Galen played by an imposter! Forget TmoS!!!

[Andrew_Swallow]

Originally posted by colonyearth

Secondly, they were blind to the possibility that there would be B5 fans with major connections who would find out the truth and warn the fans.

In short, they massively underestimated us. But then, they're suits and not to bright after all.

CE

What sort of person will the suits be trying to recruit?

I know the real top stars do not answer public casting calls; they are sent scripts and asked if they are interested. Would they be interested in a second hand part?

How far do we have to drop down the list before they are willing to risk someone else's fan throwing things?

[colonyearth]

You are also forgeting, Capt., that the story "leaks" may not be the full story, but purposefully slanted to exclude any roles the original characters may play. Therefore, it is likely (very likely if you ask me) that the original cast plays a much larger and perhaps even central role in the story of TMoS.

How often did a character come on board the station with news or being chased or after someone only to involve the entire cast in the affair? This is, to me, the more likely story.

This Baker and other characters (and Galen) are only a part of the tale. This story was "leaked" (again I tell you there ain't no such beast in this business -- it was on purpose) with no mention of the original characters for a reason. This reason? To prepare the fans for a B5 film without their main cast (or at least that's the way it would seem). Why? So they wouldn't be pissed (having accepted that no main cast would be in it at all) when said cast was, in fact, recast if they were to win their fight with JMS.

It's a mind game and a dirty one. Two things screwed it up.

First, we fans aren't as stupid and blind as the suits think we are (in fact we're thousands of times more intelligent than any suit -- especially B5 fans whom JMS has taught a great deal about the biz).

Secondly, they were blind to the possibility that there would be B5 fans with major connections who would find out the truth and warn the fans.

In short, they massively underestimated us. But then, they're suits and not to bright after all.

CE

[Capt.Montoya]

Originally posted by circularREASON
I mean if you follow that train of thought for a minute we should all have been in uproar when JMS had the nerve not to cast all the B5 regulars in Crusade.

If you are referring to my post at the bottom of p.4 on this thread CircularReason I'm sorry I wasn't clear enough, I didn't want to go that far into speculation, but I will to be clearer:

I speculate that JMS may have included some new leading roles to please the studios and give them an opportunity to put the "film stars" they want, instead of asking them to take the chance of having the TV series actors in the leading roles. I am almost sure that JMS then put as many of the series roles as the story demanded expecting them to be filled with the original cast (hence the re-write after Richard Bigg's death, instead of even thinking of recasting him).

The suits, instead of taking the inclusion of new lead roles as a favor and a sign of defference to their wishes, however decide that all roles should have "film actors" instead of the original "TV actors." The suits misguidedly think that people would want to see name actors in those roles, no matter who played them in the original series.

The rest of the speculation would be not mine, but the one I summarized in that previous post. I'll repost and expand on it with some speculation to prevent further confusion:

JMS has fought this according to several sources (Jan, CE, Amy), but can't comment on it publicly.
The studios leak information about a new cast and the potential recasting of Galen and Lochley, expecting that the fans won't say anything. It seems that they think that leaking the information in small pieces would lead to acceptance. They start with the part about Galen being recast, since he might not be so important a character for the fans of B5, if the fans can take this without flinching they might do the same when it's announced that Boxleitner won't play Sheridan or Jurasik won't play Mollari.

If the fans keep quiet the suits can tell JMS "see, no one minds nor cares if we replace the actors." Some people have informed us that there have been casting sheets with character descriptions that would fit established characters beyond Galen and Lochley (e.g. Delenn, Sheridan), but the only official leaks are for the new characters (and Galen).

JMS can't ask directly nor tell people anything about writing letters to WB, but he has not denied the rumors of recasting, nor said that writing letters is unnecessary, and has said instead that he'd like to say something but can't.

My train of thought would compare to the Crusade situation only if we had heard rumors that TNT had asked JMS to recast Sheridan, Delenn, Londo, etc. in any guest appearances by those characters in Crusade. Or to have a comparison to the Galen situation for TMoS, if there had been a leak of a casting call for Lochley to be recast for Crusade.

My point is that if JMS already tried to please the suits and anticipated their wishes of having "film stars" by including new leading roles the suits have no business trying to impose a recast of any B5 series character, and they should try to defer to the film producer/franchise-creator wishes on including members of the original cast reprising their roles as supporting characters for TMoS.
I will speculate that Doug Netter, who has been listed as Executive Producer in the leaked casting calls, would be on JMS's side on the idea of the series actors reprising their roles. Given their prior history on B5 projects I'd say this is more of an informed guess than just sheer speculation.

You could speculate that since it all points to the series characters (except for Galen) playing a supporting role in TMoS it would seem unlikely that the WB suits would want to mess with that, however JMS has had a chance to deny that rumor and he hasn't, and it comes from people that have connections in the industry.

There are indications that Peter Woodward may have other project that conflicts with his appearance in TMoS, as much as I'd wish that his project and TMoS could be rescheduled so that he appears as Galen I can accept it if the recasting of Galen is a necessity and JMS approves and endorses the new actor taking the mantle and staff of our beloved technomage.

