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Sp...what are the chances of TMoS being what we hoped for?

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  • z^3
    replied
    Originally posted by grumbler
    I never said that. What I said was the JMS has not, as claimed by bakana, said for years that he was planning multiple movies. I am sure that JMS always kept in mind the possibilities for more than a single movie, but he wisely kept the focus on just getting the first one done, and declined to discuss anything even more tenuous. Once a successful first movie is made, follow-up movies are approved and made much more quickly and readily. It is the first one that is the bear.
    Apologies, I'd misinterpreted what you'd said. At least we all seem to be (more or less) on the same page now!

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  • grumbler
    replied
    Originally posted by z^3
    Just to clarify (because I don't think I was being too clear), I was trying to refute Grumbler's point about there only ever being one movie planned.
    I never said that. What I said was the JMS has not, as claimed by bakana, said for years that he was planning multiple movies. I am sure that JMS always kept in mind the possibilities for more than a single movie, but he wisely kept the focus on just getting the first one done, and declined to discuss anything even more tenuous. Once a successful first movie is made, follow-up movies are approved and made much more quickly and readily. It is the first one that is the bear.

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  • KoshN
    replied
    Originally posted by z^3

    ... And some Ivanova too please. (Actually, that reminds me - having just read the "Hidden Agendas" short-story, does anyone agree that the closing paragraph bodes well for Ivanova's involvement in the film...?)
    In a perfect world, yes. Hell, I'd love to see that short story filmed in its entirety, and be part of B5:TMoS, just not with different actors playing all the key roles.

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  • z^3
    replied
    Welcome back Amy! And thanks for taking the time to answer some of my questions - much appreciated!

    Originally posted by AislingGrey
    This is curious - z^3 and others, where did you get this idea? Who in their right mind, who works in the television and film industry, would say publicly anywhere, "Hey, I only want to make one film. Amy
    Just to clarify (because I don't think I was being too clear), I was trying to refute Grumbler's point about there only ever being one movie planned. While I agreed that the Telepath Crisis/War was the original story planned for a movie, other subjects have come up (such as, apparently, in the case of TMoS) and if TMoS is sucessful will come up again. There is so much complexity to the B5 universe that so much is possible!!

    On the last point, I agree. More G'Kar. And some Ivanova too please. (Actually, that reminds me - having just read the "Hidden Agendas" short-story, does anyone agree that the closing paragraph bodes well for Ivanova's involvement in the film...?)

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  • grumbler
    replied
    Originally posted by Capt.Montoya
    You know, I get the impression that no matter how he says it, Grumbler does believe the rumors and supports the campaign.

    I understand the weariness from Amy and Jan, but I fear that weariness might have make you concentrate on a few statements (negative, or just not positive enough) out of their context. If you put them in the context of the parts I emphasized you might see grumbler's comments differently.
    Maybe grumbler could express himself better, or make it more explicit that he supports the letter writing?

    Now let's all take a deep breath and "we will all come together in a better place" ,)
    Oh, yes, of course I do! I wasn't aware that I had left this in doubt.

    My argument was simply that those who believe that there is a movie in the works have only hints and rumors (okay, strong hints and rumoprs, but still just hints and rumors) to base their belief on. Some of those very same people, when confronted with a truth they don't like, poo-pooh the idea of "casting troubles" because the reports of "casting troubles" are based on hints and rumors. Before they will take action they need "proof."

    I merely point out the logical inconsistency of the decision to believe inthe movie's existance but not take action, in both cases sans "proof."

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  • grumbler
    replied
    Originally posted by AislingGrey
    Grumbler, I was _there_, in the front row of that classroom in Hawthorne (you can see my pink patent leather purse in the corner of some of the photos), and I'm telling you: he mimed an old-fashioned movie camera. You wanna tell me what else that could possibly mean?
    That is not "proof" in the eyes of some, just as was not his statement that would LIKE to comment on the casting rumors but COULD NOT. I mean, what else could that possibly mean?

    Sigh. Anyway, this is probably a moot point by now, as decisions are certainly about to be made if they haven't in fact been made already. I'm just getting so tired of the whole "well, we don't even know if this information is true, because we haven't seen any PROOF" rigamarole, I didn't want to let your post pass by without comment.
    I am getting tired of the same rigamarole, but can see (since I was not at Hawthorne and the transcript does NOT have JMS directly saying TMoS was a feature, AFAICT) that there are people who are willing to believe things without "proof" so long as that belief does not seem to impel them to take action. I merely wish to call them on it.

    I think that the very silence of JMS on this issue is as compelling a hint as anything said at Hawthorne, frankly. If there were not a problem, he could and would say just that.

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  • Capt.Montoya
    replied
    Originally posted by grumbler
    When I read the transcript, I didn't see any direct mention of a feature, just the clear implication that there was to be one. So clear as to be unmistakable, but still just "hints" no matter how broad. Which is why I chide those who accept the movie without a doubt and then look at the casting issue (with only slightly less suporting evidence) and say "that cannot be true because i haven't seen any proof."

    Ya gotta decide whether you believe things in the absence of proof or not. You cannot logically say that one item should be believed without proof and another should not.
    You know, I get the impression that no matter how he says it, Grumbler does believe the rumors and supports the campaign.

    I understand the weariness from Amy and Jan, but I fear that weariness might have make you concentrate on a few statements (negative, or just not positive enough) out of their context. If you put them in the context of the parts I emphasized you might see grumbler's comments differently.
    Maybe grumbler could express himself better, or make it more explicit that he supports the letter writing?

