Sp...what are the chances of TMoS being what we hoped for?

[Laiden]

Originally posted by Michael Malloy
I would never consider Galen a minor character. Even though he didn't appear in every single episode of the murdered Crusade series, his presence WAS THE ESSENCE OF CRUSADE, IMO.

I agree! and actually . . . if you think about it, Jerry Doyle was in almost every (JMS said he has been in EVERY) episode of B5 including the Pilot, the only thing he wasnt in was "in the Beginning" movie (save crusade and LOTR)

[AmyG]

Wow. A lot's been going on here! I have a few things to respond to...

If they can re-cast James Bond as someone other than Sean Connery -
if they can re-cast the Phantom as someone other than Michael Crawford -
they can re-cast John and Delenn.

Hi, neo-nonconformist, and welcome to the forum. Regarding the above, it's apples and oranges. James Bond was already a well-established literary character before the first film was ever made, so arguably there were people who didn't think that Connery himself had completely 'got it,' because in the mind of the millions of readers of Fleming's books, he hadn't established the part.

As for Phantom, I'm assuming you're referring to the new film. Well, Michael Crawford may be "the Phantom" to you, and to people who saw him on Broadway...but that's a very small percentage of people. Sure, millions may have heard him on the recording, but that's not the same as cementing an audiovisual image in the minds of the audience.

The reason it's a more egregious scenario to recast the Babylon 5 characters is because those actors _established_ the roles, and most of them played their parts for nearly 110 television hours plus assorted telefilms (88 tv hours in Bruce's case, as he wasn't in first season). Heck, our B5 cast has had more hours in their roles than the Trek cast had had in _theirs_ by the time their first film rolled around!

Is there any news yet on casting-calls for other characters? I'd be expecting to see something soon...

Actually, z^3, you shouldn't be expecting to see any casting information publicly at all, except maybe for extras. Casting isn't always done publicly with "calls," especially for lead roles.

(And a general question to those who know more abour casting and the film industry than me - is it accepted procedure to put out a casting call (for Galen, for example), then invite the original actor (Peter Woodward) to apply? I know that if I were the actor in question, I would consider it a slap in the face, but you never know...)

That would be fairly bad form. If they'd intended to offer the part to Peter, they should have offered it to him first. However, I wouldn't say it's impossible, either. Especially since this is a complicated situation: the best information we have thus far is that Peter Woodward wasn't available at the time the casting process begun. I daresay that if his situation changed somewhat (either his own film's production was delayed, or funding fell through), it might be possible for the production to decide to seek him out after sending the script to other potential Galens.

No, and you make a good point. We do not know that there is even going to be a movie, or what its title is. Everything about this project (including the fact that there IS a project) is speculation based on rumors and hints.

Now grumbler, this isn't true at all! JMS himself told those of us who were at the con in NJ last May that there was a film - and he confirmed it online in his cryptic "aspect ratio" posting. And, it was JMS himself who confirmed the title of the darned thing! Now, I can't blame some for not taking the insider information that some of us have been able to get as anything more than rumor - I mean, of course I trust myself, and I'd also hope that I have enough coin in the B5 fan community that others trust me as well - but you can't sit there and tell me that you're distrusting info that has come directly from the Great Maker himself!

Sorry to jump in here, but my interpretation of events has been that the Telepath War was always slated as *the* (singular) movie.

This is curious - z^3 and others, where did you get this idea? Who in their right mind, who works in the television and film industry, would say publicly anywhere, "Hey, I only want to make one film. I only have one idea. Producers, don't offer me budgets for more than one film, 'cause I only want one!" That's like telling your division Vice President or Manager, "Don't promote me - I'm perfectly happy where I am in this cubicle farm. I have no ambition whatsoever." Not a great stance in the entertainment industry.

Certainly, JMS has said over the years that he was saving the story of the Telepath War for the big screen, but that doesn't mean that's the only story he wants to tell there.

Now, getting back to the subject and the original post...I want a film with plenty of G'Kar in it!

Amy

[circularREASON]

There are so many rumours flying around at the moment.