But I can't accept it if Galen, Sheridan, Londo, Delenn, G'Kar, Lochley and/or any other character of the series included in the story for TMoS is recast only due to the whims of the studio suits. That is the problem of which several people have warned us and of which JMS wishes he could say something about but can't. (the underlined words are a link to that post)

[Jan]

Originally posted by circularREASON
I mean if you follow that train of thought for a minute we should all have been in uproar when JMS had the nerve not to cast all the B5 regulars in Crusade.

Not sure what you're referring to here since nothing was quoted? Why would we have been upset when JMS made it clear that there wouldn't be a lot of crossover at first?

Jan

[circularREASON]

I mean if you follow that train of thought for a minute we should all have been in uproar when JMS had the nerve not to cast all the B5 regulars in Crusade.

[Capt.Montoya]

Originally posted by ljg701
With respect Doktor he hasn't. Not being able to comment on rumours is not the same as confirming them!

Assume the following highly speculative scenario. (I have no evidence for any of the below, just my own thoughts)

[WB have made offers to some of the existing B5 actors to appear in TMOS.

Actors hold out for a higher offer.

WB says 'if you don't accept, we'll offer your roles to other actors'

WB calls B5 actors bluff.

B5 Actors cave in.]

Now, if JMS comments on any of the above he's indirectly affecting the negotiations and would no doubt irritate WB.

We may be at the 'WB calls B5 actors bluff' stage of the scenario above. If there is currently legal stuff going on with respect to contracts and payments for appearing in TMOS, there is no way on the planet JMS can say anything, as this may give the actors ammunition.

Remember how tetchy JMS got when someone tried to contact Jerry Doyle about appearing in TMOS a few months ago?

It's possible that the B5 fanbase is being manipulated here to secure higher offers for the existing B5 actors. I think there is more going on here than we realise, to some degree I think we are collectively guilty of being naive about the political manoeuvrings that go with casting a film of this nature.

Just my thoughts, I may of course be utterly wrong. Hopefully this will be resolved sooner rather than later...

I doubt the actors would be doing that.
In any event if WB wants to underpay them they would be wrong.

Those in the industry have told us some informed speculation about the political manouevring that may actually be going on:

The studio suits (WB movies, not those at WB TV with whom JMS has dealt in the past) want more recognizable "film actors" instead of the original cast in TMoS.
JMS has fought this according to several sources, but can't comment on it publicly.
The studios leak information about a new cast and the potential recasting of Galen and Lochley, expecting that the fans won't say anything.
If the fans keep quiet the suits can tell JMS "see, no one minds nor cares if we replace the actors."
JMS can't ask directly nor tell people anything about writing letters to WB, but he has not denied the rumors of recasting, nor said that writing letters is unnecessary, and has said instead that he'd like to say something but can't.

What baffles me is that it seems that JMS already put some new important roles in the script, roles that can be filled by "film star name actors." I see that as a compromise by JMS already, catering to the studios desires. The (still undenied) rumors that characters from the series would be recast, by the whims of the suits at WB films, seems much more difficult to understand, since they will play supporting roles. Which is why I think those letters supporting the original cast are so important.

[tlsmith1963]

Originally posted by Paul
I was at Wal-Mart which didn't have Crusade. BJ's Wholesale Club had one set left. I remember the frakus over the WB's B5 packaging. I had to buy replacement case fro all three sets. Loose disks were prevelent as well. I had to exchange my season 1 set due to one horribly scratched disk.

I was also very surprised that Wal-Mart didn't have Crusade. I got mine at Suncoast. I got tired of taking back scratched DVDs so I got something that takes the scratches off the DVDs. It's called DVD Doctor, I believe.

Tammy

[Paul]

I was at Wal-Mart which didn't have Crusade. BJ's Wholesale Club had one set left. I remember the frakus over the WB's B5 packaging. I had to buy replacement case fro all three sets. Loose disks were prevelent as well. I had to exchange my season 1 set due to one horribly scratched disk.

[Ariake]

Perhaps another reason as to why Crusade is not selling well: It is close to Christmas, so it is on people's wish list, but because so few stores stock it, no one can find it. I have not been able to find it in the Portland Metro Area myself. Haven't looked terribly hard, as it is on my wish list, but I do look for it when I am out. No luck. I have only seen pictures. I am very picky about condition of about 95% of everything I buy, so I generally refuse to buy things over the internet, as I prefer to choose the one in the best condition. I cannot do that over the internet, and I have been burned through Amazon too much to trust them. I have always tended to ignore Amazon and their lists anyway as I do not feel that they are an accurate representation of spending/purchasing habits. Also, I have seen nothing in regards to advertising for Crusade. I actually saw ads for Babylon 5 and the movie set, but nothing for Crusade. I had to dig through the release schedule posted at comingsoon.net to find the show's release date. Besides, if WB really wanted to sell Crusade, it would be in all of the stores and it would be selling.

