I found a copy of Crusade...

[David Panzer]

Yesterday, after my bank situation I wanted to get a couple DVD's as a gift to me since July 11 was my b-day. At Best Buy, I found a copy of Crusade, as well as the 2 Marx Brothers sets I've wanted since I heard they're going to be released.

I couldn't decide so I flipped a coin. Heads- Crusade, Tails- Marx Brothers. Best 3 out of 5. Marx Brothers won it 3-2.

Now, before you start ripping on me for choosing something over Crusade, please let me explain. I've been a Marx Brothers fan since I was 3. I watched them on my grandpa's lap and we both loved them. I've been a B5 fan since I watched all of Season 1 when I bought it 2 years ago. I didn't even know there was a Crusade series, until I discovered this site and the Lurker's guide, which was around the time Season 4 came out on DVD.

I will get Crusade. My recent viewing of B5 got me interested to take a chance on it. I just have to watch Harpo first.

[SpooRancher]

Too bad that Crusade didn't feature a return of Rebo and Zooty. It might have tilted the balance in it's favor!

[Towelmaster]

"Why a duck?"... It is an understandable dilemma indeed...

BTW : As you are Marx Bros fan : if you don't already have it you should immediately get this book :

"Flywheel, Shyster & Flywheel; attorneys at law".

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0701134232/qid=1121280260/sr=8-2/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i2_xgl14/002-9673448-3362455?v=glance&s=books&n=507846

I loved it to bits. Unknown but great stuff.

[Leto II]

Too bad that Crusade didn't feature a return of Rebo and Zooty. It might have tilted the balance in it's favor!

That, and they should've done the "Aristocrats Joke" on the show.

That would've sealed it, baby.

[David Panzer]

I definitely need to see that movie. Waits patiently for it to open in Memphis...

[Shr'eshhhhhh]

You have just purchased 2000 shares in Fireflys Incorporated.

[Towelmaster]

You have just purchased 2000 shares in Fireflys Incorporated.

"And that NOISE!"
"Yeees, Narn-Opera"...

[Firebird]

That, and they should've done the "Aristocrats Joke" on the show.

That would've sealed it, baby.

How about..... "You can't fool me mister, there aint no sanity clause!!!!"

[David Panzer]

While this thread is a couple months old, it fits exactly with what I'm going to say.

First off, I got a temp job that pays well. So I finally get paid and had every intention of purchasing a book; "The Bloody Crown of Conan" which is the second of three books collecting Robert E. Howard's Conan stories. Borders had a copy back in August, they no longer do in October.

I placed an order for it, and then went to check the comic section for Supreme Power Volume 3. Nothing. I went to the DVD section to browse and saw the exact same copy of Crusade they had back in August. I picked it up and bought it along with a Snapple Raspberry Iced Tea.

Went home, popped in the third disc since it said there was a JMS commentary on it. Sure enough, it's still there even though I know the long tale about JMS getting screwed with Crusade and also the commentary.

I haven't watched a complete episode...yet. I work nights, so I've only been up for about 30 minutes. Once I get off work at 7:30am, I'll watch as much as I can.

[Satai Delenn]

Enjoy the Marx Brothers and get Crusade soon .You know my local Best Buy jacked up the price I paid 43 bucks plus tax for it on the day that it was released .When I went in to pick up some ink and looked at the dvd section found Crusade they had jumped the price 60.00 by the time you added tax.

[David Panzer]

I bought Crusade this past Friday. I'm watching the episodes in JMS' preferred order, and have 1 more episode to watch. My next post in this thread will be longer, but it will be my feelings about watching Crusade for the first time.

The short, short version- excellent series, but "War Zone" sucked donkey balls

[Anders]

I think War Zone is one of the two best episodes in the entire series, together with Each Night I Dream Of Home. I don't understand why some people don't like it. My least favourite episode was Patterns Of The Soul.

As for the series I think it had great potential. It certainly wasn't perfect, but it had the right actors, the right universe, and a great background story. I think some of the episodes were too unfocused though. I wish they had brought the story along a bit faster, instead of having one-off episodes that had no specific meaning for the next episode. The one thing I really didn't like about the series was the music. I've watched all the episodes 2-3 times now, and I can never get used to Evan Chen's music.

With B5's music, and a more focused B5 like arc, the show would have been really amazing. I'm sure it would have gotten there though, if it just had gotten past the first season still alive and kicking.

