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Is Jeffrey Sinclair really David Sheridan?

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  • Is Jeffrey Sinclair really David Sheridan?

    I have found indications or hints that this may be true. I first got the notion while thinking of a reason for them to have the same initials (other than those are also JMS's, kinda). When I started thinking of it several things fell into place.

    In no particular order here are some of my observations:

    1) He is practically the only character that doesn't have a family member that can be corroborated. Almost every mention of his family can be explained with a mind wipe.

    2) His middle name being "David".

    3) I would expect that after 1000 years a huge number of Minbari would be descended from Valen and the DNA would be quite diluted, so I postulate that the reason Delenn shares so much DNA with Valen is that she is his mother.

    4) There is no real mention of David Sheridan in his years after escaping his Keeper.

    There are other indications that pop up from time to time but these are the biggest ones I can think of at this writing.

    I realize that there are some incongruities to this idea but I am reminded of Mr. Ellison's book intro where he discusses the difficulties of writing a TV series and equates it to his "store window" book writing.

  • #2
    Originally posted by imbaloo
    3) I would expect that after 1000 years a huge number of Minbari would be descended from Valen and the DNA would be quite diluted, so I postulate that the reason Delenn shares so much DNA with Valen is that she is his mother.

    4) There is no real mention of David Sheridan in his years after escaping his Keeper.
    Hi Imbaloo. That's not a theory I've ever run across before but I tend to doubt it for a few reasons.

    David is a pretty common name for JMS to use. There are a few of them, David and Elizabeth being the two most common, I believe. Anyway, Sheridan's father is named David.

    We don't actually know that Delenn "shares so much DNA with Valen", all we know is that there's some. The implication I got was that the triluminary would have glowed for any of the 'children of Valen'. Given that the device used to effect Sinclair's change turned Delenn less completely, you've got some dilution apparent there.

    They mention David in Sleeping in Light. Delenn tells Susan that he's at a critical part of his Ranger training.

    I think it was a pretty cool trick getting Sinclair to become Valen. JMS said he'd only do the time travel thing once.

    Glad you joined us!

    Jan
    "As empathy spreads, civilization spreads. As empathy contracts, civilization contracts...as we're seeing now.

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    • #3
      You realize that what you're proposing is a closed causal time loop, right? That can be maddening if you think about it for too long
      Be wary of strong drink. It can make you shoot at tax collectors... and miss.
      Robert A. Heinlein

      Comment


      • #4
        you're proposing is a closed causal time loop?

        Originally posted by imbaloo
        re:Is Jeffery Sinclair really David Sheridan? I have found indications or hints that this may be true. I first got the notion while thinking of a reason for them to have the same initials (other than those are also JMS's, kinda). When I started thinking of it several things fell into place.
        Nah, but I assumed David Sheridan would have used the great machine to go back in time sometime after he finished Ranger training or something pivotal, to close the circle created when JMS did both Babylon Squared and War without End. No one really knows if David Sheridan looks human, half Minbari or full Minbari. All I know is the show is finished (until JMS writes a new arc in the B5 universe).

        Note: I also assumed all the main characters would go back in time and become Legends of their worlds past, but that never happened either.

        My thoughts on the time travel sector 14 issue in B5, full text.
        http://jmsnews.com/forums/showthread...8897#post18897 and http://jmsnews.com/forums/showthread...8911#post18911

        There was a time à question about filling gaps and finishing arc holesà when it came to Epsilon 3 and the time rift on Sector 14à

        Questions like: Did anybody else use that time machine to tweak or fix present (present meaning the stations timeline) time? Did anyone passing Sector 14 (intentionally or not) go forward or back help or hurt the stationÆs present? And how far (forward or backward) in time did this machine go? 1000 years forward and backward? 10,000 years, 100,000 years or no limit? Remember there has to be zero date for that machine JMS could exploreà
        Last edited by rallytbk; 09-30-2005, 11:26 AM.
        "The world is a dangerous place---not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it" --Albert Einstein

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        • #5
          Isn't there a whole episode where they explain that Valen was the point where human and minbari souls began to merge, and that Delenn is a direct decendent of Valen?

          Anyway, I read somewhere that the reason why they didn't show David in SiL is because JMS wasn't sure what a human/minabri hybrid would look like, and didn't want to get stuck to anything, incase he ever delt with it in the future. So, I highly doubt that David was ever intended to be Sinclair. Sinclair is 100% human (btw, if you suscribe to the whole DaVinci code theory, there is an argument that can be made that Sinclair is a decendent of Christ, but that's a whole other topic).