All any of us want is the truth. You can't blame us for that can you?

[NivenPournelle]

Originally posted by circularREASON
There are so many rumours flying around at the moment.

All any of us want is the truth. You can't blame us for that can you?

I get tired trying to sort the BS from what is true, which is a major 'job' as there is virtually no news coming from official sources. JMS himself hasn't posted anything for almost a month.

[bakana]

JMS himself hasn't posted anything for almost a month.

Which in itself is interesting.
While B5 was in production, he was online almost every night, even when he was only getting 3 hours/night sleep.
So, I think it's safe to say that, for JMS to be offline that long, he is either busier than a one armed juggler or he is being held in a Dungeon somewhere.

Or, it may be that Warner has included a "No EEPs" clause in the latest project contract.

[Macbeth]

Originally posted by bakana
Which in itself is interesting.
While B5 was in production, he was online almost every night, even when he was only getting 3 hours/night sleep.
So, I think it's safe to say that, for JMS to be offline that long, he is either busier than a one armed juggler or he is being held in a Dungeon somewhere.

Or, it may be that Warner has included a "No EEPs" clause in the latest project contract.

The other alternative is that JMS does not want to say anything and is laying low. Perhaps he is fighting the good fight around casting, script changes (remember TNT) etc and does not want the fan community involved.

I can readily see situations where bringing in the online community to fight with JMS against the studio will spin out of control and will only result in the project being canned.

Mac

[Jan]

Originally posted by bakana
While B5 was in production, he was online almost every night, even when he was only getting 3 hours/night sleep.
So, I think it's safe to say that, for JMS to be offline that long, he is either busier than a one armed juggler or he is being held in a Dungeon somewhere.

These day's it's not unusual for JMS to not post regularly. If you look at the calendar on the home page of this site, you can see several months where his post volume was in single digits. He'd always said that after B5 was finished he'd be pulling back some.

Or, it may be that Warner has included a "No EEPs" clause in the latest project contract.

He's been saying since Nov. 2003 that it's not his place to make the announcement and has expressed frustration at not being able to give us the news.

I don't think the number of posts he's not making can really tell us anything.

Jan

[grumbler]

Originally posted by AislingGrey
Now grumbler, this isn't true at all! JMS himself told those of us who were at the con in NJ last May that there was a film - and he confirmed it online in his cryptic "aspect ratio" posting. And, it was JMS himself who confirmed the title of the darned thing! Now, I can't blame some for not taking the insider information that some of us have been able to get as anything more than rumor - I mean, of course I trust myself, and I'd also hope that I have enough coin in the B5 fan community that others trust me as well - but you can't sit there and tell me that you're distrusting info that has come directly from the Great Maker himself!

When I read the transcript, I didn't see any direct mention of a feature, just the clear implication that there was to be one. So clear as to be unmistakable, but still just "hints" no matter how broad. Which is why I chide those who accept the movie without a doubt and then look at the casting issue (with only slightly less suporting evidence) and say "that cannot be true because i haven't seen any proof."

Ya gotta decide whether you believe things in the absence of proof or not. You cannot logically say that one item should be believed without proof and another should not.

[circularREASON]

good point.

[Jan]

Originally posted by grumbler
Ya gotta decide whether you believe things in the absence of proof or not. You cannot logically say that one item should be believed without proof and another should not.

Logically, no. Trust isn't necessarily a logic issue, though. I think that many most?) people have based their decision whether to believe or not based on who's delivering the news. The response here has been exceptional (and much appreciated!) but I'm sure that's because I, CE and Amy are well known here. When my friend Dani tried to break the news over on B5TV.com she was met with a fair amount of hostility as was CE when he went to new furums where he wasn't known well. Once Joe DeM jumped on, quite a few more people were convinced.

BTW, can anybody find the post where JMS talked about doing the teep war as the feature film back when? I've seen it referred to many times but I don't think I've actually seen it myself.

Thanks,
Jan

[Andrew_Swallow]

JMS mentioned the Telepath War in magazine articles.

