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  • Lorien4k
    replied
    Yes and as I said, we know the shadows did venture to sol.
    While i can agree with the points you made that prove the idea falable, I also urge the potential for a miniseries or book series.
    Human basis can easily be made. keep in mind the vorlons did make direct contact with the younger races in the past as did the shadows, hence the cliche' angelic figures fighting the equally cliche' demons appearing almost uniform in the sentient races' histories and mythilogical belief systems.

    This opens up the potential for mabey, a parralelling story of one of the medievil prophets being in contact with the vorlons or shadows, or possibly even another flash-back-story-telling as we got in "In The Beginning".

    But you are right, a movie would definatly only attract the fiver community, which as large as we might be, we don't grow in any signifigant fashion let alone possess the potential of adding large groups of new lurkers with no background info on the saga.

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  • Capt.Montoya
    replied
    As usual you remember better...

    Now I also dimly remember that Lyta's flashback to her transformation-empowerment by the Vorlons also showed some proto-humans in the background...

    Thanks for the clarification and additional information Joe. I have never read the short stories myself (I still hope that they collect them in book form one day).

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  • Joseph DeMartino
    replied
    JMS has stayed away from the history of Epsilon 3 and the Great Machine in all post-B5 projects.

    The first Psi-Corps novel says something about the Vorlon influence, but from what I remember it implies that their visits don't extend as far back as 1000 years.

    Actually I think that the Vorlons only noticed the humans after Sinclair/Valen travelled back in time, making them realize how pivotal they would be in the future.
    I'd have to recheck the books, but I think the Vorlon "listening post" is established on Venus well over 1,000 years ago.

    In the J. Gregory Keyes short story "The Nautilus Coil" it is established that the Vorlons were collecting proto-Humans for genetic experimentation millions of years ago, and presumably doing the same with other races. It turns out that telepathy and intelligence don't naturally go together, so it took the Vorlons quite a long time to produce any results. The Human Teeps who first emerged 100 years before the start of the final Shadow War were the last and best of the Vorlon experiments in sentient teeps. Keyes presumably based his story on the same background material that JMS gave him for the Teep Trilogy, and it appeared in the official "B5 Magazine", so I believe it is "canon"

    Regards,

    Joe

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  • Vir
    replied
    I've not read any of the books or graphic novels. Do any of them give any history of the great machine on Epsilon 3 ????

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  • Capt.Montoya
    replied
    Cast in the past

    The possibility of the previous Shadow war has been mentioned elsewhere in these forums.
    As mentioned there the big problem is that there are no humans, an all-alien story may not have enough appeal, or as said by others: "the public is not ready for it."
    You could argue that Valen/Sinclair is human, but he doesn't look like it, and Zathras is also quite alien. Even if Sinclair is human he has to act as a Minbari, and his stay as "ambassador" in Minbar prepared him for it.

    Personally I don't think that JMS ever intended to tell that story, it's just part of the background for the story of Babylon 5, likely to exist only in outline form in JMS's notes or his head. He has stated that he worked out the major points of the story a million years to the past and a million years to the future. That's what allowed those cryptical comments to be part of the story and give it an epic feel (as well as providing a framework for the S4 finale).

    The novel "To Dream In The City Of Sorrows" gives a bit of the Sinclair/Valen story. He must have "hooked with a bonehead" in the past to have the children of Valen, but there are hints about what happened to Catherine Sakai too, which are complemented by one of the comics that tells the end of B4 (I won't spoil that for you, I read the summary at the Lurker's Guide).
    The first Psi-Corps novel says something about the Vorlon influence, but from what I remember it implies that their visits don't extend as far back as 1000 years.
    Actually I think that the Vorlons only noticed the humans after Sinclair/Valen travelled back in time, making them realize how pivotal they would be in the future.

    The main reason I don't think the B4-Shadow War will be told is that it doesn't have a broad appeal. I think that for WB to fund a new project they will want something that can appeal to people unfamiliar with B5, as well as to fans old and new. The last great war seems more like something that would appeal to the established B5 fan base, it could require way too much exposition/explanation for non-fans to understand.

    Which doesn't mean that I wouldn't like to see or read that story, just that I think it's very unlikely.

    Leave a comment:


  • Lorien4k
    replied
    Originally posted by Joseph DeMartino

    G'Kar and Lyta are only gone for two years, then they return in time for the only major untold story that could involve most of the original cast - The Telepath War.
    I think we are forgeting about 1 major story delibratly not told in B5...

    The last great war.

