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The Score: If not Franke then who?

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  • #31
    Originally posted by colonyearth
    {snip}In this case, Beck is a hired gun to fulfill a producer's vision, so the main decisions will remain in the hands of JMS and the others most likely. This is why I'm very leary of why they named Beck and why I think it's a bad call on the part of the new producers (who are most likely the ones who hired him). B5 needed a true director who's out to prove something but who could remain true to B5 and its vision while bringing something vast and special to the table...not a "yes" man...which even by Beck's own words in interviews I've read with him, he is. He takes what he's given and does what he's told and never asks for bigger or better. This, to me, is not good.
    Any chance that they will bring in a deputy director to do the human scenes with Beck doing the FX scenes?
    Andrew Swallow

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    • #32
      If you mean a co-director...I would seriously doubt it. The one hope I have is that when (notice I said "when") the original cast does return...at least they know their respective characters so well, they won't need tons of direction. That, of course, still leaves the problem of new actors and characters who will need direction and help with the B5 universe. Perhaps when the original cast returns, they can help any newbies with a lot of it.

      But a good director, to me, was and is still an absolute necessity.

      CE
      Anthony Flessas
      Writer/Producer/Director,
      SP Pictures


      I have no avatar! I walk in mystery and need nothing to represent who and what I am!

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      • #33
        Originally posted by colonyearth
        In all honesty, Beck (if he's trully slated to direct) is a director for hire only and will most likely not have a great deal of control over such things as composer or other major issues. He's there to do the job of a director and plan the film out visually...that's about it. In most cases like this, the director is not that good or is hired because he's new and needs some time to prove himself.
        Yes, this is the impression I got - that JMS was not figured to get along with a competing "vision," and so they hired a technician to carry out JMS's vision. The question is whether or not JMS has the vision to visualize on the scale of a feature film. On that rests the quality of the film, if they have a mere technician directing.

        Rarely does this bring about an impactful film, with a few obvious exceptions (Spielberg was a director for hire on JAWS and went that extra couple of hundred miles to prove himself worthy). Beck, on the other hand, is an FX man, who directs because there's more money in it...a vastly different beast...much like Stuart Baird and many Directors of Photography who aren't very good directors, except on some technical level, but who direct to get a bigger paycheck (many of them admit this freely -- which pisses people like me off, who really want to direct because we're directors).
        But we have always hung our hopes on JMS for an impactful film, no? In that case, the less presence the director has, the better (so long as things get on film properly enough to be turned into a good film during Post). If this film (or any film in the B5iverse) depends on a director for its vision and impact, it is already a failure in my eyes.

        In this case, Beck is a hired gun to fulfill a producer's vision, so the main decisions will remain in the hands of JMS and the others most likely.
        Whoo-hoo! I like the way that sounds!

        This is why I'm very leary of why they named Beck and why I think it's a bad call on the part of the new producers (who are most likely the ones who hired him). B5 needed a true director who's out to prove something but who could remain true to B5 and its vision while bringing something vast and special to the table...not a "yes" man...which even by Beck's own words in interviews I've read with him, he is. He takes what he's given and does what he's told and never asks for bigger or better. This, to me, is not good.
        I think you are probably asking too much to have a director 'with vision" who is willing to subordnate his vision to that of a mere writer, even if the writer is also a producer. I like the idea of a director who is a Straczinski lackey, because then the responsibility for the success or failure of the film will be right where it belongs.

        I know directors don't like to hear that, but PJ pretty much convinced me that director/producers are asses when it comes to the works of others - no matter how commercially successful.
        I believe that when we leave a place, part of it goes with us and part of us remains. Go anywhere in the station, when it is quiet, and just listen. After a while, you will hear the echoes of all our conversations, every thought and word we've exchanged. Long after we are gone .. our voices will linger in these walls for as long as this place remains. But I will admit .. that the part of me that is going .. will very much miss the part of you that is staying.

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        • #34
          The only problem with what you're saying, grumbler, is this: there is no such beast as a good film with a "technical director" as you call it. You have to have a director who knows how to direct, not just put cameras in a spot and say, "act." Just look at the new SW films with Lucas directing for how well that works.

          The only times a "hired gun" director has turned out a great or even good film is when that hired gun turned out to be a talent no one expected or a newby trying to prove him or herself (such as Spielberg or even Nick Meyer on ST II, who had directed a good film before that and showed the talent, unlike Beck).

          By his own record, Beck is not a natural talent nor a director who's trying to prove his talent. He's a hired gun in the worst sense...a bigger paycheck. And such directors do not make good films..even with visionaries behind them like JMS. It's just not how things work. What you're saying sounds good, but simply is not reality.

          To have a good or great film...you need a director with a vision and the talent to direct (which is more than just putting a camera somewhere and saying, "go!") People who don't make films don't understand what goes into it. The director must have a vision for the film and a passion to make a great film. A good director, who knows how to direct, can marry that vision with someone like JMS' and make it even better...that's how a real director works...and they know how to draw out the best performances from any actor...which again, Beck has no clue how to do.

