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  • #16
    <<Or having a radio program in Jerry Doyle's case.>>

    I would think Jerry gets paid for that...
    Recently, there was a reckoning. It occurred on November 4, 2014 across the United States. Voters, recognizing the failures of the current leadership and fearing their unchecked abuses of power, elected another party as the new majority. This is a first step toward preventing more damage and undoing some of the damage already done. Hopefully, this is as much as will be required.

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    • #17
      Nah... He's just doing it to get elected...

      Just Kidding! <ducks>

      Anyway, I like to think all these people comment and show up at conventions because they liked making the show.
      "En wat als tijd de helft van echtheid was, was alles dan dubbelsnel verbaal?"

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Towelmaster
        Nah... He's just doing it to get elected...

        Just Kidding! <ducks>

        Anyway, I like to think all these people comment and show up at conventions because they liked making the show.
        Exactly. I'd hate to think they were like Shatner.
        Recently, there was a reckoning. It occurred on November 4, 2014 across the United States. Voters, recognizing the failures of the current leadership and fearing their unchecked abuses of power, elected another party as the new majority. This is a first step toward preventing more damage and undoing some of the damage already done. Hopefully, this is as much as will be required.

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by WorkerCaste
          LightStorm, it wasn't clear from your post whether you realized that it isn't just B5. Not paying for interviews and commentaries is pretty much the industry standard as far as I know. Pretty much everytime you get a DVD with those features it is through the generous efforts of the cast and crew. I do recall hearing of a couple of instances where a big-name person negotiated some payment, but I haven't heard that often at all.
          That's exactly as it is, I didn't know! Well, now you come to mention it I do recall reading that a certain European muscleman got a paid a small fortune (which I believe he donated on) for a commentary on SUM REMEMBERANCE, but I thought this a one off, not status quo. It's a real eye opener to me as they (particularly the commentaries) are my favourite features. I will treasure my B5, B7, Ridley Scott Richard Donner, Bryan Singer and Red Dwarf commentaries all the more!

          http://www.lddb.com/collection.php?a...er=dgtwoodward
          Yes, I still collect Laserdiscs!!
          47" Phillips 1080p 46" Samsung 1080p Toshiba HD-30E (2 both Multi Region) PS3-80G 120G BR Multi-Region Maidstone MD-BR-2102 Sky-HD Freesat-HD Pioneer DVL-909 CLD-D925 CLD-2950 (AC3) CLD-D515 CLD S315 Yamaha ADP-1 Meridian 519 Pioneer 609 (DD/DTS) x 2 Speakers & subs Jammo M/S Pioneer Technics Sony Eltax Akai Aiwa

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          • #20
            It is a shame, I agree. They went to all that trouble to go and interview Mira Furlan, and what does she say? About 10 or 20 seconds worth of material over all the sets? If that. I feel there was a wasted opportunity there.

            Andreas is also notably missing - was there ever an official reason for his lack of involvment, beyond the speculative "I'm not doing it if I don't get paid" line?

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            • #21
              I have a problem with the idea that the actors are not paid for the interviews they did in a studio somewhere.

              Obviously the original interviews contained a great deal more that the tiny sound bites snipped into the brief season round ups.

              I don't think it's a matter of money or time spent. The interviews were done. The actors participated in them regardless of pay. Why waste the materials?
              Michael Malloy

              Never forget:

              Moscow; Beslan 2004
              Kosovo: 1999, 2004
              New York City: September 11, 2001
              Smyrna: September 9, 1922

              http://www.hri.org/docs/Horton/hb-title.html
              Armenian Genocide in Turkey: 1915-1917
              http://www.armenian-genocide.org/

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              • #22
                Andreas

                JMS posted about that. Andreas refused to participate without compensation on princople - which is his right. Peter also did so until the last set, IIRC.

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                • #23
                  Re: Andreas

                  Originally posted by mjb
                  JMS posted about that. Andreas refused to participate without compensation on princople - which is his right. Peter also did so until the last set, IIRC.
                  I can't say that I blame them then. I now have fuller picture than I had before. As a result of this, I can see both side of the issue.

