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Sheridans favor to Londo - revealed?

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  • grumbler
    replied
    Sheridan needed to do nothing to get Londo the information, so there was no real "favor" owed here in the sense of someone going out of his way to pay it back. It was the kind of favor you do without expectation of reward, IMO. Londo, on the other hand, redeployed the Centauri fleet to find Delenn. that is the kind of favor you do to get a marker.

    Leave a comment:


  • NotKosh
    replied
    I think we are missing some info.

    1) The first favor was Londo owing Sheridan.
    That was for the information Londo needed about the Vorlon Fleet headed his way. (Falling Towards Apotheosis) So Londo owed Sheridan.

    2) As for the rescuing of Delenn, (Fall of Centauri Prime) then Londo cleared his marker with Sheridan. When he says "you now owe me a favor" I think that was wrong.

    3) In WWE, Londo frees Sheridan and Delenn, in exchange for help for Centauri Prime. There was no mention of favors (that I recall), but there was no need.

    Leave a comment:


  • grumbler
    replied
    Originally posted by mslulu
    BIGTIME SPOILERS! PLEASE DON'T READ IF YOU DON'T WANT THE CENT. TRILOGY RUINED FOR YA....
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    Actually, David Sheridan is in fact Keeper Free. At the end of the Centauri Prime books, we learn that Dr. Franklin can't remove the keeper. The only way it can "die" (or be removed) is if the drahk (parent / main sentient) is killed, in this case Shiv'Kala is the drahk in question, the one shown in Season 5 giving Londo his keeper. So, my understanding is that Shiv'Kala has a special connection with this particular keeper (as all drahk and their keepers do.) Once the main drahk dies, so does the keeper.

    Uncle Mikey (aka Garibaldi) ends up killing Shiv'Kala and delivers one of the best one-liners from the series. David is free.
    Further spoiler info:
    What is interesting is that when Delenn tells Sheridan that "David is safe" in WWE she is totally wrong, according to the book Out of Darkness for at that point David is off-planet but cannot be cured, and is anything but safe. It was not until 18 days later that Garibaldi showed that the death of Shiv'Kala would really free David. I think the difference occurs because JMS changed his mind on what would free David from the Keeper - or else that Peter David just got it wrong.

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  • mslulu
    replied
    BIGTIME SPOILERS! PLEASE DON'T READ IF YOU DON'T WANT THE CENT. TRILOGY RUINED FOR YA....
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    Actually, David Sheridan is in fact Keeper Free. At the end of the Centauri Prime books, we learn that Dr. Franklin can't remove the keeper. The only way it can "die" (or be removed) is if the drahk (parent / main sentient) is killed, in this case Shiv'Kala is the drahk in question, the one shown in Season 5 giving Londo his keeper. So, my understanding is that Shiv'Kala has a special connection with this particular keeper (as all drahk and their keepers do.) Once the main drahk dies, so does the keeper.

    Uncle Mikey (aka Garibaldi) ends up killing Shiv'Kala and delivers one of the best one-liners from the series. David is free.

    Leave a comment:


  • cornholio1980
    replied
    Originally posted by Joseph DeMartino
    2) From the above facts it is clear that between 2278 and 2281 Sheridan made good on his promise to Londo and had the IA intervene to help free the Centauri people from the Drakh, thus repaying Londo for saving Delenn's life all those years before.
    Well thanks for the answer, but I have to agree with Grumbler here... As far as I understood it in WWE2 Londo agreed to free Delenn (and Sheridan, wo disappeared anyway *g*), and in return Sheridan promised to help Centauri Prime. You could still be right of course, but I'm just not 100% convinced yet.

    Nevertheless, thanks for the info!

    Leave a comment:


  • Radhil
    replied
    Whoa. Never thought of it that way. And that does bookend the whole thing rather nicely.

    Leave a comment:


  • grumbler
    replied
    actually saw the "favor" business a bit differently.

    Sheridan owes Londo for helping save Delenn in 2262. He does help free Centauri Prime, but again has JUST been freed by Londo and so those two "cancel out" in favor for favor terms.

    So how does Sheridan pay back Londo? IMO, it is by rescuing Londo's reputation, by helping ensure that the Londo's story is told, in an ISN special documentary that is some 110 45-minute episodes long (plus four longer episodes).