[Dr Maturin]

<<People have been bitten in the past by Warner Brother's bad packaging [assembly process or bad (CHEAP) hub design leading to loose scratched discs] and they'd much rather buy the set locally, where they can ensure that they have a pristine set before they leave the store, nice, simple and direct>>

I disagree. Many other WB videos are selling much better. And I don't mean no brainer big sellers like the Matrix super duper set.

I think that Crusade's relatively weak sales are due to:

1. Ignorance of the material's existence.
2. Ignorance of the material's subject matter.
3. Reluctance in buying a cancelled show.

Of course, the third only applies to those who are not in the first two groups.

[KoshN]

Originally posted by Z'ha'dumDweller
I don't know about all this packaging stuff. I take my discs out and place them in a big CD case, letting the boxes decorate my shelves.

That's what I did with my Firefly set, and am thinking of doing with my Crusade set.

[Dr Maturin]

I don't know about all this packaging stuff. I takes my discs out and place them in a big CD case, letting the boxes decorate my shelves.

I pretty much had to with my DS9 sets, as it's a bitch to get them back into the slip case.

[KoshN]

Originally posted by Z'ha'dumDweller
<<in more ways than just buying DVDs>>

The bad thing about this is that Crusade is not selling too well. Firefly, released one year ago, is kicking its ass on amazon.com

People have been bitten in the past by Warner Brother's bad packaging [assembly process or bad (CHEAP) hub design leading to loose scratched discs] and they'd much rather buy the set locally, where they can ensure that they have a pristine set before they leave the store, nice, simple and direct, with no shipping sets back and forth between the customer and the mailorder house, and waiting for a good set to arrive, hopefully without any loose scratched discs.

Plus, some people are returning their Crusade DVD Sets in protest over Warner Brothers editing out JMS's TNT comments, deletions that were done after they'd agreed to include the comments.

Originally posted by Z'ha'dumDweller
and probably everywhere else. Granted, Firefly is fresher on people's minds and granted it was on network TV (not to mention a feature film in post-prod), but I thought Crusade would do much better. Some big chains still aren't carrying it in the store.

I had trouble finding it. Prior to this, I bought my final sets of Seasons 2 thru 5 at Wal-Mart. Had to go to Best Buy to get the Crusade set, and there are a lot fewer Best Buys around compared to Wal-Mart. Crusade would probably be doing a lot better if more stores were carrying it. Evidently, the decision was made at the corporate level, not to carry Crusade at any Wal-Mart stores. A local manager told me that she couldn't stock it if she wanted to.

On a positive note, the Crusade hub design holds onto the discs better. On a negative note, they used the Buffy Season 2 hubs, which hold onto the discs for dear life, with the "Push" button only releasing one pin (the one at 12 O'Clock).

Buffy Season 2 Bad Hub Design

[Jan]

Originally posted by bakana
I disagree. JMS simply replied to a direct question by saying I can't answer that.
He has been known offer similar replies in the past when the only "Problem" was that it was Someone Else's perquisite to make any announcements.

I understand people not accepting that JMS hasn't actually raised a red flag but there's a couple of points to make here. JMS's post *isn't* in answer to any direct question in that thread at all and the 'Danger Folks' thread wasn't the first thread on the subject. I don't know what to make of the fact that it seems to have been made in response to a wry post about Kuchner being cast. Considering how things pop up on the moderated newsgroup, it probably isn't meaningful.

People at the Studios are very Jealous of their privleges.
And one of those privleges is being the person who makes the Official Announcements about upcoming projects.

Very true, which JMS has always made clear in the past.

JMS was simply saying: I'm not ignoring the questions, I just can't answer them.
He makes a living working with the studios.
Pissing off a pissant with an MBA is Not career enhancing.

What I find the most disturbing is the paralell to what happened during Crusade. Generally, JMS will simply debunk a rumor, ignore it completely or give a simple reason why he can't comment. In the incident of the Crusade/TNT memo, JMS's response to questions was eerily like the one this week.

I know I keep repeating this, but I truly believe that polite letters to WB thanking them for the project and expressing support of the original cast can't hurt and might just help.

Jan

[Dr Maturin]

<<in more ways than just buying DVDs>>

The bad thing about this is that Crusade is not selling too well. Firefly, released one year ago, is kicking its ass on amazon.com and probably everywhere else. Granted, Firefly is fresher on people's minds and granted it was on network TV (not to mention a feature film in post-prod), but I thought Crusade would do much better. Some big chains still aren't carrying it in the store.

Onto this letter-writing topic: I tried to explain this to the people at livejournal, but for the most part they didn't listen to me. They didn't even acknowledge that I was calling for positive letters, not complaints. That said, they finally came to believe the other day. So, I posted a Heenan classic:

"I'm not the type of guy to say 'I told you so,' but...I told you so!"

I think most people who read the thread believed it, but simply did not reply. The naysayers are the ones who will reply the most.