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unproduced Crusade: Tried and True?

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  • #16
    Originally posted by SpanishFan
    Wouldn't it be great if they were published with the short stories?
    Or should we keep them separated? What do you think?
    I think that'd be great. With at least a couple new short stories thown in.

    Jan
    "As empathy spreads, civilization spreads. As empathy contracts, civilization contracts...as we're seeing now.

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    • #17
      That's a great idea, a bumber lost B5/ Crusade compendium, including both scripts and regular fiction.

      It could have:

      1) Unproduced scripts from both shows, (Harlan Ellisons Demon with a Glass Hand??) including the three + Crusade scripts.
      2) The short stories from B5 magazine, I missed most of these.
      3) A couple of new stories.
      4) An overview of the Crusade writers bible.

      It would be very easy to produce, and would be a good companion the the Crusade DVD's...
      "Books and ideas are the most effective weapons against intolerance and ignorance."
      -- Lyndon Baines Johnson, February 11, 1964

      -- "Gun's don't kill people, rappers do" The GLC

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      • #18
        Call me dense, but what would happen if someone chose to actually post the 3 scripts verbatim on the boards?

        Please understand that i ask purely for information, and not out of any idea of doing such!

        Thank you.
        "We're not here because we're free. We're here because we're not free. There is no escaping reason; no denying purpose. Because as we both know, without purpose, we would not exist. It is Purpose that pulls us. That guides us. That drives us. It is purpose that defines us!"

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        • #19
          Originally posted by NivenPournelle
          Call me dense, but what would happen if someone chose to actually post the 3 scripts verbatim on the boards?

          Please understand that i ask purely for information, and not out of any idea of doing such!

          Thank you.
          Whatever moderator saw them first would delete the post(s) completely. Then they'd make sure DougO was notified. Beyond that, I don't know.

          Jan
          "As empathy spreads, civilization spreads. As empathy contracts, civilization contracts...as we're seeing now.

          Comment


          • #20
            Call me dense, but what would happen if someone chose to actually post the 3 scripts verbatim on the boards?

            Please understand that i ask purely for information, and not out of any idea of doing such!

            Thank you.
            If that person lived in the US, he/she would be in violation of US Copyright law.
            The FBI is the law enforcement body that would probably have jurisdiction as far as Arresting such a hypothetical person.
            And, I'm sure that there is at least One FBI agent who is also a B5 fan, so the agency would probably Notice.
            And Warner would almost certainly Complain.

            JMS would also probably be Livid.
            Most of those scripts are HIS Property, ie, his Bread & Butter.

            JMS was annoyed enough when the Legal postings had to be removed because of abuse by greedy dealers who copied the scripts and were trying to Sell the copies at cons.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by bakana
              JMS was annoyed enough when the Legal postings had to be removed because of abuse by greedy dealers who copied the scripts and were trying to Sell the copies at cons.
              Would you call those dealers "con artists"?

              The site where the scripts were posted went down not long after the scripts were pulled IIRC (no relation on those events AFAIK)...

              There's a site with a very good synopsis and discussion of the three scripts. That should be enough to scratch any fan's itch to get illegal copies by illegal means...
              Such... is the respect paid to science that the most absurd opinions may become current, provided they are expressed in language, the sound of which recalls some well-known scientific phrase
              James Clerk Maxwell (1831-79)

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              • #22
                I read the following sentence on this site
                http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crusade_(TV_series)

                it reads

                After the show was cancelled, Straczynski found out the reasoning behind TNT's decision. Ratings surveys taken at the time showed that the audience for Babylon 5 came only for Babylon 5, then left afterward. Likewise, TNT's main audience left when Babylon 5 started, and returned when it was over.

                is this true?

                Are we so attached to B5 that we do not see anything else?

                Frankly is this is true then I do understand why TNT stopped that show.
                What do you want? ha...!

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by hishamT

                  is this true?
                  Yes. For the story in JMS's own words, check out the transcript from the Hawthorne benefit on May 8 in the archives: http://jmsnews.net/msg.aspx?id=1-17127 . However, if this is news to you, you probably want to also read this post: http://jmsnews.net/msg.aspx?id=1-709&query=memo%20notes and this: http://jmsnews.net/msg.aspx?id=1-170...Dureena%20rape also for an idea of the tactics used.

                  Are we so attached to B5 that we do not see anything else?
                  Misleading question. We didn't want to see anything else TNT was offering at that time.

                  Frankly is this is true then I do understand why TNT stopped that show.
                  You understand why a company would deliberately plan to kill a show that it had contracted to make in such a way as to severely damage the professional reputation of the creator/writer/exec. producer? The intention was to make it impossible to fulfill their demands so that they could pull the plug and go to WB and say that JMS refused to give them the show they wanted.

                  After you research it further you'll understand our and JMS's outrage.

