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Can we just leave it alone?

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  • yohoob
    replied
    There was some good things about season 5. I personally didnt enjoy the telepath arc. The centari arc was good as well. Season five seemed to show more of the b5 universe. Such as the drazi homeworld, some brackari aspect the day of the dead. The day of a psi cop and maintence technican. There was a more mix of episodes in season five almost like season one. For crusade it was kinda of hit or miss for me. I havent decided if i will buy the episdoes or not, i have bought everything else. The legend of the rangers had a good start. I thought the weapons system was stupid. That would have to be changed. Just for a pesonel note i liked season 2 as one of my favortite seasons. I liked the narn centori conflict. I prefer wars between more even enemys. I would like to see a mini series with the digar war. I know it wont happen. Thats my two cents

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  • Joseph DeMartino
    replied
    Right. With relation to Crusade TNT and WB were network and producing studio. Their corporate relationship did not really have any impact on the series. They were no different in this respect than ABC (network) and Fox (studio) are with regards to NYPD Blue - the network airs the show and has some input during production, the studio owns the show and the ancillary rights. Time Warner is not nearly as integrated an organization as Dinsey/ABC, NBC/Universal, the Fox companies or Paramount/Viacom. Hell, the various Warner Bros. divisions are barely on speaking terms, often work at cross-purposes and sometimes flat-out compete with one another. Their relationship with other T-W entities is even more distant. (At the time of the Crusade mess Warner Bros. was going to sue TNT for payment on the remaining 9 season one episodes - because the network had contracted for a full 22-episode season and was refusing to pay up. The suit was only halted when someone higher up in the T-W food chain realized that ultimately the shareholders would have ended up paying the lawyers on both sides of the suit. And the settlement money would have come out of the parent company's left pocket and gone into its right.)

    Regards,

    Joe

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  • colonyearth
    replied
    Re: Re: Re: Re: Can we just leave it alone?

    Originally posted by Tibbetts
    Thought WB and TNT were partners.



    Tibbetts
    Actually, TNT is a subsidiary of Time-Warner...so is WB Studios and WB Domestic Television. Neither had or has any control over the other. It was TNT Atlanta that caused the demise of CRUSADE...WB Domestic Television was 100% in support of the series and tried to find another venue for it. However, TNT wanted so much money for the rights to CRUSADE that no one would buy it.

    CE

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  • Tibbetts
    replied
    Re: Re: Re: Can we just leave it alone?

    Originally posted by Jan
    Just a minor correction here. It was TNT Atlanta that deliberately caused Crusade's demise, not WB.

    Jan
    Thought WB and TNT were partners.



    Tibbetts

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  • Jan
    replied
    Re: Re: Can we just leave it alone?

    Originally posted by Tibbetts
    I also thought Crusade should've gone on longer and that Warner Bros should've kept its nose out of the shows direction.
    Just a minor correction here. It was TNT Atlanta that deliberately caused Crusade's demise, not WB.

    Jan

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  • Tibbetts
    replied
    Re: Can we just leave it alone?

    Originally posted by DawnTreader
    i am a great fan of B5. i think that there has been no other scifi show of any kind, other than the Lord of the Rings and the Matrix series, which captivated my attention like B5 had.

    unfortunately i dont agree with bringing this show back in any form. leave it alone. if JMS himself reads this message, then please JM move on, do something else, find another grand story to tell in another universe. you created something great, but towards the end the quality really died off.

    to all you B5 fans who are about to flame me, be honest, did season 5 work well? and who really wanted crusade to continue? B5 was good upto season 4 finale, then the general quality of the show went a little down hill. and crusade wont even get a spot in my DVD collection.

    i am concerned about the recasting possibilities that i heard about and brought me to this site, but not because my favorite cast might be recast, but because i am afraid for the next level of damage that could be caused by trying to shock some life into what should remain buried.

    let me say it in 2 words "Phantom Menace"
    I liked the fifth season of B5. Not as good as the first four seasons, but still good. I also thought Crusade should've gone on longer and that Warner Bros should've kept its nose out of the shows direction.

    Also, I liked "Phantom Menace".



    Tibbetts

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  • KoshN
    replied
    Originally posted by Joseph DeMartino
    When a network tries to steam-roller him and he tries to bend as far as he can to keep the show alive we get the "black uniform" Crusade episodes.
    In all fairness, in that case, sometimes JMS can still prevail and produce a gem of an episode:

    ôThe Path of Sorrowsö

    ...and some good episodes:

    ôPatterns of the Soulö
    ôThe Rules of the Gameö
    ôAppearances and Other Deceitsö




    Originally posted by Joseph DeMartino
    (When the network gets its way 100% we get "War Zone" - hock, spit! )
    And even then, he puts out an episode that has some very good scenes, stuff I'd hate to lose. (i.e. I'd hate to lose any of Max's screentime. )

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  • grumbler
    replied
    Originally posted by Spoo Junky
    And I'm keeping the Kleenex people in business, since I go through about a box during the last few episodes.
    Pesonally, I hate the way the DVD transfers have sustained the extensive blurring of the image during Sheridan's farewell to Delenn and the final moments of B5. You'd think they would have cured that blurring with technology, but it happens every time...

    Leave a comment:


  • grumbler
    replied
    Re: Re: Can we just leave it alone?