                  I, like many others, get a great deal of pleasure for the interviews and commentaries as included in the boxed sets. I would surely miss them if they were to disappear. However, I totally agree that the stars of the show should have been paid for doing these things.

                  Let me put it another way...(I know it doesn't strictly apply because WB movies is virtually unconnected from WB television - but the principle sure fits) these actors are the same folks that WARNER BROTHERS want to, effectively, disown so that they can bring in 'names' to launch a BABYLON 5 movie. The cast that everyone knows and loves, that have continued to support B5, building even more appreciation for the show via these interviews and commentaries - and with no real additional recompense (which WB will of course not hesitate to capitalise on). THIS CAST - after all that more-or-less FREE promtional work, is the cast that WB want to ditch.

                  That makes me so livid!!!

                  Who the hell do these suits think they are?!

                  Why is it that those that can, do (ie JMS, Whedon, Kotto and many others) and those that can't, try to boss around those that actually can. What a topsy-turvey arrangement.
                  http://www.lddb.com/collection.php?a...er=dgtwoodward
                  Yes, I still collect Laserdiscs!!
                  47" Phillips 1080p 46" Samsung 1080p Toshiba HD-30E (2 both Multi Region) PS3-80G 120G BR Multi-Region Maidstone MD-BR-2102 Sky-HD Freesat-HD Pioneer DVL-909 CLD-D925 CLD-2950 (AC3) CLD-D515 CLD S315 Yamaha ADP-1 Meridian 519 Pioneer 609 (DD/DTS) x 2 Speakers & subs Jammo M/S Pioneer Technics Sony Eltax Akai Aiwa

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                  • #24
                    They've got MBA's and cash.
                    "Books and ideas are the most effective weapons against intolerance and ignorance."
                    -- Lyndon Baines Johnson, February 11, 1964

                    -- "Gun's don't kill people, rappers do" The GLC

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by WorkerCaste
                      As Jan pointed out, residulas themselves are deferred compensation, so you can't really count those.
                      Well, yeah, I know that is the theory, but as we all know this is just the theory. "Residuals" are, in fact, the payments made to the actors for anything over the original salary payments, and are not guaranteed in any case. They differ not at all from any "piece of the action" compensation made to someone not in the SAG.

                      The additional residuals that might result from increased sales are, as you pointed out, another possible form of compensation, albeit indirect and speculative. That's kind of the enlightened self interest approach. Do what you can to make a better producte and increase sales. There's also a self-interest aspect with regard to putting your face, as an actor, in front of more people. Publicity, if you will. It might also be considered a demonstration of willingness to go the extra distance in supporting a project. All told, though, I can't think the incremental residuals or the possible PR bump would be terribly large.
                      Yeah, i thought of mentioning the value of vaing one's name in front of the public again as an idirect benefit of the increased DVD sales, but didn't want to muddy the waters.

                      What you and jan have said confirms what i thought - that the actors were compensated to some extent through increased DVD sales (and so increased payments).

                      My understanding is that guest stars (like Koenig) did the interviews gratis, though, as they did not share in the profits from DVD sales. Quite nice, and quite telling, that so many actors and crew would do so.
                      I believe that when we leave a place, part of it goes with us and part of us remains. Go anywhere in the station, when it is quiet, and just listen. After a while, you will hear the echoes of all our conversations, every thought and word we've exchanged. Long after we are gone .. our voices will linger in these walls for as long as this place remains. But I will admit .. that the part of me that is going .. will very much miss the part of you that is staying.

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                      • #26
                        "Residuals" are, in fact, the payments made to the actors for anything over the original salary payments, and are not guaranteed in any case.
                        This is entirely wrong. "Residual" is not some generic term loosely applied to additional payments. Residuals are specific, defined payments governed by SAG contract and they absolutely are guaranteed, in writing, and paid out according to a scale negotiated between the studios and the Screen Actors Guild. It was precisely the difference in the way residuals are calculated and paid out for first-run cable vs. first-run syndication that led Claudia Christian to believe that the actors were somehow being asked to "give up" residuals or accept lower residual payments (neither of which the SAG contract would have permitted), which contributed to her decision to leave the show.