PS I first watched the series in JMS' preferred order, and then in the normal DVD order, and I prefer the normal DVD order. I feel the series moves along more nicely and smoothly then.

[Garibaldi's Hair]

Thing is Anders ... B5 started off with lots of separate self contained episodes in order to introduce the characters and situations, and the universe itself. It wasn't until mid-season 3 that B5 moved more into "serial" rather than "series" mode ... and not until season 4 that it went all the way to produce a whole season that moved from one epsiode straight into the next.

Crusade was trying to bring in new fans as well as keep the old B5 fans happy, so it had to begin by introducing everything that was already familiar to B5 fans, for new viewers' benefit.

With hindsight, we can see the little touches and (what we thought were) throwaway lines of dialogue in season 1 of B5 that had impact two or three seasons later. We were never given the chance to see that happening with Crusade, so they do look like unrelated, throwaway lines of dialogue or whatever.

Another difference between Crusade and B5 was that JMS was not allowed to develop the story of Crusade's first season in the way he originally intended because of TNT's interference.

I am one of those who much prefers the original 5 episodes (with the grey uniforms) to the ones made after TNT first put the show on hiatus and insisted on changes. The only change that was worth it was the uniform change, that grey was just ... well ... pants.

In particular, whilst I quite enjoy War Zone for what it is, Racing The Night is a far better episode, and would have made a far superior opening for the show as a whole.

Just my $0.02.

Oh ... and I love Evan Chen's music

[Anders]

Thing is Anders ... B5 started off with lots of separate self contained episodes in order to introduce the characters and situations, and the universe itself. It wasn't until mid-season 3 that B5 moved more into "serial" rather than "series" mode ... and not until season 4 that it went all the way to produce a whole season that moved from one epsiode straight into the next.

I was sold just a few minutes into The Gathering the first time I saw it, and absolutely loved the first season. I was a bit uncertain about Sinclair leaving the show, but of course it worked out fine. Even if I really like Crusade, I never had a similar feeling for that show. I'm very disappointed that it got cancelled though (whatever way it happened).

In particular, whilst I quite enjoy War Zone for what it is, Racing The Night is a far better episode, and would have made a far superior opening for the show as a whole.

I really enjoyed listening to JMS talking during Racing The Night, but I don't think it would have worked well as a first episode. It's action filled and has a decent story, but it doesn't set up the show well. Perhaps it's too action filled, too unclear in what it wants to do. Even if JMS pointed out that he thinks it would be a more subtle way to start the series, it was also interesting to hear him criticise the episode towards the end.

Oh ... and I love Evan Chen's music

No point in debating this, because we'll never come to an agreement. For me it was the one big turn off in the entire B5 universe ever. I love all five B5 seasons, I like Crusade and Legend of the Rangers, and all the B5 movies (although River of Souls would have been one of the worst episodes of B5 had it been included in the series). I loved the actors in all the series/movies, and the original B5 music, the CGI was cool, and the arc is just amazing.

My list of worst things about B5 (incl.everything from the B5 universe):

1. E. Chen's music
2. Too much knowledge about the future of the universe during the B5 series
3. Time travel (even if it happened only once, and was extremely important)

I can't think of anything else I didn't like. My list of positive things is too long to write.

[David Panzer]

Ok, I just finished watching all 13 Crusade episodes. All I can say is "Damn that was good."

Evan Chen's music considerably improved from "A Call to Arms" which sounded like the instrumentalists in a Noh play had too much sake. I expected to see a Japanese demon holding a Naginata floating by the Excalibur. In the Crusade series, the music had more melody but still maintained the unique exotic flair which seperates it from Franke's material, which was brilliant.

Watch "A Call to Arms" first, then "Racing the Night". It works as a first episode, since it's not a typical first episode where everyone has their predictable introduction like in "War Zone". War Zone, in my view, would have worked better as an episode where Gideon reflects on how they began whilst they're going on to another mission as his thoughts, or reviewing his log before sack time even though it still would seem cliche.

The acting was excellent. Gary Cole only had 1 scene where I thought, "Hey it's the guy from Office Space", which was his lounging in the tubeway tunnel.

It was bitter-sweet watching quality episodes knowing it would get better as time went on but not allowed to. But since I'm a Cubs' fan, what else is new?