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  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Season 5 ain't the best season, but it had many very good episodes. And had the whole thing ended up at season 4, so many things would have been left unresolved. It finishes up the series very well, and it's still a better season than basically any season of any other series in my opinion.

    Now, what comes to continuing B5... that might not be a good idea, at least as a series. The fates of most of the main cast has been asserted, ending the series very well (Sleeping in Light is the most emotional, most touching piece shown in television, ever!). It might not be wise to start messing things up with a new series in which these same characters would play a major role (although B5 without Delenn etc really has the feel of something crucial missing ).

    But completely burying B5 is not necessary either. For example, movies could be made about the telepath war, Dilgari war (I've always wanted to know more about that one), and maybe even G'Kar's and Lyta's "expeditions" - and not to forget the Shadow War of the 12th century, and perhaps Valen's role amongst the Minbari after that. Hell, even about the "first contact" with the Centauris!

    So basically I feel the series was there for the time that it was, and was awesome. It was concluded in a fashion that somewhat defies a new major series with the same characters, but the universe still has some untold tales that could be told via movies. Of course, such movies don't come free, so most likely we won't be seeing much of them no matter how many of them we'd like to see

    As for Crusade... even though it wasn't a match for B5, I still would've liked to see it finished, definitely. It was still better than 95% of other series out there.

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  • z^3
    replied
    I find myself thinking about Season 5 in a few contradictory ways: good premise, generally good story, occasionally bad execution and a promise of what could have been but wasn't.

    I think it is this last one that most fans concentrate on: that the telepath storyline could have been enriched by the presence of the Ivanova character, that Season 5 feels like a 'bolt-on' to the story.

    It's safe to say that everyone can agree that the telepath arc would be *different* with the inclusion of Ivanova. But Better? Maybe. Was Ivanova's part in the arc what was expected (in terms of continuity)? Definitely.

    The second point (that Season 5 feels like a 'bolt-on') should come as no real surprise, nor is it a negative comment, given that JMS had to separate the storylines for S4 and S5 so that there could be a resolution in case the show finished with Season 4.

    Where I am slightly critical is in terms of some of the production values, notably the CGI and the 'realistic' feel of the show. While the CGI was up to its usual high-quality in terms of the actual graphics, I felt that the thought behind it (in terms of ship design, movement and realism) was lacking. The energy and general 'wow' factor that was there for me in (for example) Severed Dreams just wasn't present.

    And for me, while being an interesting and enjoyable arc, the Centauri story-line held more promise that was actually delivered. I particulary remember the scene where Alliance members are plotting to attack the Centauri - and the subsequent execution of said attack - it seemed a little 'plastic' and not wholly realistic.

    This is just my feeling from watching the show. Perhaps it's a sign of production fatigue after five seasons, or perhaps it's just my taste/perception...

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  • WorkerCaste
    replied
    I always come back to JMS's assertion that he was creating a novel for television. This really works for me, and it really means that you can't effectively compare season to season. Quite often, a book starts slowly presenting a variety of threads, some of which will prove to be crucial to the telling of the story, some of which are red herrings, and some which exist to highlight a character or illuminate a portion of the setting. Season 1 does this well. Afte the establishing chapters, you need to start building the story and concentrating more on those threads that will carry the plot forward. Seems a lot like season 2 to me. Now you're reaching the meat of the story. Plot rises to a fever pitch. The crisis is fully set. Season 3. Now it's a full rush to the climax. Season 4. Finally, novels will usually let the dust settle and give you a glimpse of what happened after. Season 5.

    Allowing for the requiements and challenges of TV, JMS created his novel. I know people who will skim the final chapters of books once the climax has been reached. Those people weren't as enthusiastic about season 5.

    Were I a writer I could probably draw the parallels in far more detail and use all the correct terms, but as a reader I can see them well enough.

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  • David Panzer
    replied
    Season 5 was a needed breather after the Season 4 bullet train. True, if everyone involved with B5 knew there would be a Season 5 (instead of being told 2 minutes to midnight), then it would be a very powerful closing act, not that it was a weak ending.

    Since I saw almost all of Season 1 in college and never saw the other seasons until the DVD releases, I never thought Season 5 was as bad as some make it out to be. I don't like comparing each season to the other, but if I had to, I feel Season 5 is similar to Season 2 in matters of the intro of a new CO, a similar rising of tension with the "mysterious raiders" attacking the Alliance.

