Babylon 5 Novels and Graphic Novels - at Mongoose

[Jan]

While JMS is the creator of B5, Warner Bros. owns the rights to B5. If JMS uses the B5 logo in or on his script books, he would be violating copyright even though he created the series, characters, logos, etc.

Minor correction-he'd be violating WBs trademark if he used the B5 logo, not copyright.

In the realm of Open-Mindedness, this is actually a realm inside the Negative Zone, WillieSAH's approach is appropriate.

Yes, if you're already interested in reading them in the first place. Most of the discussion has been whether folks are interested in the first place and why. One can agree or disagree with those reasons but nobody should attempt to tell another whether those reasons are appropriate or not.

Come on, anybody who's reading comics nowadays are not reading the monthly adventures written by their creators. Somebody's reading all those Buffy and Angel prose novels being published. I haven't, but somewhere out there in the Phantom or Negative Zone (choose your Universe) someone keeps buying them.

Yep, they do. But comparisons to any universe where the history hasn't been mapped out for a considerable period before and after the main events seen simply aren't apt, for the simple reason that those never had a canon to contradict. Comparing to the sagas on which B5 was modeled such as the Lensmen or Lord of the Rings would be closer, imo.

Thanks for the links, ZD.

Jan

[frulad]

Well, I'm not surprised that they're focusing on the Rangers for most of the books. From a gaming mindset - since these are being put out by a gaming company I'm assuming that's the default thinking amongst the editors - the Rangers are the easiest group to deal with within the B5 universe as they're important, but outside of Marcus, played a largely unseen (though felt) role in the course of events. You can tell Ranger stories that may briefly touch on the main show's story arc but don't infringe on it.

Still, the book synopsises (synopsi?) don't really ignite too much of a fire in me. I'm especially turned off by the "Marcus Cole: Ranger Cadet" one.

[Jan]

Still, the book synopsises (synopsi?) don't really ignite too much of a fire in me. I'm especially turned off by the "Marcus Cole: Ranger Cadet" one.

Synopses. Is that the one that talks about a Maddox Cole? I already can't figure out when/what that one's about. Marcus' brother was named William and he was Marcus' only brother according to 'To Dream in the City of Sorrows'. If they're referring to his father, that's also against what's in that same book, as his parents owned (ran?) the mining operation and their company was almost bankrupted during the Minbari war. I suppose it might have been an uncle maybe...

Jan

[Sigma]

Here are links to each book, synopses included.

Baptism of Fire

Birth of Heroes

Actions of Many

Visions of Peace

Ranger Dawning

You are missing Ashes of the Past

This book sounds by far the most interesting to me. It could be interesting to read about Dilgar War (and about Sinclair father). If i remember correctly from S1, he was a war hero in Dilgar War, right?

[David Panzer]

Sinclair said his dad served in Earthforce during the Dilgar War.

After reading the brief synopsis for each book, "Ashes of the Past" and "Baptism of Fire" both interested me, though I am a bit skeptical of a novel written by an actor.

The last one I read was by LeVar Burton, and I promptly returned that book to the public library 5 minutes after I started reading it. The best book I've read written by an actor: "If Chins Could Kill: Confessions of a B Movie Actor" by Bruce Campbell, and if you consider pro-wrestlers actors as well, then Mick Foley's books "Have a Nice Day: A Tale of Blood and Sweatsocks" and "Foley is Good: And the Real World is Faker than Wrestling".

2 of the 4 remaining novels, "Actions of Many" and "Ranger Dawning" are essentially set during what we saw on TV or on DVD during the B5 series. Therefore I won't pick up either book, no matter if they're well-written.

The book "Birth of Heroes" just mucks up Marcus' history, as stated earlier in the thread, so I won't pick it up.