          Oh...Heinlein, about the closed casulty time loop, just think about the Chrysalis device. Delenn took it out of its place, knowing that she was the person it was ment for (it only worked with her because she was a direct decendent of Valen), and used it at the end of Season 1. She kept it until the time was right, then gave it to Sinclair, who used it to become Valen and then brought it back in time with him and put it in the place that Delenn got it from years later. So, that means the Chrysalis was never created, it just exists in time. Pretty cool, huh?
          Last edited by JDSValen; 09-30-2005, 09:01 AM.
          http://www.andrewcardinale.com
          @acardi

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          • #6
            Originally posted by JDSValen
            Oh...Heinlein, about the closed casulty time loop, just think about the Chrysalis device. Delenn took it out of its place, knowing that she was the person it was ment for (it only worked with her because she was a direct decendent of Valen), and used it at the end of Season 1. She kept it until the time was right, then gave it to Sinclair, who used it to become Valen and then brought it back in time with him and put it in the place that Delenn got it from years later. So, that means the Chrysalis was never created, it just exists in time. Pretty cool, huh?
            I'm not sure that's completely accurate. JMS said:

            From: Jms at B5
            Subject: Re:JMS: Metamorphosis device
            To: AOL
            Date: 5/25/1996 6:20:00 PM

            The chrysalis device originally came from Epsilon 3 with the other equipment;
            this should've been showcased more visually, but there was so much going
            on...

            jms
            So I think that Zathras brought it to the White Star in WWE, Sinclair used it to become Valen and then it was passed down to Delenn for her to use in Chrysalis. Which means that there must have been two of the same device at some point, one on Epsilon 3 and the other on the Station. Unless something happened to it after Delenn used it?

            Time travel makes me dizzy...

            Jan
            "As empathy spreads, civilization spreads. As empathy contracts, civilization contracts...as we're seeing now.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by JDSValen

              Oh...Heinlein, about the closed casulty time loop, just think about the Chrysalis device. Delenn took it out of its place, knowing that she was the person it was ment for (it only worked with her because she was a direct decendent of Valen), and used it at the end of Season 1. She kept it until the time was right, then gave it to Sinclair, who used it to become Valen and then brought it back in time with him and put it in the place that Delenn got it from years later. So, that means the Chrysalis was never created, it just exists in time. Pretty cool, huh?
              Oh man, I'm gonna burst a brain cell putting that one together. It's like the first TERMINATOR movie. Closed causal loops are not meant to be pondered too deeply, or one will descend into madness!!! Like being without coffee...
              Be wary of strong drink. It can make you shoot at tax collectors... and miss.
              Robert A. Heinlein

              Comment


              • #8
                I seem to recall that Sinclair had a brother, and that he had an ancestor named Sinclair that was in the Battle of Britain during WWII. I almost think that the Sinclair from WWII was documented in Sinclairs office somewhere or another.
                "That was the law, as set down by Valen. Three castes: worker, religious, warrior."

                Comment


                • #9
                  Sinclairs life in short answer

                  Sinclair was born . . . grew up on Mars.

                  Joined Earthforce, Fought in the battle of the line

                  Survived the battle of the line because of a random choice by Delenn and they found out he is the second coming of valen. . . oh and souls of minbari were being reborn into humans.

                  Babylon Station being constructed, Sinclair chosen as commander by the Minbari.

                  Sinclair encounters Sinclair on Babylon 4.

                  Sinclair is sent to the minbari homeworld as "ambassador" but its really to lead the Rangers in training for the shadow war. Humans are now allowed to train as Rangers.

                  Sinclair Recieves message from Sinclair to go back in time and become Valen.

                  Sinclair be comes Valen

                  Sinclair has children

                  they are banished. but after time passes they return home

                  His Children have children

                  and so on

                  one Child is Delenn and she becomes apart of the Grey Council. (return to fourth line for re-read if you do not get it yet.)
                  "It is said that the future is always born in pain. The history of war is the history of pain. If we are wise, what is born of that pain matures into the promise of a better world, because we learn that we can no longer afford the mistakes of the past." -- G'Kar in Babylon 5:"In the Beginning"

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I think you spelled Zathras 'Sinclair'.

                    Jan
                    "As empathy spreads, civilization spreads. As empathy contracts, civilization contracts...as we're seeing now.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      You forgot one thing. In the comments on "Confessions and Lamentation" as well as "Soul Hunter", jms has said that Delenn has SEEN Valen. Valen WAS the one who looked after Delenn until her parents returned. So, Sinclair did not die, merely faded away.
                      "Ivanova is God!"

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                      • #12
                        I said "short answer" I didnt mean it was going to be accurate

                        you still got the jist of it.

                        and I didnt mean Zathras . . . I meant uh . . . Sheridan . . . damnit I'd have to watch the episode again to remember who was in the blue suit when sinclair encountered him.