                  Jan
                  "As empathy spreads, civilization spreads. As empathy contracts, civilization contracts...as we're seeing now.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by hishamT
                    Frankly is this is true then I do understand why TNT stopped that show.
                    Actually, I never got this. It seems counterintuitive (not that I'm surprised by this, mind you.) I would think viewers that otherwise wouldn't tune in to your network would be desirable. If they're watching, then you at least have small chance to make them aware of your other programming and perhaps gain a few converts. As long as the ratings for the show were strong and the demographics desirable, why not take the chance? Your regular viewers know where to find you. It also seems like an oppurtunity to get new advertisers. If the audience has a different mix, perhaps you can bring in sponsers more aligned with that audience, and sell them a package which includes other timeslots. I just don't get where changing you audience out hurts you if the ratings are good.
                    "That was the law, as set down by Valen. Three castes: worker, religious, warrior."

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by WorkerCaste
                      As long as the ratings for the show were strong and the demographics desirable, why not take the chance? Your regular viewers know where to find you. It also seems like an oppurtunity to get new advertisers. If the audience has a different mix, perhaps you can bring in sponsers more aligned with that audience, and sell them a package which includes other timeslots. I just don't get where changing you audience out hurts you if the ratings are good.
                      After ratings, advertising rates are (from what I've heard) set by the number of viewers. It wasn't just that the B5 people came for B5 and left, the TNT core audience left while B5 was on and returned later which left the viewer base the same numerically. TNT wanted to increase their viewer base.

                      Jan
                      "As empathy spreads, civilization spreads. As empathy contracts, civilization contracts...as we're seeing now.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        First I would like to thank Jan for the really great links.
                        I never knew all these details, I will be frank with you, I watched B5 in Jordan on a local channal at that time, and please understand that I was sort of away from all this miss, I never knew about any problems with TNT, or all this stuff.

                        And really after reading those links I am sort of






                        especially about the suggestions made from TNT, which seems so unprofessional and so out of touch with the B5 universe

                        Thanks again every one
                        I will try to read more into the history of this delimma

                        cheers
                        Hisham
                        What do you want? ha...!

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by hishamT
                          First I would like to thank Jan for the really great links.
                          You're welcome. And welcome aboard, by the way! The archives of JMS's posts is a huge asset to us fans.

                          especially about the suggestions made from TNT, which seems so unprofessional and so out of touch with the B5 universe
                          Unfortunately the people who make such suggestions don't care a bit about quality or the shows they're meddling in. It's not just TNT, either. JMS reported when he left Jeremiah that one reason for his leaving was MGM's meddling. An example he gave was a call his casting director received demanding that they cast a 'babe' regardless of acting ability.

                          No wonder 'reality' shows abound.

                          Jan
                          "As empathy spreads, civilization spreads. As empathy contracts, civilization contracts...as we're seeing now.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Jan
                            After ratings, advertising rates are (from what I've heard) set by the number of viewers. It wasn't just that the B5 people came for B5 and left, the TNT core audience left while B5 was on and returned later which left the viewer base the same numerically. TNT wanted to increase their viewer base.

                            Jan
                            And it was more than that. TNT wanted a blend of T&A and SF that would hold their "real" (read young and/or slackjawed) audience while getting the B5 audience as well. While they later burned down their own house to get out of paying the mortgage, I think they really thought, when the interference started, that they could blend two hours of watching cars turn left with the Babylon 5 universe. They were not cretins, they were clueless.
                            I believe that when we leave a place, part of it goes with us and part of us remains. Go anywhere in the station, when it is quiet, and just listen. After a while, you will hear the echoes of all our conversations, every thought and word we've exchanged. Long after we are gone .. our voices will linger in these walls for as long as this place remains. But I will admit .. that the part of me that is going .. will very much miss the part of you that is staying.

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                            • #29
                              <<Misleading question. We didn't want to see anything else TNT was offering at that time.>>

                              TNT was meddling with everything on the network at that point. In the recently released The Death of WCW by Bryan Alvarez and RD Reynolds, they show that TNT was demanding that WCW do outrageous things to match USA Network's (at the time) WWF programming. There wasn't only meddling on TNT's part, but there was Time-Warner itself meddling. They allowed certain groups within the company to consolidate power and make decisions that were out of touch with the hardcore (no pun intended) wrestling fan base. In a way, WCW got screwed over just like Crusade did due to executives meddling in things they knew nothing about. JMS' claim that the execs wanted to do an ep with a wrestler was probably an attempt on TNT's part to get a crossover audience.
                              Recently, there was a reckoning. It occurred on November 4, 2014 across the United States. Voters, recognizing the failures of the current leadership and fearing their unchecked abuses of power, elected another party as the new majority. This is a first step toward preventing more damage and undoing some of the damage already done. Hopefully, this is as much as will be required.

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