    Now let's all take a deep breath and "we will all come together in a better place" ,)

    Leave a comment:


  • WorkerCaste
    replied
    Most of life happens somewhere between pure faith and incontrovertable proof. If our legal system required absolute proof rather thasn imploying a standard of reasonable doubt, prosecutors would rarely gain a conviction. I'm certainly convinced beyond a reasonable doubt that TMoS is meant to be a feature film and that it's currently being mucked with.

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  • AmyG
    replied
    When I read the transcript, I didn't see any direct mention of a feature, just the clear implication that there was to be one. So clear as to be unmistakable, but still just "hints" no matter how broad.
    Grumbler, I was _there_, in the front row of that classroom in Hawthorne (you can see my pink patent leather purse in the corner of some of the photos), and I'm telling you: he mimed an old-fashioned movie camera. You wanna tell me what else that could possibly mean?

    As for the proof question, as Jan says, sometimes it's a matter of who is delivering the information, rather than whether or not there is proof that can be shown to you. Really, the issue here is not that there isn't proof; just that some people have control issues and don't believe something unless they can see it, and hold it in their hands, themselves.

    And, when we began this campaign, believe you me: we realized this. We realized that we would get serious flak from a lot of the fan community, and even outright derision from some. But we were willing to risk that because we trusted the sources of the information.

    Do you really think I wanted to get into virtual fistfights with people I've been corresponding with on the moderated newsgroup for years? Do you really think I wanted to be told I'm a crazy fangirl, and making a mountain out of a molehill, and that I'm gullible, credulous, and otherwise stupid and crazy? Do you think I even wanted my name associated with something as wacky and potentially credibility-shattering as a (gasp) science fiction fan letter-writing campaign?

    No to all of the above. Which should go a bit farther to prove to you how convinced I am, at least, of the veracity of the information I've been dealt.

    Sigh. Anyway, this is probably a moot point by now, as decisions are certainly about to be made if they haven't in fact been made already. I'm just getting so tired of the whole "well, we don't even know if this information is true, because we haven't seen any PROOF" rigamarole, I didn't want to let your post pass by without comment.

    Amy

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  • Andrew_Swallow
    replied
    JMS mentioned the Telepath War in magazine articles.

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  • Jan
    replied
    Originally posted by grumbler
    Ya gotta decide whether you believe things in the absence of proof or not. You cannot logically say that one item should be believed without proof and another should not.
    Logically, no. Trust isn't necessarily a logic issue, though. I think that many most?) people have based their decision whether to believe or not based on who's delivering the news. The response here has been exceptional (and much appreciated!) but I'm sure that's because I, CE and Amy are well known here. When my friend Dani tried to break the news over on B5TV.com she was met with a fair amount of hostility as was CE when he went to new furums where he wasn't known well. Once Joe DeM jumped on, quite a few more people were convinced.

    BTW, can anybody find the post where JMS talked about doing the teep war as the feature film back when? I've seen it referred to many times but I don't think I've actually seen it myself.

    Thanks,
    Jan

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  • circularREASON
    replied
    good point.

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  • grumbler
    replied
    Originally posted by AislingGrey
    Now grumbler, this isn't true at all! JMS himself told those of us who were at the con in NJ last May that there was a film - and he confirmed it online in his cryptic "aspect ratio" posting. And, it was JMS himself who confirmed the title of the darned thing! Now, I can't blame some for not taking the insider information that some of us have been able to get as anything more than rumor - I mean, of course I trust myself, and I'd also hope that I have enough coin in the B5 fan community that others trust me as well - but you can't sit there and tell me that you're distrusting info that has come directly from the Great Maker himself!
    When I read the transcript, I didn't see any direct mention of a feature, just the clear implication that there was to be one. So clear as to be unmistakable, but still just "hints" no matter how broad. Which is why I chide those who accept the movie without a doubt and then look at the casting issue (with only slightly less suporting evidence) and say "that cannot be true because i haven't seen any proof."

    Ya gotta decide whether you believe things in the absence of proof or not. You cannot logically say that one item should be believed without proof and another should not.

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  • Jan
    replied
    Originally posted by bakana
    While B5 was in production, he was online almost every night, even when he was only getting 3 hours/night sleep.
    So, I think it's safe to say that, for JMS to be offline that long, he is either busier than a one armed juggler or he is being held in a Dungeon somewhere.
    These day's it's not unusual for JMS to not post regularly. If you look at the calendar on the home page of this site, you can see several months where his post volume was in single digits. He'd always said that after B5 was finished he'd be pulling back some.

    Or, it may be that Warner has included a "No EEPs" clause in the latest project contract.
    He's been saying since Nov. 2003 that it's not his place to make the announcement and has expressed frustration at not being able to give us the news.

    I don't think the number of posts he's not making can really tell us anything.

    Jan

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  • Macbeth
    replied
    Originally posted by bakana
    Which in itself is interesting.
    While B5 was in production, he was online almost every night, even when he was only getting 3 hours/night sleep.
    So, I think it's safe to say that, for JMS to be offline that long, he is either busier than a one armed juggler or he is being held in a Dungeon somewhere.

    Or, it may be that Warner has included a "No EEPs" clause in the latest project contract.
    The other alternative is that JMS does not want to say anything and is laying low. Perhaps he is fighting the good fight around casting, script changes (remember TNT) etc and does not want the fan community involved.

    I can readily see situations where bringing in the online community to fight with JMS against the studio will spin out of control and will only result in the project being canned.

    Mac
    Last edited by Macbeth; 01-24-2005, 07:17 AM.

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