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  • #16
    I liked Season 5. It wasn't as fast paced as the other seasons, but it did touch on some of the issues that were raised during the first four seasons. Like after a war, when the rest of the world has moved onto other things, what happens to the people left behind - like the telepaths.

    I also really liked Day of the Dead. It just sort of appealed to me and I'm glad I got the DVD so I can watch it a few more times.

    And I'm keeping the Kleenex people in business, since I go through about a box during the last few episodes.
    Flying around the room under my own power.

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    • #17
      Season 5 was a needed breather after the Season 4 bullet train. True, if everyone involved with B5 knew there would be a Season 5 (instead of being told 2 minutes to midnight), then it would be a very powerful closing act, not that it was a weak ending.

      Since I saw almost all of Season 1 in college and never saw the other seasons until the DVD releases, I never thought Season 5 was as bad as some make it out to be. I don't like comparing each season to the other, but if I had to, I feel Season 5 is similar to Season 2 in matters of the intro of a new CO, a similar rising of tension with the "mysterious raiders" attacking the Alliance.

      Yes, it never wrapped up every single thread. Life doesn't either, since once you understand everything, you're dead. The Star Trek and B5 universes are separate creations, but both share the same aspect that both leave room for more story. The focus won't be entirely on those who continue on the station itself, though it will be more than just a cameo appearance. That's why I've enjoyed the Del Rey trilogies. I wanted more, and the authors delivered masterfully.
      RIP Coach Larry Finch
      Thank you Memphis Grizzlies for a great season.
      Play like your fake girlfriend died today - new Notre Dame motivational sign

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      • #18
        I always come back to JMS's assertion that he was creating a novel for television. This really works for me, and it really means that you can't effectively compare season to season. Quite often, a book starts slowly presenting a variety of threads, some of which will prove to be crucial to the telling of the story, some of which are red herrings, and some which exist to highlight a character or illuminate a portion of the setting. Season 1 does this well. Afte the establishing chapters, you need to start building the story and concentrating more on those threads that will carry the plot forward. Seems a lot like season 2 to me. Now you're reaching the meat of the story. Plot rises to a fever pitch. The crisis is fully set. Season 3. Now it's a full rush to the climax. Season 4. Finally, novels will usually let the dust settle and give you a glimpse of what happened after. Season 5.

        Allowing for the requiements and challenges of TV, JMS created his novel. I know people who will skim the final chapters of books once the climax has been reached. Those people weren't as enthusiastic about season 5.

        Were I a writer I could probably draw the parallels in far more detail and use all the correct terms, but as a reader I can see them well enough.
        "That was the law, as set down by Valen. Three castes: worker, religious, warrior."

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        • #19
          I find myself thinking about Season 5 in a few contradictory ways: good premise, generally good story, occasionally bad execution and a promise of what could have been but wasn't.

          I think it is this last one that most fans concentrate on: that the telepath storyline could have been enriched by the presence of the Ivanova character, that Season 5 feels like a 'bolt-on' to the story.

          It's safe to say that everyone can agree that the telepath arc would be *different* with the inclusion of Ivanova. But Better? Maybe. Was Ivanova's part in the arc what was expected (in terms of continuity)? Definitely.

          The second point (that Season 5 feels like a 'bolt-on') should come as no real surprise, nor is it a negative comment, given that JMS had to separate the storylines for S4 and S5 so that there could be a resolution in case the show finished with Season 4.

          Where I am slightly critical is in terms of some of the production values, notably the CGI and the 'realistic' feel of the show. While the CGI was up to its usual high-quality in terms of the actual graphics, I felt that the thought behind it (in terms of ship design, movement and realism) was lacking. The energy and general 'wow' factor that was there for me in (for example) Severed Dreams just wasn't present.

          And for me, while being an interesting and enjoyable arc, the Centauri story-line held more promise that was actually delivered. I particulary remember the scene where Alliance members are plotting to attack the Centauri - and the subsequent execution of said attack - it seemed a little 'plastic' and not wholly realistic.

          This is just my feeling from watching the show. Perhaps it's a sign of production fatigue after five seasons, or perhaps it's just my taste/perception...

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          • #20
            Season 5 ain't the best season, but it had many very good episodes. And had the whole thing ended up at season 4, so many things would have been left unresolved. It finishes up the series very well, and it's still a better season than basically any season of any other series in my opinion.

            Now, what comes to continuing B5... that might not be a good idea, at least as a series. The fates of most of the main cast has been asserted, ending the series very well (Sleeping in Light is the most emotional, most touching piece shown in television, ever!). It might not be wise to start messing things up with a new series in which these same characters would play a major role (although B5 without Delenn etc really has the feel of something crucial missing ).

            But completely burying B5 is not necessary either. For example, movies could be made about the telepath war, Dilgari war (I've always wanted to know more about that one), and maybe even G'Kar's and Lyta's "expeditions" - and not to forget the Shadow War of the 12th century, and perhaps Valen's role amongst the Minbari after that. Hell, even about the "first contact" with the Centauris!

