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  • Kloreep
    replied
    Thanks for the link, Paul; that's an interesting site.

    Though the creator did get some facts wrong, I believe... for instance, about Keffer:

    It was pretty obvious that the character wasn't going as he planned and was ejected into sub-space
    I think JMS has said he introduced Keffer at WB's request for a "hot-shot pilot" and always planned to kill him off at the end of the season.

    Edit: And now that I've got to the end, don't get me started on the common, and mistaken, statement that JMS collapsed a whole season in to 4 and threw things together for Season 5. It was just 4 episodes, people... if the Byron arc is bad, it's simply because it's bad.
    Last edited by Kloreep; 02-20-2005, 06:44 PM.

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  • grumbler
    replied
    Originally posted by AislingGrey
    Hardly! Who is the cast was _not_ a stage-trained actor, besides maybe Jerry Doyle and Bruce Boxleitner? Those who were stage-trained include: Andreas, Peter, Mira, Rick Biggs, Jason Carter, Claudia, Julie Caitlin Brown, and of course Michael O'Hare. I'm sure I've left some out, but that's a good start.
    Further, JMS made a point in his commentary of saying that he sought stage-trained actors and crew because he knew his requirements were more stage-like than TV-like.

    There are probably all kinds of reasons Michael O'Hare left the show that we'll never know about, but I wouldn't say it's because he was mainly a stage actor. Isn't it in the commentaries somewhere that JMS says that he prefers working with theatre people, even to the point of those who painted the sets, crafted props, etc.?
    Yep, but the contemporaneous interviews with Katsulas, Fuerst, and Jurasik make it clear that O'Hare was extremely uncomfortable in his TV role (even if they did not mention his name, it is clear who they meant). This is not a dig on Michael O'Hare - after all, he was magnificent in his return role - it is merely a recognition that he was not going to be the person originally conceived in JMS's story.

    I think it worked out well. I cannot imagine how JMS could have kept up his interest in a "story already told."

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  • grumbler
    replied
    Originally posted by Jan
    So while JMS has said that he knew the last scene from the beginning, the road there was pretty flexible. My impression was that that last scene he spoke of was actually the Station being destroyed, anyway. The scene described for Ladira's vision in 'Signs and Portents' clearly parallels the actual scene in SiL.
    Yep. I used to think he meant the Delenn final scene as well, but from what he has said in the meantime (espcecially on the DVDs) it is clear that the final scene he referred to was the destruction of B5 at the hands of its owners.

    Pity. I loved the idea that he forsaw Delenn as the bereft lover from the start.

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  • grumbler
    replied
    Originally posted by The_One
    Would that have meant that Delenn's great great great Grandmother would have been Delenn?

    That's some mind-bending inter-breeding there
    No, I don't think Delenn would have gone back in time, thus creating the sad seperation between Delenn and her love that we saw.

    Delenn, in the Straczinskiverse, had to pay for her decision to avenge the death of Dukhat. One of the ways she hd to pay was to be bereft of the company of the person she loved more than life itself - not through death (which could be tolerated) but through the workings of the very fate she herself had counted on as a strength.

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  • Paul
    replied
    http://www.webcs.com/b5/neverwas.html



    THE BABYLON-5
    THAT NEVER WAS

    (New information...updated on 11/11/04...I kid you not) The Babylon-5 project started as a dream, both in reality and in fiction. It was to be the first science fiction television show planned out 100% ahead of time, with a beginning, middle and an end. In November of 1998, it completed its run of five years with the episode Sleeping in Light. It was not an easy journey. So many things got in the way of production. Those that watched the series from day one, followed the rumors, and participated in the struggle to keep B5 on the air, know that not all things ended up the way they were supposed to. Those newcomers to the B5 story (fans at the start of season two or later) may not know the intricacies of what Babylon-5 was meant to be and what Babylon-5 became. This website is meant to be a permanent monument to the Babylon-5 that, in all probability, is lost forever.

    EDIT: Most of copyrighted material from another site removed including 3 full posts. Please only post enough to show people that the link would be interesting enough to follow. --Jan
    Last edited by Jan; 02-20-2005, 03:58 PM.

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  • AmyG
    replied
    I'd have to disagree in large parts with all of this, bakana.

    Yet, at the same time, most actors seem to at least aspire to try out all 3 venues and most TV & Big Screen actors spend at least some percentage of their time on live stages, even if they aren't "On Broadway".
    This is a sweeping generalization that just isn't true. The overlap is certainly there between film and tv actors (anyone in Hollywood who's doing tv would be happy to be doing film), but not so much with theatre actors. It's a _very_ different animal, and not all actors are cut out for it. The only camera-based acting that shares quite a lot with the live stage experience is daytime drama, otherwise known as "soaps": there, you have lots of memorization required (pages and pages of dialogue, rather than a couple of lines for each take as on tv/film), and shooting is very often done chronologically. So it's much more like doing a stage play.