    Yes, it never wrapped up every single thread. Life doesn't either, since once you understand everything, you're dead. The Star Trek and B5 universes are separate creations, but both share the same aspect that both leave room for more story. The focus won't be entirely on those who continue on the station itself, though it will be more than just a cameo appearance. That's why I've enjoyed the Del Rey trilogies. I wanted more, and the authors delivered masterfully.

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  • Spoo Junky
    replied
    I liked Season 5. It wasn't as fast paced as the other seasons, but it did touch on some of the issues that were raised during the first four seasons. Like after a war, when the rest of the world has moved onto other things, what happens to the people left behind - like the telepaths.

    I also really liked Day of the Dead. It just sort of appealed to me and I'm glad I got the DVD so I can watch it a few more times.

    And I'm keeping the Kleenex people in business, since I go through about a box during the last few episodes.

    Leave a comment:


  • grumbler
    replied
    Originally posted by Sigma
    For me 'how' is more important than 'what'. It's not what the story is but how it is told. And Season5 for most part is not a good storytelling.
    Not good storytelling? I never4 understood this complaint. It was not the best storytelling JMS had ever done, for sure, because as he admitted S5 was a late ad-on that was never intended as anything but a "finish what you started so we can move on to the sequel" effort. In a sense, the B5 movies represented better what JMS was involved in that year.

    But to call "The Paragon of Animals" not good storytelling? Absurd. This ep was one of the very best in the whole 5-year arc - maybe the best standalone ep of them all.

    Leave a comment:


  • KoshN
    replied
    Re: Can we just leave it alone?

    Originally posted by DawnTreader


    ...be honest, did season 5 work well?
    Whenever Byron was nowhere to be found, yes. The Centauri arc is reason enough to have the Season 5 DVD set. Lyta's growing powers were also of interest to me.


    Originally posted by DawnTreader
    ... and who really wanted crusade to continue?
    I did/do, though without TNT interference. I'd love to see that story continued in any way possible. Novels would be fine by me.


    Originally posted by DawnTreader
    B5 was good upto season 4 finale, then the general quality of the show went a little down hill....
    ...and then went back up again, as soon as Byron was gone.




    Originally posted by DawnTreader
    ... and crusade wont even get a spot in my DVD collection.
    Your loss. As far as I'm concerned, the existing Crusade episodes are the last thing we have that was anywhere near true to the B5 universe.

    Originally posted by DawnTreader
    ... i am concerned about the recasting possibilities that i heard about and brought me to this site, but not because my favorite cast might be recast, but because i am afraid for the next level of damage that could be caused by trying to shock some life into what should remain buried.
    If Warner Brothers insists on recasting past B5 and/or Crusade characters, it should remain buried. I'd rather the story continue in novels than in some re-imagined movie.


    Originally posted by DawnTreader
    let me say it in 2 words "Phantom Menace"
    Not really applicable to this argument. Recasting because the film takes place in a significantly different time period, makes sense. The B5 film will be taking place roughly around the time of "A Call to Arms" and Crusade, not 20 or 30 years earlier or later than what we saw on TV.

    Leave a comment:


  • Shadow-Sentient
    replied
    Originally posted by Sigma
    For me 'how' is more important than 'what'. It's not what the story is but how it is told. And Season5 for most part is not a good storytelling.

    But i like S5, it's far from S3-4 quality but still OK. IMO Centauri War is the most boring arc element in B5 (i rather watch "Grey17 is Missing" than "Movement of Shadow and Fire") but i really like "Torn Asunder" and last 4 episodes.
    Fair enough,

    Leave it to diversity of opinion. I however was happy to have the storyline continue and both satisified and perturbed at its conclusion. I must still disagree that season 5 was not good storytelling ... it nailed down and concluded the story arcs. Season four only concluded some of them .
    The morose tone by which Season 5 took it's final bow was testament to the dour nature by which it was seeing it's finality and fate. To me, that means more than the explosions and carnage wrought upon us by the end of Season 4 ... this does not mean I didn't like season four, In fact, I very much did, but I don't see season 5 undermining the previous years because it became more introspective.
    And shame on you for praising the "Grey 17 Is Missing" story just to make your point ... shame shame shame ...