    The one 1000 years before the main story takes place. We know that records are all but non-existent. We know kosh and the vorlons meet up with the minbari at this period, we also know sinclair will be there as valen. We can even see our buddy zatharus. That and becuse of the lack of records, we have an open possability for a great story. All we know of the time is that the war is fought feircly, but won by the good guys. Sinclair uniforms the minbari (brings back B4) (his body never found after his reported death) (he hooked up with a bone head), many races are wiped out (strieb/drakh re-introduction) and the main story of prophecy and such begins. Morden, in season 4, also makes several cryptic comments such as "some parties may take advantage of our position, they did before, a thousand years ago.." these hint at another substantial plot between the vorlons and shadows back then. We can even have a glance at earth back in the medievil times being affected by vorlon/angelic influence... after all, we know the shadows made their way to sol with at least 2 ships, an the teeps came about due to vorlon genetics experiments.

    Of course this would be the only untold story that could sail based on the casting theory. The "great burn" war in the future can not include any original cast except possably ivonavaz and marcus depending on which theory JMS holds true.

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  • Jan
    replied
    So, please, someone, bring up the quote where JMS said it won't be a series. I'd like to see it.
    From his Sept 27 post "Update from JMS":

    To the many questions that have arisen here of late...yes, as I mentioned before, there is the possibility of something Babylon 5 related on the horizon,
    but again I don't want anyone getting excited until we know if either one of
    these two projects is going to actually come to fruition. We should know where
    this lands in the next few weeks. The only thing I will say is that they're
    not print projects, so if you were to assume it's for TV or film you wouldn't
    be too far off...but that neither of them are series. And that's all I'm going
    to say about them for now.
    hth,
    Jan

    Leave a comment:


  • DF2506
    replied
    Hmm. I have to ask. Nobody else has asked...unless I read over it....

    Where did JMS say that the new B5 project was NOT a series?

    I looked back at his "annoucement" of the project and it sure sounds like he's doing a lot of writing. And he says nothing about it not being a series. In fact, he doesn't say what the project is.

    And you know...JMS won't be doing a third season of Jermiah so that actually would open him up for a SERIES.

    So, please, someone, bring up the quote where JMS said it won't be a series. I'd like to see it.

    DF2506
    " And I'm sure everybody else would to."

    Leave a comment:


  • Joseph DeMartino
    replied
    I've just read a quote from JMS stating that he had such a large cast for Babylon 5, that for the films, he had to rotate the cast for each one so everyone got their fair share. Seeing who was in previous films may indicate who might be in the next one.
    He was talking about the TV movies, which were a kind of "bonus" for the actors and which were produced during the series run on extremely restricted budgets. (Which, along with time constraints, which limite the scope of the story he could tell, meant he couldn't afford to have the whole cast in any of the TV movies. Since everybody got paid more for the TV movies, which were negotiated as separate one-shot contracts, the wasn't really much more money available in production terms than there would be for any two regular episodes.)

    If the new project is a feature film or a mini-series (really the only way to handle a story like the Teep War) these constraints would not apply. JMS would have the money for every character/actor he wanted and more screen time to give each of them his/her due. (Don't forget, the "two hour" TV movies only amounted to about 92 minutes of screen time. A "four hour" mini would double that, while a feature film could easily be a full 120 to 150 minutes, even a bit longer.)

    So I don't think that the cast list from the films produced circa 1998 can tell us much about the new project.

    Regards,

    Joe

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  • DDC2004
    replied
    DDC Admin from the isnnews.net message board here.

    Joe DeMartino has been answering the same repeating fan questions and correcting the same repeating fan misinformation on many message boards for many years now, so he can be forgiven if he gets a bit cranky at times. Joe just happens to have a better archive of information than the rest of us.

    Seriously, regarding Crusade's lackluster performance thanks to TNT interference:

    Despite what some fans keep printing, Crusade was not a failed series and Crusade was not cancelled for low ratings. Crusade was dead months before the first episode was broadcast, thanks to a major falling out between JMS and TNT Atlanta execs who continued to meddle with the scripts.
    Posts related to that can be found in the JMS Posts archive.

    In reality, those 13 episodes were not meant to be a series, that was ALL there was. It was like printing a book of a deceased popular writer with missing chapters.

    Instead of 22 episodes there were only 13 COMPLETED episodes. The various continuity errors and all that were a result of the remaining episodes not being there to fill in the spaces. Several now unavailable scripts showed the direction of where the show was going- it was NOT about finding a cure for the plague.

    The Rangers movie had low ratings thanks to being up against a playoff game and being broadcast on a Saturday night.

    As to new product in the Babylon 5 universe, sales of the DVD's have gotten WB's attention. We already know that anything in the works is not a book andi won't be a television series.

    So we wait for JMS' official announcement and be happy that something IS happening in the universe of Babylon 5.

    As to what actors and actresses are available, as long as it doesn't take 10 years, there are enough of them still around, including Mr. Koenig.

    See ya.
    Last edited by DDC2004; 01-15-2004, 03:37 PM.

