TMoS is dead OFFICIAL THREAD

[DysfunctionalReality]

Well.

I vaguely remember have *some* reaction to the death of TMoS at some point. After several days of reading the various other reactions to the bad news on these forums, I completely forget what it was

Lacking anything even remotely close to resembling an insightful new perspective to share with the class, I can do little else but continue to lurk until I get bitten by the wisdom bug....

&@$%

[WorkerCaste]

JMS has gone on record to say that TMoS (as a story) isn't his anymore and he could only publish it in script form. But surely that would have applied to the original Crusade storylines too.

In addition to to what others have said, I'd point out another distinction here. TMoS was a delivered script. In specific, that is what the producers own. With Crusade, the vast majority was never a deliverable product for which JMS would've been compensated.

[colonyearth]

One question for the gathered masses.

Presumably (from what plot details that did leek out) TMoS was distilled from left over Crusade storylines.

JMS has gone on record to say that TMoS (as a story) isn't his anymore and he could only publish it in script form. But surely that would have applied to the original Crusade storylines too.

He could re-re build the basic plot points into something else. (A TV movie/Comic or Novel). Without infringing any rights to the now dead production.

On a related note, why can't WB just make B5 related TV movies like Call to Arms etc? They could use the original cast, cost next to nothing and be a big hit on dvd. It makes a lot more sense than trying to get together a big movie deal.

There are so many dangling plot threads that he could even do a sixth season. (Yes I know it sounds like blasphemy, breaking the rule of 5 but even Tolkein and Herbert had appendices longer than most novels. Why not have a Season 6 to plug in the gaps?)

I think TV is the natural home for B5.

TV to film convertions on the whole don't work, even Trek had to come home to television eventually.

JMS may not have the rights to that particular script without paying for them...but the basic story ideas behind can be easily reworked into another story. Take this to mean that Diane Baker and Colonel Joss are dead characters, but the original cast characters and explore the same story (aka leftover Shadow tech) in another way.

Recall that JMS is very determined to finish telling the CRUSADE story (not the one people think about when they think CRUSADE but the real story that was to take place, yet had not been revealed at 13 eps in...only alluded to).

That script, as it is, belongs to the twin idiots (Gottesman and Rosen), but the idea behind it belongs to JMS and his imagination. A new script that doesn't resemble TMoS in the least could easily be written, but could still deal with leftover Shadow tech.

One can only hope that a feature does still happen. B5 is ripe with big screen potential and epic in size and look that would fit onto a theatrical screen wonderfully!

Besides, if there are elements that are that important in the TMoS script, remember that whoever does any feature can still purchase the script from the twin idiots. So...it's not impossible to still use TMoS....just improbable.

Besides, we all know how good JMS is at reworking material when he has to. Usually, it ends up working out better in the end (except maybe for elements of S5).

So...have faith. A B5 feature will happen...eventually.

As for him publishing or releasing the TMoS script for us to read...I would expect WB suits to find a conscience and start making films because they're great stories and not just for the money first.

If he let that script out, we'd know what he has planned for the leftover Shadow tech...and JMS ain't about to let that cat out of the bag...not until he can do it his way.

CE

[Towelmaster]

Uh, Towelmaster, Tim Choate is very unavailable. He died a few months ago. Another tragic loss in the B5 family!

Your right. My Bad. I had a feeling that I was missing something when I wrote that post. Which is a bit stupid because I had a drinking-night with my friends here dedicated to his memory... :-(

Actually, I dismissed Robin Williams as Zathras because I thought you would all go "Oh NO PLEASE!!!!!"... ;-)

Anyway : Here's to all the unsung heroes of B5! <insert-toast-smiley-here>

[Shadow-Sentient]

I am rather relieved that TMOS is not being made at this time. Despite the amazing DVD sales, I just don't see it working right now. Especially if some of the same mistakes are made that were in "A Call to Arms".

For the film to work ... in my opinion ... you would need a very good soundtrack. This was severerly lacking in "A Call to Arms." I don't know what the plans were for soundtrack ... personally I would like to see Franke return but I'd settle for James Horner or someone of that prestige.
Furthermore, the script would need to harken back to Babylon5 during its heyday (Irony, Metaphor, Symbolism, Dynamics, Intensity, etc.) and not include hasty generalizations and unreasonably convenient characters. These elements ruined ACTA for me and some of the Crusade series. The actors were fine but the need to get from point a to point b by sacrificing believability created a lapse in the whole 'suspension of disbelief' bit for me.
I'm not knocking it. Babylon 5 is by far my favorite television show of all time but I was afraid that the finished TMOS product would scarcely resemble the show that I had come to love above all others.

