds...

Since Sinclair is Already Human . . . or now as Valen, Half Human . . . he would have children with another Minbari since Sakai wasn't alive for another 1,000 years

[rallytbk]

Remember there has to be zero date for that machine JMS could exploreà

If just going to Sector 14 was the Bermuda triangle of space, why is it an issue when it comes to John Sheridan and a no issue when it comes to other possibilities?

Can this all be fixed anytime soon (screaming at the top of my lungs)!!!

07-27-2005, 03:22
As to why there are open threads, it's because the story of B5 was a slice of history. Take any 5 year segment of your life and tell me that everything that had begun was neatly completed and tied off. If you can, you've got a much more organized and controlled life than most of us.

And for all the other 'whys'...because that's the story he wanted to write the way he wanted to write it. It's up to us to decide whether we like it or not but it was his story to write as he wanted. That may sound harsh but we're all free to write what stories we want to, too.

[vacantlook]

The tracing of the presence of the chrysalis device and the triluminaries is so much simpler than many people seem to want to make it.

The chrysalis device and all three triluminaries come with Zathras from Epsilon 3. Sinclair goes back in time with Babylon 4 and takes the chrysalis device and the three triluminaries with him. The chrysalis device and the three triluminaries become a fixture in Minbari culture at that time as they, along with the B4 station, are given to the Minbari by Valen. The chrysalis device and the three triluminaries from then on remain with the Minbari. When we see Zathras bring them onto the White Star in "War Without End," the same chrysalis device and the three triluminaries exist in two seperate places at the same time. One set with Zathras that goes back into time, the other set with the Minbari that continues forward in the present. The ones that go back in time will eventually (from their perspective) become the ones that are in the present time in possession of the Minbari.

They do state they believe Valen was the point that Human and Minbari souls began to merge, but they obviously had no real indications of this until the triluminary was used on Sinclair.

The Minbari still have no real indications of merging of souls, or of the existance of souls. All they have is their beliefs. The triluminaries don't detect souls (though popular belief by most Minbari is that they do, but it's still only belief). The triluminaries are DNA manipulating machines. They're used to power the genetic change in Sinclair and Delenn. And it is DNA that they detect. Delenn even eventually realizes this herself in season four's "Atonement". She may still believe in souls, but her belief that the triluminaries are soul machines is changed when she realizes her genetic connection to Sinclair and that the triluminaries powered his change into Valen. The triluminaries react to Sinclair because of his DNA. Similarly, they react to Delenn because of her trace amounts of Sinclair's DNA.

Sinclair goes back in time as Valen, helps the Minbari beat the Shadows which causes them to hide and bide their time for 1,000 years. Eventually he has children, possibly from Sakai whom he finally finds, and Valen's children are banished from Minbar but eventually return since one of the descendants is Delenn.

His having children would have to occur before he goes missing for ages.

[JDSValen]

It just dawned on me that in "Grey 17", I think, Delenn tells Ratheen to have the box of Sinclair's belongings, which included the Battle of the Line Medal, to be sent to his family.

So, I guess that's that.

[vacantlook]

Since Sinclair is Already Human . . . or now as Valen, Half Human . . . he would have children with another Minbari since Sakai wasn't alive for another 1,000 years

To Dream In The City Of Sorrows spoilers ahead:

s

p

a

c

e

Except for that Sakai gets lost in time prior to Sinclair's going back in time. In the novel To Dream In The City Of Sorrows, which is cannonized by jms, Sinclair, Sakai, and Marcus run a mission to the time distortion, during which Sakai gets lost in the distortion. At the end of the novel, Marcus receives a letter written on thousand year old Minbari paper in which he's told that "From both of us, our thanks and friendship. Continue to dream that better future... where perhaps we'll meet again."

[jahkneebee]

Since Zathras brings the device from Epsilon 3 in each causal loop, all we have to do is watch it again and there will be four triluminaries.

[Laiden]

*cringes waiting for everyones head to explode*

[vacantlook]

When Zathras brings them from Epsilon 3, there are two chrysalis devices and six triluminaries in terms of how many you could seperately count. They are however two sets of the same ones; it's just that one set is with Zathras and the other set is with the Minbari. The history of the ones with the Minbari are the future of the ones with Zathras.

[David Panzer]

Vacantlook- also, don't forget the ending of the 3 issue miniseries "In Valen's Name" published by DC in '98, and the comic series is considered canon by JMS.

Spoilers Be Here






For the course of the miniseries, Delenn was viewing the archives on Babylon 4. The last message she views is from Valen/Sinclair.

"My name is Valen... and I have served my people like no other. I led them into fire... into darkness... into death... and they followed me without hesitation. They acclaim my victories and hail me as a great leader. They speak of my successes as if they are as infinite as the stars. And yet, for all that I've accomplished... I lie awake, listening to the screams of the dead and dying, those who are already gone, and those are yet to be born. A few words from me could avert the Earth-Minbari conflict. A warning to Delenn or Duhkat... But without the war, there would be no Babylon 4 and no Babylon 5. There would be no rallying point against the Darkness... and the Shadows would win, now and a thousand years from now. I cannot deviate from the circle of which I am a part. I am the beginning of the story, as Zathras said... and a prisoner of it. I dare not change the end. Still... it's been a good life... lives... over all. Delenn, Catherine, Susan, Michael... if any of you see this somehow.. don't cry for me. For in the final analysis, I've always been too hard on myself. I'll be content to let history judge me, and all that has been done in Valen's name. And as for me... I've received my own reward, because I've found her. At long last... I've found... her."

[vacantlook]

Here's my roughly made Triluminary Timeline in jpg form

[grumbler]

I doubt the David-Sinclair connection for one primary reason: Sinclair is simply too self-assured, speaks "too much like a Minbari" for him to be the tenative and unsure David of the scenario.

He is self-assureed as early as the Minbar War because his dad was "the best" and taught him "everything I know." Such a dad HAS to exist or such a charactor cannot exist. One cannot leap from an alien civilization/timestream and be so self-assured, IMO.

Further, the agony that drives him to self-destruction while nominally destroying a Minbari cruiser (and what makes him stand out enough to be noticed by Delenn) would not be present if he is David Sheridan and knows the outcome of the Battle of the Line beforehand.

Great speculation, but misplaced IMO.

[Shr'eshhhhhh]

I love these speculations.

When I was watching the show I was convinced that Kosh (which I took as Vorlon for "One") was Sinclair. My theory went that after the shadow war Valen used the third triluminary to transform himself into a Vorlon. And returned to the station in "the Gathering".

That way Kosh could quite literally have always been on the station and would be recognised by everyone if he dropped the disguise.

Also it would explain why Kosh cared for 'lower' races unlike Ulkesh.

It would also explain Ulkesh's line, "We are all Kosh"
or "we are all one."


Nonsense of course but like Twin Peaks before it, the speculation the show inspired was part of the fun. I recently experienced something similar with the new Doctor Who show and the "Bad Wolf".

[cornholio1980]

The last message she views is from Valen/Sinclair.

When recounting Sinclais/Valens last message, one should also point out that JMS stated that the mention of Catherine's name was a mistake of the writer, which unfortunately he didn't catch in time.

And what I ask myself after reading this thread: Is it even possible for Valen to have children with Catherine? Now we can assume that after his transformation, he was no "full" Minbari but rather a Hybrid, like Delenn was. We know that before her transformationen, Delenn wouldn't have been able to mate with a human. What we don't know is, if she could get children both with humans AND Minbari AFTER the transformation - which would hint that Sinclair would have been able to do so wich another human, namely Catherine.

Is there any information available concerning that question?