I found a copy of Crusade...

[David Panzer]

I don't bother with the love stories. Although I do consider "Tenchi Muyo" and "Neon Genesis Evangelion" love stories.

I'm a bit messed up, I'll admit.

[The Puzzled Pak'Ma'Ra]

I'll look for Crusade here on DVD, but will probably take longer. It took 6 months for me to finally find a copy of all 5 seasons of B5. China's a tough market to be selling Sci-fi. Locals don't even know what sci fi is.

... One thing about China, you cannot help but violate copyright laws/intellectual property laws. It's a very serious challenge to find anything REAL in the country, at least in terms of DVDs, CD's, books and the like.

... Maybe your experience is different... I shouldn't make assumptions. But that's all I see every time I'm there.

[David Panzer]

China?! I wish you the best of luck. When Crusade came out in December last year it wasn't until August of this year that I found a copy in Memphis.

[David Panzer]

I never expected the 13 Crusade episodes to be Seasons 3 and 4 of B5. From what I've read on JMS' archived posts, the Lurkers Guide, this forum, and the extras as few as there was on the DVD, Crusade was never given a chance to walk and develop the threads that were created in 13 episodes and the 4 unfilmed episodes.

Despite all that, I still enjoyed what I watched.

[The Puzzled Pak'Ma'Ra]

... I dunno... Crusade was a bit of a letdown.

... I kept waiting for it to dazzle me with something spectacular, like JMS did so many times with B5 ... and it didn't happen for me.

... It's totally watchable and I'll keep the set simply because I'm a huge fan of the B5 universe, but....

... But to each his own, eh.

[WorkerCaste]

I think that whoever thought once it was done it would be too late don't know Joe.

[Jan]

Am I the only one who thinks they never had any intention of putting them on in the first place?

"It's easier to get forgiveness than permission." Possibly true in many cases but not, I think when you've broken your word to JMS and screwed around with his words.

Jan

[Garibaldi's Hair]

I would love to see JMS eventually get around to a Crusade script book for no other reason than to read all the TNT memos, as well as Joe's comments about what went wrong with the series- you know, the comments that were supposed to be on the DVD, but Warners decided to cut them out? Am I the only one who thinks they never had any intention of putting them on in the first place?

Hmmm .... no!

[Joe Nazzaro]

I would love to see JMS eventually get around to a Crusade script book for no other reason than to read all the TNT memos, as well as Joe's comments about what went wrong with the series- you know, the comments that were supposed to be on the DVD, but Warners decided to cut them out? Am I the only one who thinks they never had any intention of putting them on in the first place?

[Jan]

Glad you finally got to see it, Willie! I loved Crusade. Even with the meddling, I still feel that it could have been as good, albeit in a different way, as B5 was.

The feeling I had from the 'black uniform' episodes was just that they were kind of watered down from the writing I knew JMS could do. I remember his telling us at a convention that TNT *hated* everything about 'The Path of Sorrows'. "Nobody's interested in all that backstory" they told him. Yeah, right.

Jan

[SpooRancher]

The acting was excellent. Gary Cole only had 1 scene where I thought, "Hey it's the guy from Office Space", which was his lounging in the tubeway tunnel.

For some funny reason, I keep seeing either Mike Brady, or the commentator from Dodge Ball. I wonder why!

[David Panzer]

Ok, I just finished watching all 13 Crusade episodes. All I can say is "Damn that was good."

Evan Chen's music considerably improved from "A Call to Arms" which sounded like the instrumentalists in a Noh play had too much sake. I expected to see a Japanese demon holding a Naginata floating by the Excalibur. In the Crusade series, the music had more melody but still maintained the unique exotic flair which seperates it from Franke's material, which was brilliant.

Watch "A Call to Arms" first, then "Racing the Night". It works as a first episode, since it's not a typical first episode where everyone has their predictable introduction like in "War Zone". War Zone, in my view, would have worked better as an episode where Gideon reflects on how they began whilst they're going on to another mission as his thoughts, or reviewing his log before sack time even though it still would seem cliche.

The acting was excellent. Gary Cole only had 1 scene where I thought, "Hey it's the guy from Office Space", which was his lounging in the tubeway tunnel.