                        What Are Residuals?

                        Residuals are compensation paid for the reuse of a credited writer's work. When you receive credit on produced Guild covered material, you are entitled to compensation if the material is reused. It is important to understand that the compensation is for reuse, and not the original use. For example, if you are hired to write an episode of a network prime time television series, the compensation you are paid for writing services includes the episode's initial broadcast. However, when that episode reruns on a network, in syndication, or in any other market, the Company must pay you for that reuse.

                        Similarly, for theatrical motion pictures, the compensation you are paid for your script, either as a purchase or employment, covers the exhibition of the film theatrically, including all foreign theatrical releases. However, when your movie is released to other markets, such as videocassette or pay television, you are due residuals. ®2002 Writers Guild of America, west, Inc.
                        Residuals cover the resue of an actor's (or writer's) work by the studio beyond the original planned run of a series, a commercial or what-have-you. For broadcast (MAJOR* network and first-run syndication) the residual payments start out at a very high percentage of the original fee and then descend very quickly on a sliding scale until they run out. For first-run cable the payments start off at smaller percentage (of what is usually a smaller salary) and also decline with subsequent airings, but at a slower rate. Thus the same total amount of residual money will be paid out over a longer period of time with cable residuals than with broadcast, but the total paid remains the same. That's why people sometimes have residual checks of a few dollars or even a few cents coming in years after they worked on a project. (Seinfeld built an episode about Jerry's character receiving tiny checks for a Japanese TV commercial he had done awhile before.)

                        There is some kind of very minimal DVD residual formula, but all of the Hollywood unions failed to negotiate additional compensation for contributions to extras, or to increase or extend the residual formulas in their most recent agreements. (Residuals for actors don't kick in at all until a certain point - either units sold or gross dollar sales, I forget which - is met. SAG was able to get this threshold lowered so that its members get start earning residuals faster, and they were also able to increase the rates paid on TV movies released on DVD.) Writers are paid a flat fee per DVD for permission to "publish" their scripts, whether or not the scripts appear on the disc, but it isn't much, either. SAG the Writer's Guild and the Director's Guild all pressed very hard on the DVD compensation issue in the last round of talks, and all ran into a stone wall. So they mostly used "concessions" on the DVD issue to pick up gains in other areas.

                        Next time around (in 2008?) expect them to try again.

                        See www.sag.org and www.wga.org for more details.

                        (* "Major" broadcast network meaning ABC, NBC, CBS and - since around March 2003 - Fox. The WB and UPN are covered by either the first-run syndication rules or the basic cable rules as a concession to help the fledgling networks get on their feet. Writers and actors stand to lose from a shrinking market if new networks fold, so there is a certain logic to this. But it shouldn't have taken as long as it did to move Fox into full-fledged broadcast network status.)

                        Regards,

                        Joe
                        Last edited by Joseph DeMartino; 02-18-2005, 08:14 AM.
                        Joseph DeMartino
                        Sigh Corps
                        Pat Tallman Division

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Joseph DeMartino
                          This is entirely wrong. "Residual" is not some generic term loosely applied to additional payments. Residuals are specific, defined payments governed by SAG contract and they absolutely are guaranteed, in writing, and paid out according to a scale negotiated between the studios and the Screen Actors Guild.
                          Since this does not contradict what I said, the rest of your post does not apply, and I am entirely right and not entirely wrong.

                          No one gets "guraranteed residuals" because no one can gurantee how many tiomes an actors work will be reused. All they are guaranted is that IF the work is reused, they will get residuals.

                          Residuals are, as I said, the moneys paid to actors over and above what they get from their direct salary (you say that residuals do not account for all of the payments over and above, but I would argue that you are making a distinction without a difference).. More DVD sales means more residuals, though the question remains how much compensation the actors were getting for their work in promoting DVD sales (which is what the interviews and commenataries amounted to).