And the remaining book "Visions of Peace" just leaves me confused. Did the synopsis mean to say "Interstellar Alliance"? If so, we know what happened to Centauri Republic since it was the latter half of Season 5. If they did mean to say "Earth Alliance", then when could it happen? The Centauri first claimed that Humans were lost descendants of the Centauri people, though that later turned out to be false. Not enough to start a war over. The Centauri were on good terms with the EA since first contact, trading with Earth, giving access to their jumpgates, and so on. I doubt that the Centauri's non-involvement in the Earth/Minbari war or Londo's advice to the general as shown in "In the Beginning" would start a war with the Centauri. In the pilot, Londo tells how the Centauri have literally become jokes, and that they're just feeding off the leftovers from Earth. A race like that is in no position to take on the Earth Alliance. If it's set after the B5 series, well, we have the Legions of Fire trilogy by Peter David for that.

So the books for me have a .333 batting average, 2 out of 6. In baseball, that's not too bad.

[manwithnoname]

One can agree or disagree with those reasons but nobody should attempt to tell another whether those reasons are appropriate or not.Jan

I think you misunderstood my meaning. People giving their reasons for or against reading the upcoming are great. All I'm saying is that WillieSAH is keeping an open mind about the whole thing, which I appreciate. I've already stated my position: I'm not interested in reading the novels. Reasons: work, exercise (weights/cardio), reading, and characters I'm researching for my future novel. I don't have time to give.

An open mind is a terrible thing to waste...and take for granted.

[Jan]

I think you misunderstood my meaning.

Apologies for misunderstanding. Funny, I did recognize a bit of close-mindedness in myself about these novels the other day. Most of them I'm simply indifferent to but I find that I sort of dislike Claudia writing about the time after she left the show. After all, if she hadn't made the choices that she did, that story thread would never have existed. Childish of me, perhaps, but there you are.

Jan

[Dr Maturin]

Now that's creative control.

[David Panzer]

Now that's creative control.

Who knew Ms. Christian is related to Triple H?

[ninjrk]

Sinclair said his dad served in Earthforce during the Dilgar War.

After reading the brief synopsis for each book, "Ashes of the Past" and "Baptism of Fire" both interested me, though I am a bit skeptical of a novel written by an actor.

Apologies for jumping in as a newbie on this thread. However, I've done some work with Mongoose (and before that, AoG) and interacted with JMS a bit based on that relationship so I hope you don't mind a few comments.

On this point, who knows how good CC's writing will be? OTOH, she might have some good insight into the character she played. OTOH, I haven't seen any writing of hers so she might be terrible. However, if you're willing to look at the Star Trek books both Andrew Robinson and JG Hertzler wrote some extremely well done books based on their characters so it can be done. Wheter it will be the case here is an open question.

Matt

[ninjrk]

You are missing Ashes of the Past

This book sounds by far the most interesting to me. It could be interesting to read about Dilgar War (and about Sinclair father). If i remember correctly from S1, he was a war hero in Dilgar War, right?

I can comment just a touch on this one, if you all don't mind. I've worked with Bruce a lot in the past, so I admit to being partial to him. His short fiction in some of the old AoG Babylon 5 Wars sourcebooks wasn't too bad but I haven't read anything close to this length from him. However, I can tell you that he has been scouring the existing B5 media to make sure he matches the established facts out there (you should have seen the lengths to find canon birth dates for some of the characters. . .). Bruce is a mite bit obsessive about sticking to the established facts, so that at least should be pretty reliable in the book.

Matt

[Jan]

Thanks for the information and for posting your thoughts, Matt. And welcome to the forum!

Jan

[ninjrk]

Thanks for the information and for posting your thoughts, Matt. And welcome to the forum!

Jan

Thanks. One more comment, if I may. As one of the anal-retentive researchers for a few incarnations of the B5 game properties, canon is my life. I confess to being one of those who refuse to discard anything that appeared on the show or in a JMS approved format no matter how little internal sense it makes.