    Many theatre actors aspire to television and film, but I would not say that _most_ film and television actors either aspire to, or in fact do, spend time on the stage.

    I'm not sure how often Broadway people find themselves in front of a Camera, but I suspect it's fairly often.
    It all depends. Some never do. In real theatre towns, like New York or London, there are many stage actors who never do any television or film, because they're getting plenty of work doing what they love best. Then again, in New York particularly, you have a large core of soap performers who also do theatre. Whether they primarily consider themselves stage actors or soap stars is a personal thing, but many of them pay the rent by doing a soap, and do theatre because they can't _not_ do it.

    I've tended to ascribe some of the other cast members comments about O'Hare to having grown up in different "Neighborhoods".
    Hardly! Who in the cast was _not_ a stage-trained actor, besides maybe Jerry Doyle and Bruce Boxleitner? Those who were stage-trained include: Andreas, Peter, Mira, Rick Biggs, Jason Carter, Claudia, Julie Caitlin Brown, and of course Michael O'Hare. I'm sure I've left some out, but that's a good start.

    There are probably all kinds of reasons Michael O'Hare left the show that we'll never know about, but I wouldn't say it's because he was mainly a stage actor. Isn't it in the commentaries somewhere that JMS says that he prefers working with theatre people, even to the point of those who painted the sets, crafted props, etc.?

    Amy (who leans towards musical theatre and Gilbert & Sullivan, personally)
    Last edited by AmyG; 02-20-2005, 07:50 PM.

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  • bakana
    replied
    Even on the DVD commentaries some talk of his stage experience leaving him perhaps unprepared for the part of a show Lead.
    There is also a (more or less) traditional friction between Hollywood actors and Broadway actors.
    And between Movie Actors and Television actors.

    Looking from the outside in, it seems to be a "my Job's Harder than His Job, so I must be a Better Actor" sort of thing.

    Yet, at the same time, most actors seem to at least aspire to try out all 3 venues and most TV & Big Screen actors spend at least some percentage of their time on live stages, even if they aren't "On Broadway".

    I'm not sure how often Broadway people find themselves in front of a Camera, but I suspect it's fairly often.

    I've tended to ascribe some of the other cast members comments about O'Hare to having grown up in different "Neighborhoods".

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  • Jan
    replied
    Originally posted by Firebird
    However, this ending would have meant a radically different Sil as Delenn would not be there, having already gone back in time with Sinclair. So who would have been there to greet the Minbari sunrise? The title suggests that the final setting of the scene (being bathed in light) would be the same, but to whom would it have applied?
    I think people have an impression sometimes that the series was planned out in much more detail than it actually could have been the case.

    A good example is Susan Ivanova. I think most people would agree that her mother's suicide and her estrangement from her father were pretty key to her character, especially in the first season. In the Babylon 5 Bible (May 20, 1993), though, it says in part:

    Her parents are scientists working on the Io Planetary Sciences Obervatory off Jupiter. Their relationship is cordial, but cool. They were against Susan joining Earthforce, believing that her first, best destiny was science...and because they worried for her safety.
    So while JMS has said that he knew the last scene from the beginning, the road there was pretty flexible. My impression was that that last scene he spoke of was actually the Station being destroyed, anyway. The scene described for Ladira's vision in 'Signs and Portents' clearly parallels the actual scene in SiL. The honor guard of ships on either side as the shuttle left the Station in SaP was described in the script but not seen in that episode, I always assumed due to time/budget constraints for the effects.

    It also seemed as though Sleeping in Light might have been a second choice for title. JMS wrote:

    My titles are often in a state of flux; "Signs and Portents" was originally titled "Raiding Party" in my notes, as the B5 FAQ notes somewhere. So it may change, but for the time being, in my notes for the series, the last episode of year five has this note: Title? -- "Farewell" or "Sleeping in Light."
    For really big changes, though, one should compare the series Treatment (September 1, 1988) to the series bible to what ended up on the screen. Like the part about Kosh being married...

    Jan

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  • LytaaaarGh
    replied
    I agree with the reasons given above, but also think that JMS planned for a Sheirdan character from the start. The reason for this is JMS's obsession with '3s' - that 3 is a sacred number - especially for the minbari.
    So, imo there had to be a 'one who was', 'one who is' and 'one who will be' therefore heavily suggesting there would have to be 3 characters.