    Leave a comment:


  • WorkerCaste
    replied
    Hello DawnTreader, and welcome. In answer to your questions, I liked S5, although it was not my favorite, but I did not feel that it was because of a decrease in quality. I loved Crusade, am glad to have it sitting on my shelf, and will enjoy revisiting it from time to time in bittersweet appreciation for what might have been. I even liked the Rangers TV movie, although some things needed to be smoothed out for series IMO.

    Still, I can honestly say that I sometimes think things should be left alone. Often they get pushed to far. "The only sequel that ever loses money is the last one!" For me, though, I look at a B5 feature as an opportunity for all these good and dedicated people to take their shot at the more glamorous end of the industry, and my faith in their talent is such that I think they deserve it and will do a good job of it.

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  • Sigma
    replied
    Originally posted by Shadow-Sentient
    In short, the dislike of Season 5 by certain fans I see motivated more by lack of the Adrenaline rush than anything esle and after citing all of the above, I simply just can't agree with them.
    For me 'how' is more important than 'what'. It's not what the story is but how it is told. And Season5 for most part is not a good storytelling.

    But i like S5, it's far from S3-4 quality but still OK. IMO Centauri War is the most boring arc element in B5 (i rather watch "Grey17 is Missing" than "Movement of Shadow and Fire") but i really like "Torn Asunder" and last 4 episodes.

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  • Shadow-Sentient
    replied
    I find the criticisms of Season 5 to be more reactionary than logical. The sudden shift from fast paced to slow, is enough to lose a good majority of American audience members for the sheer fact that they tend to be adrenaline junkies, despite varying levels of intelligence.

    There were several key episodes in Season 5 ... for instance ... we would have never seen the full arcs of Londo and G'Kar, at least not as far as G'Kar's ascension to a Christ-like figure, and Londo's tragedy and ultimate redemption ... (Which is revealed in "In the Beginning" the Season 5 movie opener when he gets his last chance to save himself by freeing Sheridan and Delenn.)
    A View From the Gallery will always be a favorite of mine simply for the sheer genius in looking at the story from another perspective. It followed with the earlier seasons and how the "Worker castes" were always overlooked, left to clean up after everyone, dutifully doing and not questioning. This episode alone justified season 5 for me, not to mention the Garibaldi-falling off the friggin' wagon bit, the Lochley dynamic where she had to defend her actions during the war, the entire aftermath and consequences of the war. How about the League of Non-Aligned Worlds defying Sheridan and attacking Centauri Prime in an act of vengeance orchestrated and manipulated by the Drahk? Londo's realization that he had been played by Morden? and Sleeping in Light, filmed at the end of Season 4 or not, will always be the last episode of Season 5 for me. It was the finest hour I have ever witnessed on television ... end of story.
    In short, the dislike of Season 5 by certain fans I see motivated more by lack of the Adrenaline rush than anything esle and after citing all of the above, I simply just can't agree with them.

    "A Call to Arms" however? ... that's a different story. I don't know what happened to the writing in that episode but it was filled with hasty generalizations and 'jumped to' conclusions. Things made sense only in a haphazard sort of way and plot complication solution was on par with the average Trek episode. Boxleitner, Doyle, and Dobro carried a weak script (which is highly unusual for JMS) with brilliant acting. Oh yeah, loathed the music ... very anti-climatic, Franke's absence was felt.

    As far as bringing the show back? I think that movies should definitely be made. There are many stories that could be told in that Universe. As many stories as there are lives and interesting occurences in the Universe. I would be sad to not see the faces that have become so ingrained in the Babylon 5 experience, but happy that the Universe itself lives on. Still, I am joining Joe D. and the campaigners in writing WB. Long Live B5!

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  • cornholio1980
    replied
    I never quite understood the disappointment many B5-Fans felt with Season 5. Was it on par with Season 4? No, but for me, S4 is an absolutely outstanding part of television history anyway, since in my opinion no season of any other show comes even close in terms of intensity, drama, action and story. And while I'll agree that S5 startet rather slow (to slow?) and that the Telepath Arc lost tremendously because Claudia Christian left the show, the Drakh-Storyline together with Garibaldi's problems really got me hooked again. "A view from the gallery", "Day of the Dead", "The Ragged Edge", "The Corps is Mother, the Corps is Father", "The Fall of Centauri Prime", "Wheel of Fire", "Objects in Motion" as well as "Objects at Rest" are definitely episodes that I don't wanna miss. And, as was stated here before, "Sleeping in light" alone would have been reason enough for me to buy the S5-box - one of the most emotional experiences in my life.