That said, the novels should have the same canon reliability as any of the gaming products from Agents of Gaming or Mongoose as I understand they will go through the same Babylon Productions approval process (which honestly means squat since JMS isn't interested and hasn't been for years and Fionna is long gone). I would consider them secondary canon (in my mind, that means part of the official Babylon 5 universe so long as it does not conflict with anything that was seen on the show or in a specifically JMS approved book). Since JMS has expressed the unwillingness to discuss anything in his head with the license holders this means that said license holders are somewhat on their own. I'm not using that as a condemnation of JMS since I can easily understand why he doesn't want to give away interesting stories in the B5 universe that he might be able to use in an official sense. It does mean that the game guys are going to have to go their own way, using what they do have established as the framework.

I've talked with JMS about this at a con and got a very forthright answer; he doesn't much care what is in those products and will not be constrained by them in future projects. As a tiny example, back in the GROPOS game days he was very specific that EarthForce didn't have Marines, despite the GROPOS signing Corps cadences. Then the recently derailed movie synopsis came out with an EF Marine as a central character. There are plenty of examples like this; even in the show itself there are instances where things are described that directly contradict things seen elsewhere.

Now, since B5 seems to be pretty much dead right now outside of the game license, this isn't that big a deal. If a B5 project starts up again, all bets are off. Again, to his credit JMS has been forthright and said that he will sacrifice "facts" for story flow and plot so B5 will probably always have internal contradictions since JMS just isn't that worried about them. That's the main reason that nobody has dared flesh out the Crusade/LotR timeframe for fear of contradiction in an upcoming project. Since JMS won't give guidance in those areas, it's a bit of a bind. I haven't seen anything official from Mongoose (or unofficial, really) but I've noticed that their newer products are starting to directly discuss things like the Drakh in Crusade and the Hand, which leads me to suspect that they've decided it's highly unlikely that JMS will release a project on B5 for at least a few years and contradict them. Heck, we may never get additional information on either cancelled project, ever.

Put another way, for the next several years at least the game properties are likely to be the only "official" expansions of the B5 universe. I will be very suprised and disappointed if Mongoose starts sacrificing existing canon (i.e., the Rangers books) in their books.

Matt

[Jan]

That said, the novels should have the same canon reliability as any of the gaming products from Agents of Gaming or Mongoose as I understand they will go through the same Babylon Productions approval process (which honestly means squat since JMS isn't interested and hasn't been for years and Fionna is long gone). I would consider them secondary canon (in my mind, that means part of the official Babylon 5 universe so long as it does not conflict with anything that was seen on the show or in a specifically JMS approved book).

I find I like the idea of a secondary canon. That'd never occured to me before, thanks.

As a tiny example, back in the GROPOS game days he was very specific that EarthForce didn't have Marines, despite the GROPOS signing Corps cadences. Then the recently derailed movie synopsis came out with an EF Marine as a central character. There are plenty of examples like this; even in the show itself there are instances where things are described that directly contradict things seen elsewhere.

Not to contradict you, but there are plenty of references in JMS's posts to Marines which anybody could have found:

http://jmsnews.com/search.aspx?Start=1&query=Marines&sort=1

That said, yes, he's also been adamant that all he wants to be held to is what's been shown onscreen.

Jan

[ninjrk]

I find I like the idea of a secondary canon. That'd never occured to me before, thanks.


Not to contradict you, but there are plenty of references in JMS's posts to Marines which anybody could have found:

http://jmsnews.com/search.aspx?Start=1&query=Marines&sort=1

That said, yes, he's also been adamant that all he wants to be held to is what's been shown onscreen.

Jan

Apologies, I didn't expand enough. When we were asking specifically about Marines, he said EF didn't have them. We countered with some of those quotes. He was unimpressed (actually, a lot of that was Fionna at the time). End result, no EF Marines in the AoG products and, since that was the last dictate, no Marines in the Mongoose EarthForce one.

Trust me, it drove us crazy. One of the nice things about him backing off from the whole review process is you don't get these types of situations much anymore. When I wrote the history of the Technomages for Bruce's Technomage sourcebook, I figured there'd be some requested changes. Not a one.

Matt