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  • Vir
    replied
    Re: casting comments and worries away

    Originally posted by Capt.Montoya

    In this day and age of word processors any writer worth his salt should know that spell and grammar checkers are not perfect and systematically commit some mistakes and miss some errors. Don't sell yourself shortly, anyone can learn to spell correctly (even with the complicated spelling of the English language), and no one should depend on machines to do it for them.
    Spelling is important but not absolutely essential. Most work is proofread and spellchecked several times over at both ends. Several publishers re-type work anyway. The important thing is punctuation. ( so that your work makes sense )

    I've just read a quote from JMS stating that he had such a large cast for Babylon 5, that for the films, he had to rotate the cast for each one so everyone got their fair share. Seeing who was in previous films may indicate who might be in the next one. As Joe said previously, it may well be about the telepath war but thats only the story. It has to grounded somewhere, to be based around a certain place or certain characters.

    Leave a comment:


  • Capt.Montoya
    replied
    casting comments and worries away

    I personally won't start speculating about who might be in the project without knowing what it is...
    A film would be great, but I'd love to see some Crusade continuation, or more of the Legend of the Rangers, and that would be still part of the B5 universe but an entirely different set of options for cast.

    BTW, I also missed the Star Wars reference so thanks for explaining it, guess I didn't hear your tone of voice or see you making the gestures that would indicate it clearly.
    Or to say it without sarcasm: written communication is limited, and not all of us are hard-core fans of all filmed sci-fi. (Personally I don't like Star Trek and I've lost a lot of respect for Star Wars.)

    In this day and age of word processors any writer worth his salt should know that spell and grammar checkers are not perfect and systematically commit some mistakes and miss some errors. Don't sell yourself shortly, anyone can learn to spell correctly (even with the complicated spelling of the English language), and no one should depend on machines to do it for them.

    But going back to the question, even if I don't want to speculate too much:
    I think Jerry Doyle would jump at the chance, he's been trying to get other B5 projects started several times... that is, unless he is too proud to accept that his previous efforts were for naught just as JMS predicted.
    Andreas Katsulas willingness to reprise his G'Kar role in the Rangers pilot also bodes well for his accepting a role in the new project. I think that Peter Jurasik would also love to play Londo again.
    In fact I think that all major cast member of the original series would love to play those roles again.

    Thus the only thing to worry about right now is that they don't have a standing contract that prevents them from participating, and without having a start date for the new B5 project we can't really speculate much about it.

    Leave a comment:


  • Vir
    replied
    The whole reason I began this thread was to discuss who could be brought back from the original cast, that could be used for the new project.

    ( whether it is a film, tv movie or series, or mini series - that was not the point ) The point was who might be in it.

    Thank you moelawn, I must admit I'd forgotten G'kar was in Legends untill joe and yourself pointed it out. Chances are that he would definately feature in any new production. I've been a fan of his since Commander Tomalok the Romulan in star trek next gen. It would not be the same without him.

    BTW I know loads of writers that can't spell to save their lives. Along the same lines I know several cartoonists that can't draw at all. The skill is learning to use a certain part of your brain to be creative, not to be able to spell every word in the dictionary. ( especially in this day and age of word processors )

    I don't doubt for a moment Joe that you know what your talking about and JMS is not working on a B5 tv series at the moment. I was simply pointing out that you can never say never. If the right circumstances arose, even if it was in five years time, I'm sure JMS would jump at it. Its what he does best and he knows that better than us.

    Also the Jedi quote wasn't for your benefit. I only explained it to clarify.

    What you must remember,Joe, is that in other countries we are a bit behind with American shows. In fact I never saw B5 at all when it was aired originally in Britain. It wasn't till years later that I was able to see it start to finish, several times over, on the sci-fi channel. For example the third season of Enterprise started last night, which I'm sure you had ages ago. We're also waiting for Battlestar Galactica which I know has begun already over there.

    All I ask is that you are a little patient with us while we try and catch up with the rest of you. I come here to this site to do exactly that, but its not nice being patronised and called a 12 year old just because i'm slightly over- enthusiastic about finding B5 fans I can talk with.
    Last edited by Vir; 01-06-2004, 09:27 AM.

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  • moelawn
    replied
    Cast worries

    In reply to Vir'observation: "G'kar gone - I think he left with Lyta ( been a long time since I saw series 5 ),"

    Andreas Katsulas, the fine actor who plays the role of G'Kar, in fact reprised the role in Legend of the Rangers. At one point in this story, G'Kar alludes to his trip with Lyta, from which he has returned by the time of the events in Legend.


    "That grandson of yours could wreck the empire, just by strolling through it."

    Tiberius to Livia, wife of Augustus, speaking of Claudius, in the BBC production of "I Claudius"
    Last edited by moelawn; 01-04-2004, 07:44 PM.

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  • ManInTheMiddle
    replied
    "Can't we all just...'get along'?"*







    * quoted by Jack Nicholson in his portrayal of the President of the United States in "Mars Attacks"

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