          For a clue on how a director works and can make a difference, watch MULHOLLAND DRIVE sometime and pay attention to the actress and how she reads her lines in the film when she's rehearsing with her friend and then how she performs them once she's been directed at the audition...it's a glimpse into the difference a real director can make.

          Beck...simply and undoubtedly...is a terrible choice and causes me to be concerned for this film.

          As I've said, if TMoS turns out to be a good film, it will be in spite of Beck...not because of him.

          CE
          Anthony Flessas
          Writer/Producer/Director,
          SP Pictures


          I have no avatar! I walk in mystery and need nothing to represent who and what I am!

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          • #35
            The director is only one of the elements that go into making a film.

            The B5 series did well enough with directors who may have not had quite the same vision or experience as some of those in the film industry, though they were competent enough to get the job done and help make B5 the success that it was.

            Can we say the music, acting and visual presentation was consistantly top-notch? Not even close.

            I think this really does amount to a matter of personal taste; what is it that defines a good movie? Does the directing have to be brilliant/near perfect for a film to succeed in telling a story? It really is all a matter of opinion.

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            • #36
              Originally posted by DysfunctionalReality
              The director is only one of the elements that go into making a film.

              The B5 series did well enough with directors who may have not had quite the same vision or experience as some of those in the film industry, though they were competent enough to get the job done and help make B5 the success that it was.

              Can we say the music, acting and visual presentation was consistantly top-notch? Not even close.

              I think this really does amount to a matter of personal taste; what is it that defines a good movie? Does the directing have to be brilliant/near perfect for a film to succeed in telling a story? It really is all a matter of opinion.
              Film is a director's medium. Historically, directors for hire have made crap...period. The best they usually turn out is mediocre.

              Opinion only weighs the most minute amount on it.

              CE
              Anthony Flessas
              Writer/Producer/Director,
              SP Pictures


              I have no avatar! I walk in mystery and need nothing to represent who and what I am!

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by colonyearth
                Historically, directors for hire have made crap...period. The best they usually turn out is mediocre.
                CE
                ....in your own opinion.

                http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=opinion
                http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=fact

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                • #38
                  Personally, I'd take his very well argued opinion over your weak and understated facts any day.
                  Radhil Trebors
                  Persona Under Construction

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by DysfunctionalReality
                    The B5 series did well enough with directors who may have not had quite the same vision or experience as some of those in the film industry, though they were competent enough to get the job done and help make B5 the success that it was.
                    But TV and film are completely different. With a TV show, you can get away (to an extent) with less visionary directors because, e.g. in the case of B5, a story is being told over the long term using a number of different directors - with those who best capture the creator's vision tending to direct more episodes (Mike Vejar, Janet Greek etc.).

                    With a movie you have basically two hours or so to grab your audience by the hair and pull them into your story.

                    I think this really does amount to a matter of personal taste; what is it that defines a good movie? Does the directing have to be brilliant/near perfect for a film to succeed in telling a story? It really is all a matter of opinion.
                    I disagree. Telling a story is not all a movie is about - for a movie to really work it has to have some sort of "WOW!" factor. That element that makes you walk out of the theatre thinking "That was great, I want to see that again". Which is why some of your no-brainer action movies can be huge box office hits - they might have no actual story whatsoever, but the action set pieces or FX give them that "WOW!" factor in spades and puts bums on seats night after night.

                    If a movie just tells a story without that factor, then it will be just that - a story - which is not why I go to the theatre to watch a movie. Doesn't matter how good that story might be, the end result is inevitably underwhelming.

                    A TV show can get away with that becaue not every episode needs to have that "WOW!" factor to keep its audience watching from week to week.

                    Besides, I know nothing about film-making and colonyearth does it for a living, so I am happy to defer to his greater wisdom in these matters.

                    Last edited by Garibaldi's Hair; 02-11-2005, 03:03 AM.
                    The Optimist: The glass is half full
                    The Pessimist: The glass is half empty
                    The Engineer: The glass is twice as big as it needs to be

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                    • #40
                      I'm obviously not an expert, but I always got the impression that JMS, for all his control, didn't want directors that were simply technicians. I remembered some posts talking about how he worked with directors, did a search, and found this gem.

                      http://www.jmsnews.com/msg.aspx?id=1-11601

                      In it he mentions writing mostly in master shots, and having the directors take it from there. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that we'll get good direction, but can't offer any real opinions since I'm not at all familiar with Mr. Becks work, his potential, or even if he's the final answer. I don't think, though, that you can have a great movie unless the director is at the very least pretty good.
                      "That was the law, as set down by Valen. Three castes: worker, religious, warrior."

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                      • #41
                        If Beck doesn't do the job the way JMS wants, JMS could fire him and take over.... just like Spielberg did with Poltergeist.
                        Flying around the room under my own power.

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