            So basically I feel the series was there for the time that it was, and was awesome. It was concluded in a fashion that somewhat defies a new major series with the same characters, but the universe still has some untold tales that could be told via movies. Of course, such movies don't come free, so most likely we won't be seeing much of them no matter how many of them we'd like to see

            As for Crusade... even though it wasn't a match for B5, I still would've liked to see it finished, definitely. It was still better than 95% of other series out there.

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            • #21
              I really don't know how anyone can expect season 4 to be beaten, but I enjoyed season 5. I think if I got the chance to bring my imagination to the screen not many ppl would like it, but I would.

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              • #22
                Can we just leave it alone?

                Absolutely NOT!

                As stated by others here, the 5 year story of B5 has been told and in no way will the movies be a continuation of that part of the story but as also stated earlier there are many more stories within this universe that NEED to be told. So we can not just leave it alone and let it die a terrible death. We must support JMS and these movies because it's possible the new stories will draw us in again and give us even more of what we got from the first story. B5 changed the face of SciFi to be something possible and endearing and it had a profound effect on all of us or we wouldn't be here. If there's a remote chance that such fires can be re kindled then we must do everything in our power to do so! If the newbie that started this thread really loved the show, then he too should want to see what's next. If not then he may have never really been a true fan, perhaps he's one of the suits trying to do some damage control. All the more reason for us to keep up the fight against those who would subvert us, the movie and JMS.

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                • #23
                  Re: Can we just leave it alone?

                  Originally posted by SciFiRanger
                  there are many more stories within this universe that NEED to be told. So we can not just leave it alone and let it die a terrible death.
                  Hell, just the thought of seeing Minbari cruisers on the big screen is enough to make it worthwhile

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                  • #24
                    Re: Can we just leave it alone?

                    Originally posted by DawnTreader
                    to all you B5 fans who are about to flame me, be honest, did season 5 work well?
                    If anyone watched the DVD Introductions and/or commentaries, JMS said that Babylon 5 was like the five parts of a book:

                    introduction, a plot, a climax, a resolution, and a denouement (final resolution or the end result)

                    as you go through each season DVD set, he talks about season one being the introduction, season two being the plot, season three is the climax, season 4 is the resolution, and season 5 is the final result.

                    if you ended season 4 where it ended, you didnt know what really happened to everyone untill 20 years later (if "sleeping in the light" was the last episode of season 4). JMS's intention for the series was a 5 year arc, and I think season 5, TRULY gave us closure in the series. It did open new plots to be discussed, but I believe his intention was to show us what will happen, and to be able to tell that story somehow. but the Babylon 5 Series was meant for 5 years, and I am glad it was able to conclude the story in season 5.

                    If you listened to the "A Call to Arms" Commentary, although it was a lot of technical stuff, JMS did say that Crusade's main plot of finding a cure would have ended about halfway into season 2, and that it was going to have much larger things to deal with. I was greatly dissapointed that this series was not given the chance to shine for at least a FULL season. just one more episode and the plot would have picked in a very strong way. I wish TNT had sold the series to someone because I know it would have been a great series. It had a few story similarites to B5. One example being that both series started after a great war (B5 - Earth Minbari war, Crusade - Telepath War). Since the elements from B5 were in place, the series could take off and use what knowledge was in the series.

                    So to those who dont believe that B5 should continue, I say that you should goto the Star Trek Fans and ask them why Star Trek should continue. I too am a Trek fan, and as much as I like Star Trek, I See how much has been left unsaid or undiscovered in the B5 Galaxy and only wish that B5:TMoS one of the steps to continue the stories in this Imaginative Galaxy
                    Last edited by Laiden; 01-19-2005, 03:40 AM.
                    "It is said that the future is always born in pain. The history of war is the history of pain. If we are wise, what is born of that pain matures into the promise of a better world, because we learn that we can no longer afford the mistakes of the past." -- G'Kar in Babylon 5:"In the Beginning"

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                    • #25
                      Hmmm...is this a thread about whether stories relating to the B5 universe should continue to be told or is it about liking season 5 and Crusade ? Even if everyone agreed with your dislike of season 5 and Crusade, it would not follow that we should all
                      ( especially JMS ) walk away from it. If anything it might say take great care that the storytelling is up to par with the best possible. Many of us feel there is far more to be told and are looking forward to new B5 material. I am one of the ones who will be terribly disappointed if the original actors are cast aside. Worse would be a re-casting of characters. Imagine re-casting Captain Kirk as Brad Pitt ?? Or Jean-Luc Picard as Russel Crowe ? Celebrity is desirable but not when it bumps up against the audience's reasonable expectations.