                          My key point was that the regulars had an economic reason to do the commentaries, unlike the techs who received poayment for their work, thus countering the "if the sound guys got paid for their work on the DVDs, why didn't Bruce?"
                          I believe that when we leave a place, part of it goes with us and part of us remains. Go anywhere in the station, when it is quiet, and just listen. After a while, you will hear the echoes of all our conversations, every thought and word we've exchanged. Long after we are gone .. our voices will linger in these walls for as long as this place remains. But I will admit .. that the part of me that is going .. will very much miss the part of you that is staying.

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                          • #28
                            Exactly. I'd hate to think they were like Shatner.
                            As anyone who was in the cast - or on the crew - of Babylon 5 will tell you, they _did_ enjoy working on the show. Besides the obvious quality of the material, the set was apparently a very friendly one, and an efficient one (we've often heard that most people on the set were home by 8 PM every night).

                            However, just because they enjoyed working on the show does not mean that they are _fans_. _We_ are fans. _We_ spend money on DVDs, t-shirts, going to cons, etc. But if you were an actor on a project that you enjoyed, I hardly think you'd run around spending your time freely promoting that property, just because you liked it so much. You'd still expect to be paid for con appearances, broadcasts of the property, and yes, extra work done on behalf of promotion of the property (i.e. DVD extras).

                            The two things (liking the work and wanting to be fairly compensated) aren't mutually exclusive, and doesn't make someone "like Shatner."

                            Amy

                            (p.s. - for what it's worth, I agree with Michael - I'd love the have the _entire_, unexpurgated interview segments filmed for the DVDs. But unfortunately Hollywood doesn't work like that. Editors edit, and someone in a suit somewhere decides how long that feature should be, and there you have it.)
                            Last edited by AmyG; 02-20-2005, 01:18 PM.

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                            • #29
                              <<The two things (liking the work and wanting to be fairly compensated) aren't mutually exclusive, and doesn't make someone "like Shatner.">>

                              Shatner doesn't show up because he likes Star Trek. Boxleitner doesn't show up for the money alone.

                              TM: Anyway, I like to think all these people comment and show up at conventions because they liked making the show.

                              ZD: Exactly. I'd hate to think they were like Shatner.

                              I don't want to put words in the venerable Towelmaster's mouth, but I think he meant "in addition to the payoff."

                              Even so, it's something of a double standard to proclaim your enjoyment of something but refuse to participate unless you are "fairly" compensated. That's why I don't buy these athletes' claims of "loving the game" and bullshit like that.
                              Recently, there was a reckoning. It occurred on November 4, 2014 across the United States. Voters, recognizing the failures of the current leadership and fearing their unchecked abuses of power, elected another party as the new majority. This is a first step toward preventing more damage and undoing some of the damage already done. Hopefully, this is as much as will be required.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                As far as I am concerned, If your professional opinion regarding a piece of your work is callled for, be it at a convention or as DVD extras, then you should be compensated for it.

                                There seems to be a distinction between 'Cast members who loved the show' and 'Those just in it for the money'. Why is it so impossible to be a person that loved working on the show (and walked away from it at the end with some real life-long friends) but still being expected to be paid for any additional work done to promote and/or suppliment that original product? Seems perfectly fair to me. And when you consider the lack of interview material actually used (as previously stated) either newly shot or pre-existing, it makes you wonder just what did happen to the rest of it.

                                I do have to say that, aside from the commentaires themselves - my personal favourite - the rest of the extras were pretty poor, 85% of them being a touch pointless. The music suite and the gag reels, were probably the best, non-commentary, extras on offer. When you consider the price of the boxed sets (per piece) you feel that there should have been much more.
                                http://www.lddb.com/collection.php?a...er=dgtwoodward
                                Yes, I still collect Laserdiscs!!
                                47" Phillips 1080p 46" Samsung 1080p Toshiba HD-30E (2 both Multi Region) PS3-80G 120G BR Multi-Region Maidstone MD-BR-2102 Sky-HD Freesat-HD Pioneer DVL-909 CLD-D925 CLD-2950 (AC3) CLD-D515 CLD S315 Yamaha ADP-1 Meridian 519 Pioneer 609 (DD/DTS) x 2 Speakers & subs Jammo M/S Pioneer Technics Sony Eltax Akai Aiwa

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