[AmyG]

When I read the transcript, I didn't see any direct mention of a feature, just the clear implication that there was to be one. So clear as to be unmistakable, but still just "hints" no matter how broad.

Grumbler, I was _there_, in the front row of that classroom in Hawthorne (you can see my pink patent leather purse in the corner of some of the photos), and I'm telling you: he mimed an old-fashioned movie camera. You wanna tell me what else that could possibly mean?

As for the proof question, as Jan says, sometimes it's a matter of who is delivering the information, rather than whether or not there is proof that can be shown to you. Really, the issue here is not that there isn't proof; just that some people have control issues and don't believe something unless they can see it, and hold it in their hands, themselves.

And, when we began this campaign, believe you me: we realized this. We realized that we would get serious flak from a lot of the fan community, and even outright derision from some. But we were willing to risk that because we trusted the sources of the information.

Do you really think I wanted to get into virtual fistfights with people I've been corresponding with on the moderated newsgroup for years? Do you really think I wanted to be told I'm a crazy fangirl, and making a mountain out of a molehill, and that I'm gullible, credulous, and otherwise stupid and crazy? Do you think I even wanted my name associated with something as wacky and potentially credibility-shattering as a (gasp) science fiction fan letter-writing campaign?

No to all of the above. Which should go a bit farther to prove to you how convinced I am, at least, of the veracity of the information I've been dealt.

Sigh. Anyway, this is probably a moot point by now, as decisions are certainly about to be made if they haven't in fact been made already. I'm just getting so tired of the whole "well, we don't even know if this information is true, because we haven't seen any PROOF" rigamarole, I didn't want to let your post pass by without comment.

Amy

[WorkerCaste]

Most of life happens somewhere between pure faith and incontrovertable proof. If our legal system required absolute proof rather thasn imploying a standard of reasonable doubt, prosecutors would rarely gain a conviction. I'm certainly convinced beyond a reasonable doubt that TMoS is meant to be a feature film and that it's currently being mucked with.

[Capt.Montoya]

Originally posted by grumbler
When I read the transcript, I didn't see any direct mention of a feature, just the clear implication that there was to be one. So clear as to be unmistakable, but still just "hints" no matter how broad. Which is why I chide those who accept the movie without a doubt and then look at the casting issue (with only slightly less suporting evidence) and say "that cannot be true because i haven't seen any proof."

Ya gotta decide whether you believe things in the absence of proof or not. You cannot logically say that one item should be believed without proof and another should not.

You know, I get the impression that no matter how he says it, Grumbler does believe the rumors and supports the campaign.

I understand the weariness from Amy and Jan, but I fear that weariness might have make you concentrate on a few statements (negative, or just not positive enough) out of their context. If you put them in the context of the parts I emphasized you might see grumbler's comments differently.
Maybe grumbler could express himself better, or make it more explicit that he supports the letter writing?

Now let's all take a deep breath and "we will all come together in a better place" ,)

[grumbler]

Originally posted by AislingGrey
Grumbler, I was _there_, in the front row of that classroom in Hawthorne (you can see my pink patent leather purse in the corner of some of the photos), and I'm telling you: he mimed an old-fashioned movie camera. You wanna tell me what else that could possibly mean?

That is not "proof" in the eyes of some, just as was not his statement that would LIKE to comment on the casting rumors but COULD NOT. I mean, what else could that possibly mean?

Sigh. Anyway, this is probably a moot point by now, as decisions are certainly about to be made if they haven't in fact been made already. I'm just getting so tired of the whole "well, we don't even know if this information is true, because we haven't seen any PROOF" rigamarole, I didn't want to let your post pass by without comment.

I am getting tired of the same rigamarole, but can see (since I was not at Hawthorne and the transcript does NOT have JMS directly saying TMoS was a feature, AFAICT) that there are people who are willing to believe things without "proof" so long as that belief does not seem to impel them to take action. I merely wish to call them on it.

I think that the very silence of JMS on this issue is as compelling a hint as anything said at Hawthorne, frankly. If there were not a problem, he could and would say just that.