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  • Capt.Montoya
    replied
    Re: Can we just leave it alone?

    The answer, from my part, is a resounding NO.
    This is not the time to leave B5 alone.
    Originally posted by DawnTreader
    i am a great fan of B5. i think that there has been no other scifi show of any kind, other than the Lord of the Rings and the Matrix series, which captivated my attention like B5 had.

    unfortunately i dont agree with bringing this show back in any form. leave it alone. if JMS himself reads this message, then please JM move on, do something else, find another grand story to tell in another universe. you created something great, but towards the end the quality really died off.

    to all you B5 fans who are about to flame me, be honest, did season 5 work well? and who really wanted crusade to continue? B5 was good upto season 4 finale, then the general quality of the show went a little down hill. and crusade wont even get a spot in my DVD collection.

    i am concerned about the recasting possibilities that i heard about and brought me to this site, but not because my favorite cast might be recast, but because i am afraid for the next level of damage that could be caused by trying to shock some life into what should remain buried.

    let me say it in 2 words "Phantom Menace"
    I think the comparison to Star Wars doesn't fit, George Lucas was never such a good writer nor director. Had Lucas gone the same route he did with Empire Strikes Back (have real writers finish the script and a better director) that wouldn't even be an example.

    Another point to consider with regards to Season 5: all the seasons of B5 started slow. Even season 4 started with some recap and slower pace.
    This was due to the reality of the TV business, a new season may attract new viewers and you have to give them a chance to catch up.
    With the fifth season there was the expectation that TNT viewers that had never seen B5 would start watching from season 5 (and slowly get the rest of the story from the reruns). So I'll add that factor to the reasons S5 seemed slow, it wasn't only that all the main arc threads had been resolved in S4.

    But maybe I'm just biased... I did like season 5, it did have good stories, and the fall of Centauri Prime arc (as others have said) was superb. You can't fight a war and not expect repercusions, that arc made it very poignantly clear.

    Also, the show is not being brought back. The main saga of Babylon 5 is over.
    But the universe of Babylon 5 and Crusade still has lots of room for further stories.

    At this point it seems unlikely those stories will be told in another series (but I still hold hopes for a Crusade revival), however they migh be told in a series of movies (a trilogy... funny how it's always trilogies).
    And at this moment it's all gearing up for the first of those movies, after much time of rumors and hopes for a movie.

    So, no, let's not leave it alone.

    If TMoS turned out to be a disappointment I might agree with you but that is, for the time being, an unrealized reality.

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  • TryTheSpoo
    replied
    RE: Season 4

    Hello,

    I just wanted to chime in, cuz hey, what else is this place for?

    Not that JMS or the season 4 vs season 5 situation needs defense or explanation to any of us, I just wanted to point this out.

    In the middle of season 4, even running at the break neck pace some have said, even believing that he was going to have to wrap everything up with no season 5, he still put "Intersections In Real Time" into season 4.

    Think of the extra arc material, extra backround material, extra character work that could have gone into that episode. But, telling the story he wanted to tell demanded that he devote an entire episode to Sherridan in a box.

    Season 5 is no ones 'fault' It should not be looked at as anything other than what it is, 21 more episodes of a show that I love that I came **THIS** close to not getting.

    I'll take all the new B5 I can get.

    Leave a comment:


  • circularREASON
    replied
    I found season 5 to be ok - about on par with season 1 & 2.

    I have heard complaints about the TELEPATH ARC but to be honest I found it quite moving.

    Londos' decent into slavery at the hands of the Drakh made wonderful viewing. Also the hand over of B5 to the new generation when Sheridan and Delenn leave was very moving.

    And Lennier getting all hot under the collar about Delenn....

    and then theres SLEEPING IN LIGHT which is probably worth the price of the set on its own.

    I must admit I cried like a baby when I watched that one.

    I can't get my hands on S5 until the 17th, but I will buy it and complete my collection. ( well apart from the movies that is ).

    and look forward to whatever comes next in the B5 universe.

    Leave a comment:

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