    Remember Londo narrating the intro to "The Gathering?" The entire five years of the show is the story as told by Londo and added to by Sheridan. Why would ISN have the slightest interest in telling such a story? Could it be that they did so because they were pressured by the President of the Interstellar Alliance to do so?

    That is what I like to think, anyway. Sheridan stopping the Drakh on CP wasn't much of a favor - he would have done it even if he owed Londo nothing, because he was the kind of person who would opose the Drakh no matter what.

    Rescuing Londo's reputation, though, was something he would do out of a sense of gratitude, not duty.

    Leave a comment:


  • Joseph DeMartino
    replied
    2278: ("WWE Pt. 2", In the Beginning, Legions of Fire Trilogy)

    1) David Sheridan turns (b 2262) turns 16, receives Londo's gift. The Keeper emerges from the urn and siezes David. Under its influence he goes to Centauri Prime. (Deduction from Sheridan and Delenn's presense on CP in "WWE Pt. 2" and ItB, David's birthdate and reference to scandalous incident involving Sheridan's son in "The Deconstruction of Falling Stars". Confirmed by novels.)

    2) Sheridan and Delenn travel to CP in attempt to rescue David and are captured by Centauri forces. (In their cell, Delenn tells Sheridan, "Our son is safe, John. David is safe.")

    3) Londo drinks his Keeper insensible, then frees the Sheridans in return for their promise to help free his people. He asks G'Kar to kill him before the Keeper awakens to ensure that it does not rescind his order before they are off planet. ("WWE Pt. 2", confirmed in LoF) The Sheridans escape.

    2281 ("SiL"):

    1) Vir is emperor, the Drakh are gone, relations between the Centauri and the Interstellar Alliance are good enough that a Ranger can walk straight into the Imperial bedchamber unchallenged. Vir drops everything to travel to Minbar where he is an honored guest in the Sheridan's home. Davide Sheridan is training to be a Ranger, presumably Keeper-free.

    2) From the above facts it is clear that between 2278 and 2281 Sheridan made good on his promise to Londo and had the IA intervene to help free the Centauri people from the Drakh, thus repaying Londo for saving Delenn's life all those years before.

    At least that's how I've always understood the meaning of that favor.

    Regards,

    Joe

    Leave a comment:


  • funkymikemoses
    replied
    Originally posted by Joseph DeMartino
    Have you seen "Sleeping in Light"? If you have, the answer is there, though you may not have spotted it.* If not, you'll have to wait until you see that final episode.

    (* And if you haven't I can point it out. Was just trying to avoid spoiling you if you hadn't seen "SiL")

    Regards,

    Joe
    Point away joe!

    Leave a comment:


  • cornholio1980
    replied
    Of course I've seen it! Watched the whole show when it was aired first in Germany... so no harm there

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  • Joseph DeMartino
    replied
    Have you seen "Sleeping in Light"? If you have, the answer is there, though you may not have spotted it.* If not, you'll have to wait until you see that final episode.

    (* And if you haven't I can point it out. Was just trying to avoid spoiling you if you hadn't seen "SiL")

    Regards,

    Joe

    Leave a comment:


  • cornholio1980
    replied
    Thx! I have to admit that I'm not able to find out more about this favor just with the knowledge we get in the series (even with keeping WWE2 and ITB in mind), but I hope that the Centauri Trilogy will help to make it clear to me. Already very much looking forward to it...

    So again, thanks guys!

    Leave a comment:


  • Joseph DeMartino
    replied
    What constitutes Sheridan's repayment of Londo's favor is clear enough from the series alone if you keep "War Without End Part 2" in mind while watching "Sleeping in Light". In the Beginning and the Centauri novels (especially the latter) fill in many details, but the outlines of what must have happened are clear if you read between the lines of what we're shown.

    Regards,

    Joe

    Leave a comment:


  • Michael Malloy
    replied
    I'm not sure how to say this...the favor to Londo occurs, I think, within the B5 series. If I say any more, it would be a spoiler.

    Leave a comment:


  • cornholio1980
    replied
    Originally posted by OmahaStar
    No, it's really not revealed there ... No spoilers here, so you'll be fine
    Well actually, as I said, I hate loose ends, so I kinda would've preferred to know that this open question will be resolved in the Centauri Trilogy... anyway, thanks for your answer!

    Leave a comment:

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