The Centauri and Nazis?

[elver]

I was recently to a war museum in Luxembourg where they had World War II uniforms of German soldiers and I noticed that two of the soldiers were wearing something rather odd around their necks. It looked like the thing that the Centauri emperor wears.

http://flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/33946784/

There was another soldier wearing something with even rounder corners that looked more like the Centauri emperor thingie, but I could not get a good shot of that.

And, well, the history of the Centauri empire is, pretty much, similar to the history of nazi Germany. So, Londo is Hitler?

[Jan]

And, well, the history of the Centauri empire is, pretty much, similar to the history of nazi Germany. So, Londo is Hitler?

I doubt it. JMS has said from the beginning that the Centauri Republic most resembles the British or Roman Empires which had achieved greatness but then faded. For instance:

For those taking notes, you'll remember Ambassador Londo Mollari, of the
Centauri Republic...likened in some ways to the fading Roman or British
empires. At one time, their fist could be felt across most of what is now
inhabited space. Now...they live on old stories and fading glories.

The Narns once were very much under Centauri control, and they received
in many ways the most brutal treatment of any "protectorate" in Centauri
jurisdiction. A little under a hundred years ago, as the power of the
Centauri Republic was fading, the Narns broke their chains in open revolution
and expelled the occuping army, achieving independence.

and:

For a thousand years, the Centauri Republic was a force to be reckoned with. Like the English empire once upon a time, it held hundreds of planets in its control. It was a great military power. But slowly, as can happen, they grew content, and lazy, and gradually their own empire began to slip between their fingers. A world deciding to go rogue was troublesome, to be sure, but it's SO far away, and it's SUCH a bother to go take care of it, when we can easily get the same things from other places...let them go. They'll come crawling back sooner or later.

As a result, they are now down to a Republic that consists of barely a
dozen systems and thirty worlds.

What parallels do you see between the Centauri Republic's history and Nazi Germany?

Jan

[Dr Maturin]

And, well, the history of the Centauri empire is, pretty much, similar to the history of nazi Germany. So, Londo is Hitler?

Wrong.

The Centauri Republic is similar to the Roman Empire, the history of which is markedly different than that of the Nazi regime. The Nazis came to power by way of lower class workers' unions, the members of which were ripe for the preaching of anti-Semitic, Aryan supremacist messages.

One connection between the Roman Empire and the Nazis is that the latter considered themselves the "Third Reich," while the former was considered to be the first. It is possible that emperors of the Holy Roman Empire wore similar neck pieces and that Nazi officers adopted the accessories for their own uniforms. JMS could have taken inspiration from either source for the Centauri Emperor's "Seal of the Republic."

[elver]

What about the whole 'return to former glory' speech by Londo? That was, basically, Hitler's quest -- returning Germany to its former glory.

[Ranger1]

Agree totally with Z'ha'dumDweller,the Centauri resemble the Roman Empire (which Hitler was obssesed with).

Worship many Gods = Centauri and the Romans.
Penthion (or whatever you spell that) = Centauri and the Romans.
The Centauri's architecture looks exactly like the architecture from those early Roman era.

The only thing that makes the Centauri looks like Nazi's are the boots (with the pants inside)....maybe....i remember people reffering those Empire (Star Wars) officers as Nazis too becuase they had the same boots and stuff.

[Dr Maturin]

What about the whole 'return to former glory' speech by Londo? That was, basically, Hitler's quest -- returning Germany to its former glory.

Hitler was referring to what he saw as the Second Reich; the German Empire. He felt that the Weimar Republic had ruined Germany. In a sense, Londo felt the same way, as there are several quotes from the source material that suggest that Londo and others were unhappy with the current regime's policies.

[I love Lyta]

I'd also say that the centauri republic resembles the roman empire, being german myself. All that bigotry, strife for status and privilege and such is a good indication IMO.
Even Carthagia's end resembled that of Cesar's.
Granted, Vir wasn't his son (neither is Londo) but he died at the hands of someone noone -especiall he himself- would have suspected.
Also his delusions of grandeur and his goal to set his world on fire resembles Nero burning rome.

[WorkerCaste]

BTW, the neck piece I think you're referring to is a Gorget, and it has been used to indicate rank in many armies/hierarchies in many eras. It was originally functional armor protecting the throat in the 1400's or so, but over time it became more stylized and was applied to rank. I don't know modern uniforms that well, but I know it was used for British officers through the Napoleanic period, at least.

[jal]

BTW, the neck piece I think you're referring to is a Gorget, and it has been used to indicate rank in many armies/hierarchies in many eras. It was originally functional armor protecting the throat in the 1400's or so, but over time it became more stylized and was applied to rank. I don't know modern uniforms that well, but I know it was used for British officers through the Napoleanic period, at least.

you are correct.

[Towelmaster]

What about the whole 'return to former glory' speech by Londo? That was, basically, Hitler's quest -- returning Germany to its former glory.

But that is a recurring thing. There have been many many people/leaders who have said the same through the ages.
To me, comparing Londo to Hitler sounds like comparing James Tiberius Kirk to Djenghis Kahn.

[Laiden]

I always felt that Londo reminded me of Napolean << just like in that picture!

[Jan]

I was looking for a post from JMS about Londo's costume when this thread first came up. I could have sworn that JMS said something about the similarities being deliberate but I can't find the post I'm thinking of.

Which is a long-winded way of saying that I agree.

Jan

[NotKosh]

What about the whole 'return to former glory' speech by Londo? That was, basically, Hitler's quest -- returning Germany to its former glory.

Irrelevant. A return to the good old days, or trying to reattain past stature is nothing solely Nazi.

You are grasping at straws with your Centauri-Nazi analogy, and there aren't any within a light year, much less arms reach.

[Harrdy]

I think it is a typical "A is like B, therefore C is like B"-error...

Hitler was a sucker for myths, he used them to "charm" the common people, which also knew the myths. He used everthing availiable to gain power, and heroic gesture was one very convincing act at that time (one could argue that it still is: Or why do so many people think that the "War on Terrorism" is a good thing..?).

So: A would be the Roman Empire and B would be the German Third Reich. You would argue because Hitlers Third Reich resembled the Romans it is like the Centauri Rep. because it resembled the Romans. Granted, you left the Romans out of the picture 9-)

By the way: Hitler was a Vegetarian, are therefore all Vegetarians like Hitler? You see, even if A is B that is no reason that B is A 9-)
(in Mathematic I learned about "Mengenlehre", don't know how it is called in english. With that terms you would say: A value "A" is part of the quantity of values {M}. Are all values of {M} therefore equal to "A"? I'm sure you can see quickly that there is no need for all values of {M} to be equal to "A"...)

Bottom line(?): You cannot classify (that easily) by comparing a behavior or symptoms. Why, yes you can, but you would be unfair to the compared one. Eg? With the Nazis there where "Concentration Camps". Is America like the Nazis because they have "Concentration Camps" (Guantanamo, etc.)? I would tend to say no, but I hear often people using that comparison... 9-)

PeAcE

[Andrew_Swallow]

{snip}
Bottom line(?): You cannot classify (that easily) by comparing a behavior or symptoms. Why, yes you can, but you would be unfair to the compared one. Eg? With the Nazis there where "Concentration Camps". Is America like the Nazis because they have "Concentration Camps" (Guantanamo, etc.)? I would tend to say no, but I hear often people using that comparison... 9-)

PeAcE

You can also remember that calling Guantanamo Bay Camp X-ray a Concentration Camp is a malicious insult.