It was bitter-sweet watching quality episodes knowing it would get better as time went on but not allowed to. But since I'm a Cubs' fan, what else is new?

[Anders]

Thing is Anders ... B5 started off with lots of separate self contained episodes in order to introduce the characters and situations, and the universe itself. It wasn't until mid-season 3 that B5 moved more into "serial" rather than "series" mode ... and not until season 4 that it went all the way to produce a whole season that moved from one epsiode straight into the next.

I was sold just a few minutes into The Gathering the first time I saw it, and absolutely loved the first season. I was a bit uncertain about Sinclair leaving the show, but of course it worked out fine. Even if I really like Crusade, I never had a similar feeling for that show. I'm very disappointed that it got cancelled though (whatever way it happened).

In particular, whilst I quite enjoy War Zone for what it is, Racing The Night is a far better episode, and would have made a far superior opening for the show as a whole.

I really enjoyed listening to JMS talking during Racing The Night, but I don't think it would have worked well as a first episode. It's action filled and has a decent story, but it doesn't set up the show well. Perhaps it's too action filled, too unclear in what it wants to do. Even if JMS pointed out that he thinks it would be a more subtle way to start the series, it was also interesting to hear him criticise the episode towards the end.

Oh ... and I love Evan Chen's music

No point in debating this, because we'll never come to an agreement. For me it was the one big turn off in the entire B5 universe ever. I love all five B5 seasons, I like Crusade and Legend of the Rangers, and all the B5 movies (although River of Souls would have been one of the worst episodes of B5 had it been included in the series). I loved the actors in all the series/movies, and the original B5 music, the CGI was cool, and the arc is just amazing.

My list of worst things about B5 (incl.everything from the B5 universe):

1. E. Chen's music
2. Too much knowledge about the future of the universe during the B5 series
3. Time travel (even if it happened only once, and was extremely important)

I can't think of anything else I didn't like. My list of positive things is too long to write.

[Garibaldi's Hair]

Thing is Anders ... B5 started off with lots of separate self contained episodes in order to introduce the characters and situations, and the universe itself. It wasn't until mid-season 3 that B5 moved more into "serial" rather than "series" mode ... and not until season 4 that it went all the way to produce a whole season that moved from one epsiode straight into the next.

Crusade was trying to bring in new fans as well as keep the old B5 fans happy, so it had to begin by introducing everything that was already familiar to B5 fans, for new viewers' benefit.

With hindsight, we can see the little touches and (what we thought were) throwaway lines of dialogue in season 1 of B5 that had impact two or three seasons later. We were never given the chance to see that happening with Crusade, so they do look like unrelated, throwaway lines of dialogue or whatever.

Another difference between Crusade and B5 was that JMS was not allowed to develop the story of Crusade's first season in the way he originally intended because of TNT's interference.

I am one of those who much prefers the original 5 episodes (with the grey uniforms) to the ones made after TNT first put the show on hiatus and insisted on changes. The only change that was worth it was the uniform change, that grey was just ... well ... pants.

In particular, whilst I quite enjoy War Zone for what it is, Racing The Night is a far better episode, and would have made a far superior opening for the show as a whole.

Just my $0.02.

Oh ... and I love Evan Chen's music

[Anders]

I think War Zone is one of the two best episodes in the entire series, together with Each Night I Dream Of Home. I don't understand why some people don't like it. My least favourite episode was Patterns Of The Soul.

As for the series I think it had great potential. It certainly wasn't perfect, but it had the right actors, the right universe, and a great background story. I think some of the episodes were too unfocused though. I wish they had brought the story along a bit faster, instead of having one-off episodes that had no specific meaning for the next episode. The one thing I really didn't like about the series was the music. I've watched all the episodes 2-3 times now, and I can never get used to Evan Chen's music.

With B5's music, and a more focused B5 like arc, the show would have been really amazing. I'm sure it would have gotten there though, if it just had gotten past the first season still alive and kicking.

PS I first watched the series in JMS' preferred order, and then in the normal DVD order, and I prefer the normal DVD order. I feel the series moves along more nicely and smoothly then.