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                      • #26
                        To answer the original question, "we" left B5 alone for years after it went out of production. It is Warner Bros. and they keeps realizing that there's money to be made in this property and they try another production. As long as they keep making 'em, we'll keep watching them as long as there is good stuff there - which there has been. When JMS is left alone to do was he likes we get B5 and the "grey uniform" episodes of Crusade. When a network tries to steam-roller him and he tries to bend as far as he can to keep the show alive we get the "black uniform" Crusade episodes. (When the netowrk gets its way 100% we get "War Zone" - hock, spit! ) When he's between a studio and a network and pressured on budet we get Legend of the Rangers (or the original Gathering), a shaky pilot that could have led to a better series. The potential was clearly there.

                        Regards,

                        Joe
                        Joseph DeMartino
                        Sigh Corps
                        Pat Tallman Division

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                        • #27
                          Re: Re: Can we just leave it alone?

                          Originally posted by Laiden
                          If anyone watched the DVD Introductions and/or commentaries, JMS said that Babylon 5 was like the five parts of a book:

                          introduction, a plot, a climax, a resolution, and a denouement (final resolution or the end result)
                          Properly speaking, the second portion is (according to JMS) "the complication" not "a plot." Given what started season two, this is espacially apt.

                          The third is "rising action" not "the climax" and the fourth is the climax (which is the same as the denoument).

                          You are right that the fifth is falling action/end reult/consequences, which is what the fifth season ended up being in its entirety, rather than its bulk.

                          The only difference in what JMS planned and what we saw was that the "consequences" phase lasted about four eps longer than he would have liked.

                          All IMO, of course.
                          I believe that when we leave a place, part of it goes with us and part of us remains. Go anywhere in the station, when it is quiet, and just listen. After a while, you will hear the echoes of all our conversations, every thought and word we've exchanged. Long after we are gone .. our voices will linger in these walls for as long as this place remains. But I will admit .. that the part of me that is going .. will very much miss the part of you that is staying.

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Spoo Junky
                            And I'm keeping the Kleenex people in business, since I go through about a box during the last few episodes.
                            Pesonally, I hate the way the DVD transfers have sustained the extensive blurring of the image during Sheridan's farewell to Delenn and the final moments of B5. You'd think they would have cured that blurring with technology, but it happens every time...
                            I believe that when we leave a place, part of it goes with us and part of us remains. Go anywhere in the station, when it is quiet, and just listen. After a while, you will hear the echoes of all our conversations, every thought and word we've exchanged. Long after we are gone .. our voices will linger in these walls for as long as this place remains. But I will admit .. that the part of me that is going .. will very much miss the part of you that is staying.

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Joseph DeMartino
                              When a network tries to steam-roller him and he tries to bend as far as he can to keep the show alive we get the "black uniform" Crusade episodes.
                              In all fairness, in that case, sometimes JMS can still prevail and produce a gem of an episode:

                              ôThe Path of Sorrowsö

                              ...and some good episodes:

                              ôPatterns of the Soulö
                              ôThe Rules of the Gameö
                              ôAppearances and Other Deceitsö




                              Originally posted by Joseph DeMartino
                              (When the network gets its way 100% we get "War Zone" - hock, spit! )
                              And even then, he puts out an episode that has some very good scenes, stuff I'd hate to lose. (i.e. I'd hate to lose any of Max's screentime. )
                              Mac Breck (KoshN)
                              ------------------
                              Warner Brothers is Lucy.
                              JMS and we fans are collectively Charlie Brown.
                              Babylon 5 is the football.

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                              • #30
                                Re: Can we just leave it alone?

                                Originally posted by DawnTreader
                                i am a great fan of B5. i think that there has been no other scifi show of any kind, other than the Lord of the Rings and the Matrix series, which captivated my attention like B5 had.

                                unfortunately i dont agree with bringing this show back in any form. leave it alone. if JMS himself reads this message, then please JM move on, do something else, find another grand story to tell in another universe. you created something great, but towards the end the quality really died off.

                                to all you B5 fans who are about to flame me, be honest, did season 5 work well? and who really wanted crusade to continue? B5 was good upto season 4 finale, then the general quality of the show went a little down hill. and crusade wont even get a spot in my DVD collection.

                                i am concerned about the recasting possibilities that i heard about and brought me to this site, but not because my favorite cast might be recast, but because i am afraid for the next level of damage that could be caused by trying to shock some life into what should remain buried.

                                let me say it in 2 words "Phantom Menace"
                                I liked the fifth season of B5. Not as good as the first four seasons, but still good. I also thought Crusade should've gone on longer and that Warner Bros should've kept its nose out of the shows direction.

                                Also, I liked "Phantom Menace".



                                Tibbetts
                                Admiral Tibbetts' Sci-Fi Board. <=== First try at creating a board. Feel free to check it out if ya want.

                                "I'm a man-
                                But I can change-
                                If I have to-
                                ... I guess." - Man's Prayer

                                "only the dead have seen the end of war." - Plato

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