Q about Episode Z'ha'dum

[I love Lyta]

On the european DVD when Sheridan draws his PPG and the shadow enters there is a sharp cut and the next sequence is him entering the big cave on the balcony in pretty banged up shape.
So my Q is: Is this any different on the US DVD?

One other thing I'm pretty sure of is that when I saw the series on TV one scene was Morden running into Kosh for the first time and Kosh tells him to leave.
Then Morden becomes all dark and the next sequence showes Kosh's suit slightly damaged.
On the DVD the scene with the damaged suit isn't there.
Do I imagine things or am I remembering it correctly and the scene was cut out?

[jcbatz]

You aren't imagining. The cut you describe in Z is, in fact, there. It is a bit of a hiccup to get past a basic fight and on to the bigger event (cue the Whitestar).

The scene with Morden and Kosh is close to what you describe. You see Morden go dark, but that is the end of the scene. Later on, Garibaldi tells Sinclair that Kosh's suit was damaged (they think it was in the Raider attack) but Kosh wouldn't say HOW it got damaged. As far as I know, we never see any damage to Kosh's suit until he dies.

[Laiden]

I agree with the kosh suit thing, and with the scene in Za'ha'dum, they do deliberately cut to another scene when sheridan fires his PPG, because its needless to seem him kill one Shadow and then get the crap beaten out of him while trying to escape to the balcony. Thus! when the show returns to Sheridan he is beaten pretty badly so you just figure "wow what a struggle." and much like everyone else I thought "I would have like to see that!"

[jcbatz]

I seem to recall JMS saying something to that effect on the commentary. There is a bit more detail about what is going on during Z in the last Technomage book.

[David Panzer]

From what I remember of the Kosh scene, there is a transition to another scene when the camera focuses on Morden's face. Later in the episode when Garibaldi is talking to Sheridan and Delenn, you hear some of the battle, catch some glimpses of it in the shadows, and possibly see it reflected on the visor for the beather Morden is wearing.

[Laiden]

there might be some confusion between Season 1's "Signs and Portents" and Season 3's "Interludes and Examinations"

in "Signs and Portents" you see morden encounter kosh for the second time (he avoided him the first time) and kosh told him to leave. the place goes black and the next thing you hear of it is from Garabaldi who tells Sinclair that his suit got damaged and he asked for some equipment to repair it.

in "Interludes and Examinations" Kosh dies . . . there you see morden enter Kosh's quarters and Mordens "associates" attack him and there are some flashes of light that reflect off mordens breather/face you also see some distorted images of the attack when Kosh is talking to Sheridan in his mind.

[David Panzer]

Thanks for the clarification. With all the times I've seen the series on DVD now, I'd defend someone's comment that Sheridan drove a '59 Deville when he actually drove the '38 Packard during his Moon/Mars patrol.

[Laiden]

Thanks for the clarification. With all the times I've seen the series on DVD now, I'd defend someone's comment that Sheridan drove a '59 Deville when he actually drove the '38 Packard during his Moon/Mars patrol.

. . . I forgot about that! Better go watch the DVD's again

[I love Lyta]

Thanks for all the answers.
I'm currently reading "Invoking Darkness".
I read up to when Anna reaches B5 then watched the episode. Now I will read the book till the end whenever I'll have the time.
I think the scene when Kosh was killed was described pretty nicely in the book.
Quite a number of events are much clearer when one read the books.
i.e. the whole Londo as emperor and Sheridan being brought before him thingy.
Btw, could it be that in a scene of "In the Beginning". One actually saw Michael York?

[Shadows the first ones]

well i think thats all bull i mean if shadows are older then vorlons and just as powrful as them then how the hell did sheridan kill a shadow with ppg and they couldent kill a vorlon with a whole frigin army i think thats bolocks but ofcourse im a big shadow fan

[I love Lyta]

First of all, when londo had morden arrested his guards killed his two shadow watchdogs with PPGs too.
Second, I think it's so relatively easy to kill them because they can't have a shield up to protect them while phase-shifted. They probably even don't have any shields because they deem themselves invincible, which would also explain why sheridan suceeded as well in killing the one that came after him while the vorlons have all kinds of devices in their encounter suits for protection.
But that's just a guess that sounds logic to me. No facts to back it up, though.

One other thing on the techno-mage trilogy, btw.
I like it because it also tells what goes on on the shadows' side most of the time.
For example the build-up, the eye and Anna inside the ship and Justin training her for the encounter with Sheridan.

[jcbatz]

Anna's training is, by far, the best thing in the whole Technomage trilogy. Her reactions and comments are hysterical!

I didn't enjoy the Technomage books too much, but Anna's part was priceless!

[Harrdy]

If you watched B5 you learned that the mindset of the Shadows was survival through conflict. So it would make sense they don't defend themselfes as good as the Vorlons... after all: The death of a Individuum is only reason to believe the Individuum has been weak. I therefore also don't think the black spidery things are Encounter suits (as some have remarked on other places) but the Shadows themselfes. If you throw a hundred into a fight only "the best" survive (according to their philosophy). I believe they only changed their mindset a little after there where not enough new shadows because of their age as a species. Maybe that is their reason they forgot the answer to their question? "What do you want" doesn't like to hear "Safety" as an answer?! 8-)

PeAcE

[grumbler]

Someone more skilled than I amy be able to find it, but I recall reading or hearing somewhere JMS explaining that Sheridan did not kill the Shadow on Z'Ha'Dum, but merely hurt him and drove him back.

The Centauri guards who scragged the two Shadows were carrying massive guns. PPGs were designed for use in a spaceship envronment, where you don't want a lot of penetration because of the risk of penetrating a hull. That would not apply to the Centauri weapons, which were presumably selected because they were the most powerful thing available.

[Heinlein]

well i think thats all bull i mean if shadows are older then vorlons and just as powrful as them then how the hell did sheridan kill a shadow with ppg and they couldent kill a vorlon with a whole frigin army i think thats bolocks but ofcourse im a big shadow fan

That's easy: the Shadows dont need environmental suits. Kosh does. I'm sure that, when exposed, Kosh can be killed just as easily.

Although I believe that, when Londo had Morden's "escorts" killed, it took a half dozen salvo pounding from the PPGs to finish them off.