    Originally posted by Laiden
    If anyone watched the DVD Introductions and/or commentaries, JMS said that Babylon 5 was like the five parts of a book:

    introduction, a plot, a climax, a resolution, and a denouement (final resolution or the end result)
    Properly speaking, the second portion is (according to JMS) "the complication" not "a plot." Given what started season two, this is espacially apt.

    The third is "rising action" not "the climax" and the fourth is the climax (which is the same as the denoument).

    You are right that the fifth is falling action/end reult/consequences, which is what the fifth season ended up being in its entirety, rather than its bulk.

    The only difference in what JMS planned and what we saw was that the "consequences" phase lasted about four eps longer than he would have liked.

    All IMO, of course.

    Leave a comment:


  • Joseph DeMartino
    replied
    To answer the original question, "we" left B5 alone for years after it went out of production. It is Warner Bros. and they keeps realizing that there's money to be made in this property and they try another production. As long as they keep making 'em, we'll keep watching them as long as there is good stuff there - which there has been. When JMS is left alone to do was he likes we get B5 and the "grey uniform" episodes of Crusade. When a network tries to steam-roller him and he tries to bend as far as he can to keep the show alive we get the "black uniform" Crusade episodes. (When the netowrk gets its way 100% we get "War Zone" - hock, spit! ) When he's between a studio and a network and pressured on budet we get Legend of the Rangers (or the original Gathering), a shaky pilot that could have led to a better series. The potential was clearly there.

    Regards,

    Joe

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  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Hmmm...is this a thread about whether stories relating to the B5 universe should continue to be told or is it about liking season 5 and Crusade ? Even if everyone agreed with your dislike of season 5 and Crusade, it would not follow that we should all
    ( especially JMS ) walk away from it. If anything it might say take great care that the storytelling is up to par with the best possible. Many of us feel there is far more to be told and are looking forward to new B5 material. I am one of the ones who will be terribly disappointed if the original actors are cast aside. Worse would be a re-casting of characters. Imagine re-casting Captain Kirk as Brad Pitt ?? Or Jean-Luc Picard as Russel Crowe ? Celebrity is desirable but not when it bumps up against the audience's reasonable expectations.

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  • Laiden
    replied
    Re: Can we just leave it alone?

    Originally posted by DawnTreader
    to all you B5 fans who are about to flame me, be honest, did season 5 work well?
    If anyone watched the DVD Introductions and/or commentaries, JMS said that Babylon 5 was like the five parts of a book:

    introduction, a plot, a climax, a resolution, and a denouement (final resolution or the end result)

    as you go through each season DVD set, he talks about season one being the introduction, season two being the plot, season three is the climax, season 4 is the resolution, and season 5 is the final result.

    if you ended season 4 where it ended, you didnt know what really happened to everyone untill 20 years later (if "sleeping in the light" was the last episode of season 4). JMS's intention for the series was a 5 year arc, and I think season 5, TRULY gave us closure in the series. It did open new plots to be discussed, but I believe his intention was to show us what will happen, and to be able to tell that story somehow. but the Babylon 5 Series was meant for 5 years, and I am glad it was able to conclude the story in season 5.

    If you listened to the "A Call to Arms" Commentary, although it was a lot of technical stuff, JMS did say that Crusade's main plot of finding a cure would have ended about halfway into season 2, and that it was going to have much larger things to deal with. I was greatly dissapointed that this series was not given the chance to shine for at least a FULL season. just one more episode and the plot would have picked in a very strong way. I wish TNT had sold the series to someone because I know it would have been a great series. It had a few story similarites to B5. One example being that both series started after a great war (B5 - Earth Minbari war, Crusade - Telepath War). Since the elements from B5 were in place, the series could take off and use what knowledge was in the series.

    So to those who dont believe that B5 should continue, I say that you should goto the Star Trek Fans and ask them why Star Trek should continue. I too am a Trek fan, and as much as I like Star Trek, I See how much has been left unsaid or undiscovered in the B5 Galaxy and only wish that B5:TMoS one of the steps to continue the stories in this Imaginative Galaxy
    Last edited by Laiden; 01-19-2005, 03:40 AM.

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  • Doktor
    replied
    Re: Can we just leave it alone?

    Originally posted by SciFiRanger
    there are many more stories within this universe that NEED to be told. So we can not just leave it alone and let it die a terrible death.
    Hell, just the thought of seeing Minbari cruisers on the big screen is enough to make it worthwhile

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  • SciFiRanger
    replied
    Can we just leave it alone?

    Absolutely NOT!

    As stated by others here, the 5 year story of B5 has been told and in no way will the movies be a continuation of that part of the story but as also stated earlier there are many more stories within this universe that NEED to be told. So we can not just leave it alone and let it die a terrible death. We must support JMS and these movies because it's possible the new stories will draw us in again and give us even more of what we got from the first story. B5 changed the face of SciFi to be something possible and endearing and it had a profound effect on all of us or we wouldn't be here. If there's a remote chance that such fires can be re kindled then we must do everything in our power to do so! If the newbie that started this thread really loved the show, then he too should want to see what's next. If not then he may have never really been a true fan, perhaps he's one of the suits trying to do some damage control. All the more reason for us to keep up the fight against those who would subvert us, the movie and JMS.

    Leave a comment:


  • TheFrozenMuffin
    replied
    I really don't know how anyone can expect season 4 to be beaten, but I enjoyed season 5. I think if I got the chance to bring my imagination to the screen not many ppl would like it, but I would.

    Leave a comment:

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