                        but I didnt say he "died" I just wanted to get across the point that he didnt go anywhere . . . that and with the ammount of time Minbari live, Sinclair probably got to live longer than he normaly would thus encountering Delenn.

                        I just thought about how Delenn is a Child of Valen (sinclair) or rather decended from him, and that IF delenn is the mother of David Sheridan who becomes Jeffery Sinclair who goes back in time and Grows up on mars but then goes back in time again and becomes The "father" if you will, of delenn . . . thats kind of Redneck (pardon the term) . . . Delen is the mother/daughter of Sinclair but at the same time Sinclair is the Father/son of Delenn my heads about to explode I'm going to dunk my head in a tub of water. . .
                        Last edited by Laiden; 09-30-2005, 11:58 AM.
                        "It is said that the future is always born in pain. The history of war is the history of pain. If we are wise, what is born of that pain matures into the promise of a better world, because we learn that we can no longer afford the mistakes of the past." -- G'Kar in Babylon 5:"In the Beginning"

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I wonder if someone posted this to jms on the newsgroup, and he saw it and answered, I wonder what his reaction would be.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by JDSValen
                            Anyway, I read somewhere that the reason why they didn't show David in SiL is because JMS wasn't sure what a human/minabri hybrid would look like, and didn't want to get stuck to anything, incase he ever dealt with it in the future.
                            I am glad he didn't commit to any character features or actor to play the part of David Sheridanà In the Terminator movies (#2 and #3) an adult John Conner is shown leading the fight against the machines and both leaders are completely different. Rather sad planning from my viewing experience.


                            Originally posted by JDSValen
                            Oh...Heinlein, about the closed casulty time loop, just think about the Chrysalis device. Delenn took it out of its place, knowing that she was the person it was meant for (it only worked with her because she was a direct descendent of Valen), and used it at the end of Season 1. She kept it until the time was right, then gave it to Sinclair, who used it to become Valen and then brought it back in time with him and put it in the place that Delenn got it from years later. So, that means the Chrysalis was never created, it just exists in time. Pretty cool, huh?
                            If memory serves me right, didnÆt they say there are three triluminaries? And if there was three then were is the other two?

                            Originally posted by Jan
                            From: Jms at B5
                            Subject: Re:JMS: Metamorphosis device
                            To: AOL
                            Date: 5/25/1996 6:20:00 PM

                            The chrysalis device originally came from Epsilon 3 with the other equipment;
                            this should've been showcased more visually, but there was so much going
                            on...

                            jms

                            So I think that Zathras brought it to the White Star in WWE, Sinclair used it to become Valen and then it was passed down to Delenn for her to use in Chrysalis. Which means that there must have been two of the same device at some point, one on Epsilon 3 and the other on the Station. Unless something happened to it after Delenn used it

                            Jan
                            JMS confirms it. It came from Epsilon 3. I didnÆt know that Zathras brought the first (or only) triluminary to Sinclair/Valen, to be given to the Gray Council, to be use by Delenn in ôChrysalisö to be later used? Hey were did the triluminary go from there? Did Zathras brought it in WWE? Or maybe used by Delenn in ôChrysalisö then returned to the Gray Council, then given to Sinclair to be used in WWE. Whew! Rewindà

                            Thoughts and questions.
                            "The world is a dangerous place---not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it" --Albert Einstein

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                            • #15
                              I know the idea is kind of out there but I don't think it can easily be proven impossible.

                              I realize that his middle name being David is not much of an argument but imagine the feeling in my gut when I heard his name "changed" to David after I started thinking of the idea.

                              As far as him having a brother and his family going back to the Battle of Britian, these are things he only talks about and there is no independant verification that they cannot be just part of his memory. Catherine does ask him about his brother, but never indicates that she actualy met him. It could be just a topic of regular conversation. Think about it. We met Sheridan's sister, we met Franklin's father (who personally knew Garibaldi's father), we met Ivanova's father (and brother), we met some of Vir's family. Delenn talks specifically of where her mother is. Londo has his family tree well documented. Compared to all these other family connections, Sinclair's is pretty tenuous.

                              They do state they believe Valen was the point that Human and Minbari souls began to merge, but they obviously had no real indications of this until the triluminary was used on Sinclair. In fact we never see the triluminary actually used on anyone onter than Delenn and Sinclair. Allow yourself to think backward on this, instead of indicating that Delenn is descended from Valen could it not in actuality be indicating that Valen is descended from Delenn.

                              There are statements made that make this idea difficult but there are several statement made that contradict other "facts" as we know them. Such is the nature of a 5-year TV series

                              Allow yourself to stopt trying to think why this CAN'T be and look for hints and clues that it CAN be and you might be surprised.

                              Isn't it possible that JMS left this possibility open (intentionally or not) whether or not he changed his mind about it since?

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