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  • Firebird
    replied
    Originally posted by bakana
    Well, I met him a few years back at a Con and, in person, he came off as a very warm and giving person.
    Friendly and considerate.
    He answered even the "dumb" questions with a thoughtfulness and warmth that turned "Dumb" into "Great Question".
    He also had the very Young fans sit up front so they could see what was going on and tried to make sure most of them got to ask a question as well instead of letting the adults dominate the Q&A session.

    The fact that, by the End of the session, it was apparent that O'Hare was very ILL at the time made his performance (at the Con) even More impressive.
    He walked within 2 feet of me on his way out of the room and was visibly Trembling and Pale.
    Most people in that condition would have begged off.
    He showed up and made it all the way through the session in spite of his personal discomfort.
    Mmmmm, It's not the 1st time that I have read these kinds of things about MO'H. Even on the DVD commentaries some talk of his stage experience leaving him perhaps unprepared for the part of a show Lead. It may be that this 'reclusiveness' was just him trying to get his lines down without disturbing others?

    It is also true that time does change a person. My fella, LightStorm, had read all these things about him before, but was still eager to meet him. In the end, he was charming, polite and giving for the fans (though he did pace nervously and non-stop!).

    My take on where B5 was going to go if MO'H had stayed echoes alot of the points made above.

    Didn't Sinclair 'marry' Delenn early in the season, along with those meaningful stares and little red pieces of fruit? It would clear up with certainty exactly how Sinclair's DNA got into the Minbari bloodlines, and just who there would have been for him to mate with back then, Valen being a hybrid and all.

    However, this ending would have meant a radically different Sil as Delenn would not be there, having already gone back in time with Sinclair. So who would have been there to greet the Minbari sunrise? The title suggests that the final setting of the scene (being bathed in light) would be the same, but to whom would it have applied?
    Last edited by Firebird; 02-20-2005, 02:06 AM.

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  • bakana
    replied
    somewhat reclusive and, in the words of one interview, "creepy".
    Well, I met him a few years back at a Con and, in person, he came off as a very warm and giving person.
    Friendly and considerate.
    He answered even the "dumb" questions with a thoughtfulness and warmth that turned "Dumb" into "Great Question".
    He also had the very Young fans sit up front so they could see what was going on and tried to make sure most of them got to ask a question as well instead of letting the adults dominate the Q&A session.

    The fact that, by the End of the session, it was apparent that O'Hare was very ILL at the time made his performance (at the Con) even More impressive.
    He walked within 2 feet of me on his way out of the room and was visibly Trembling and Pale.
    Most people in that condition would have begged off.
    He showed up and made it all the way through the session in spite of his personal discomfort.

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  • JDSValen
    replied
    If my memory is correct, Delenn was supposed to be male, so when she went through the chryslis she would turn not only human, but female. Mira's makeup in "The Gatherning" is obviously more male looking, and they were going to dub her dialogue with a male voice, but it sounded bad so they just stuck with her original dialogue, and when B5 went to series the makeup was changed to make her an obvious female.

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  • redone
    replied
    I seem to remeber delenn was orginally going to turn male in the very early B5 palns, althouth I can't remeber where.

    Could have been a dodgy rumour.
    ________
    RT100
    ________
    TOYOTA HILUX PLATFORM SPECIFICATIONS
    Last edited by redone; 03-07-2011, 09:14 PM.

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  • SpooRancher
    replied
    I also remember reading some things about where other cast members, although they liked O'Haire, still thought of him as somewhat reclusive and, in the words of one interview, "creepy".

    O'Haire was good in his role, I don't deny that, but from just about everything I read, he was not the kind of personality that would have been able to keep up the show for 5 years, at least not without driving everyone around him crazy.

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  • JDSValen
    replied
    A lot of what happened on B5 was not JMS' original intentions, but when he was writing the 5 year arc he realized that the possibility of getting the arc made exactly how he wrote it would have been impossible, therefore he wrote in "trap doors" as he called them to adjust for what happened.

    I believe that he said somewhere that about 80-85% of what he originally invisioned B5 to be made it to the screen, which went far beyond his intentions.

    My personal theory regarding Sinclair is that he never intended that character to go away. If you look at "Chrysalis" just about every character had a way of not returning (Delenn could have been recast due to the transformation, Garibaldi could have died and then gotten replaced, etc.) except for Sinclair. I've always had a feeling that JMS wouldn't or couldn't tell us the whole truth about Sinclair leaving, not that I'm complaining because the show turned out fine, it'd just be interested in seeing how B5 would have turned out.

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