Finally, the idea that 'A' list actors would be called in to generate interest is absurd. I understand that this is how things are ... but we have an ESTABLISHED series that has made Billions in DVD sales (I believe JMS said that himself ... the part about billions of dollars). If that doesn't scream that the fans want to see the actors in the roles that they have come to care for (as they did with Star Trek) then someone is not paying attention. No disrespect to studio execs (I know a few) ... they understand their jobs better than I ever could ... but sometimes a risk is necessary ... case in point: Star Wars. Sir Alec Guinness was the star power of that film. The rest of the cast ... unknowns ... and we all know what a horrible failure that film was. Now I know Star Wars is apples and B5 is oranges ... or is it the other way round? ... but I don't really wanna see President Tom Cruise Sheridan ... do you?

So, I can wait ... until it's done right.

[Michael Malloy]

Uh, Towelmaster, Tim Choate is very unavailable. He died a few months ago. Another tragic loss in the B5 family!

[tlsmith1963]

Well...my main hope for this is that having been so excited about the idea of a feature this time and being this close, that JMS will now take some initiative in making it happen instead of waiting for someone to come knocking at his door.

I personally, am glad this incarnation fell through. I had some serious misgivings about it. We had to fight to keep the cast and they had a terrible director attached...all of which stemmed from two idiots who were pretending to be producers but weren't..they were just wanna-be's. Had this incarnation gone forward, I fear it would've been wrought with problems and turned out to be poorly done.

I want a B5 feature, but I want it done the way I know and believe it can be done. I know B5 has the potential to be the next SW or better yet a LOTR in space...epic, sweeping, moving, and wonderfully, passionately crafted and envisioned. That's what I want for any B5 feature.

I want B5 to be given the opportunity to reach and even go beyond the incredible big screen potential it has inherent within it.

This film wouldn't have even come close...especially with producers who thought big name stars were needed and who thought Steve Beck was even a decent director.

I've told the War Council this and I truly believe it (as do Mira and JMS I think from what they've said)...a B5 feature will happen...one day. And it will happen when it's supposed to happen so it can be the wonderous film I know it can be.

Rest assured folks, some good did come from all of this. We know that we (the fans) were heard (because they ended up making the offers to the cast). And now we all know that JMS holds the film rights and that WB has no problem with him shopping a B5 feature around.

So buck up! We were heard, and hopefully JMS will now (after allowing his nerves to settle a bit) go out and actively seek someone who can help B5 make the leap the way it should make it.

Someone over at B5tv noted that if SERENITY comes out and does really well, that it could prompt WB to change their minds about the worth of a B5 film and they might want to do it, themselves. Or it could pull someone out of the woodwork to do it.

Yes, this is the perfect timing for B5 to make the leap to the big screen. I can only hope someone in the industry sees that fact and sees the incredible potential in B5 and gives it everything it needs to achieve that potential!

Faith (continues to) manage!

CE

If JMS didn't have the movie rights, I would be worried. WB would probably just sit on the rights if they had them. And JMS *did* say at the moderated newsgroup that our letters weren't just a complete waste of time. So even though we lost this battle, I have a feeling that our letters may have gotten WB's attention. Didn't JMS once say that there was a *second* B5 project being considered, too? Maybe that one is off the backburner now because of our letters, who knows?

Tammy

[Shr'eshhhhhh]

One question for the gathered masses.

Presumably (from what plot details that did leek out) TMoS was distilled from left over Crusade storylines.

JMS has gone on record to say that TMoS (as a story) isn't his anymore and he could only publish it in script form. But surely that would have applied to the original Crusade storylines too.

He could re-re build the basic plot points into something else. (A TV movie/Comic or Novel). Without infringing any rights to the now dead production.

On a related note, why can't WB just make B5 related TV movies like Call to Arms etc? They could use the original cast, cost next to nothing and be a big hit on dvd. It makes a lot more sense than trying to get together a big movie deal.

There are so many dangling plot threads that he could even do a sixth season. (Yes I know it sounds like blasphemy, breaking the rule of 5 but even Tolkein and Herbert had appendices longer than most novels. Why not have a Season 6 to plug in the gaps?)

I think TV is the natural home for B5.

TV to film convertions on the whole don't work, even Trek had to come home to television eventually.

[Joseph DeMartino]

Touching on SpooJunkys comments above, I too would love to see the script somehow, but I'm betting that will be next to impossible to do.

JMS retains the right to publish the script as a script, and to run off copies for sale at conventions. So he could presumably sell copies via a website if it seem worth the time and trouble, or publish the script in book form if a publisher saw a profit in it. If the B5 short fiction anthology isn't dead he could add it to that to plump out the volume. So I wouldn't dismiss the idea out of hand. It is certainly not impossible.

I seem to recall reading that Tom Sizemore's name came up when Stephen Furst appeared on Jerry Doyle's radio show and they briefly discussed TMoS. (And how both of them had been given to understand that the major roles were being recast and that the original actors would be offered cameos a la the original Major West in Lost in Space.) It wasn't clear to me from the brief summary I read if in naming Sizemore they were passing on a rumor, pulling a name out of the air or talking about a real option, nor do I recall his being associated with any particular role. But I'm relying on my rapidly-failing memory here, so I could be wrong. "Replay hazy, ask again later"

Regards,

Joe

[KaCHING64]

You have any of those links you can share?

The only one i knew of was Mira's comments shown here...

http://www.darkhorizons.com/news05/050225b.php

Love to read some of those other news clips if possible.

Try this one...

http://www.greatlink.org/dcisV2.asp?url=http://www.greatlink.org/shownewsitem.asp?item=4320

KaCHING

[Milkman]

You have any of those links you can share?

The only one i knew of was Mira's comments shown here...

http://www.darkhorizons.com/news05/050225b.php

Love to read some of those other news clips if possible.

[KaCHING64]

Did I miss something?

Was Tom Seizemore's name one you just pulled out of the air at random, or was he ACTUALLY considered as a replacement for our own Bruce B?

If it is the latter, well I could certainly see Tom as an Earthforce officer alright, but as Sheridan II? Err, no way kiddies. Not even close. If that is the way the casting was going then I am glad JMS 'pulled the plug'.

I cannot verify the source, but someone quoted Mira Furlan at a con in Missouri saying that Tom had been cast in the film (no confirmation that it was the Sheridan role, but I think it was inferred as such), but ran into legal troubles by recently trying to falsify a urine test (apparently required under the terms of his probation). So he's looking at an all-expense paid vacation in the Robert Downey Jr. suite in the LA County Jail and was unavailable for production which allegedly contributed to the reasons for shutting down production.

I have my yahoo news alerts set to pick up anything containing "Babylon 5" or "Straczynski" and a couple of German hits as well as a UK hit and a US hit reported this story.

Further, if we're going to muse about recasting the roles (just for silly fun), how about the following?:

Sinclair: Mel Gibson
Sheridan: Russell Crowe
Ivanova: Sigourney Weaver
Delenn: Julianne Moore
Lennier: Jude Law
Londo: Ian McKellan
Vir: Tom Hanks
Garibaldi: Gary Sinise
G'Kar: Jeremy Irons
Zack: The Rock
Dr. Franklin: Denzel Washington
Lyta: Milla Jovovich
Talia: Sharon Stone
Kosh: David Carradine
Lochley: Angelina Jolie
Marcus: Viggo Mortensen
Zathras: Robin Williams
Bester: Gary Oldman
Morden: Ben Affleck (just so I can see his head on a pike)
Draal: Sean Connery
Byron: Orlando Bloom

One would think the above would be A-list enough for WB...

Your mileage may vary.... have fun playing along!

KaCHING

[Towelmaster]

I could image seeing Anthony Hopkins as Draal though... and if Tim Choate would be unavailable then how about Johnny Depp as the Zathras-family? He played completely loopy in Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas... Depp and Hopkins, hmmmm that could have been a nice combination. "I ate his communicator with a nice fruitjuice"...

Everything falls down when it comes to replacing Peter Jurasic or Andreas katsulas of course, they could never have been replaced. Ever...


Anyway : I'll see if I can find the link again, but I read today that Sizemore was indeed in the picture for playing Sheridan(..>!.!>..!>), However, he tried to fake a drugstest and because he was on probation and failed the test he had to spend some time in jail. Exit Sizemore...

I'll see if I can find the link for you tomorrow.

[DGTWoodward]

I, too, was disappointed to hear the news of the film's demise. But I would rather have no B5 film than the wrong B5 film. Can someone please explain to me how Tom Seizemore is a bigger star than Bruce Boxlietner?
KaCHING64 - (former studio accountant, Sony Pictures Ent. 1989-1997)

Did I miss something?

Was Tom Seizemore's name one you just pulled out of the air at random, or was he ACTUALLY considered as a replacement for our own Bruce B?

If it is the latter, well I could certainly see Tom as an Earthforce officer alright, but as Sheridan II? Err, no way kiddies. Not even close. If that is the way the casting was going then I am glad JMS 'pulled the plug'. Who would have played Delenn...Rosie O'Donnell?

Arnold Schwartzenegger as Lennier?

Clint Eastwood as Vir?

Courtney Cox as Ivanova?

Patrick Stewart as Garibaldy (sp deliberate..)

Carl Weathers as Dr. Franklin?

Ellen DeGenerres(sp?) as Lyta

Danny DeVito as Londo?

Noel Coward as G'Kar?

Hey, now that would make a real movie, Quick!!! That UK movie company on the phone right now. This is some kind of cast!!!!

[SpooRancher]

At least we aren't getting another &quot;River of Souls&quot;

Much sadness, pain, distress. Also much joy that we are not getting another "River of Souls". That would be bad. Only good thing from "River of Souls" was Capt. Lockley in lingerie. Not much else good about it.

And, it appears that jms has pulled the plug on something that could conceivably have been worse.