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Seeing Into the Fire 100th time

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  • #16
    You're right, the Shadow encounter suit thingie was mentioned in the TM trilogy, but that kind of puzzles me, because Centauri guards were able to defeat two shadows, and it took a whole squadron of human security guys, high voltage electrical current, Lorien, Kosh and Sheridan to defeat one pissed off Vorlon.

    Contradiction, or is there a perfectly sound explanation, which can be found when hanging up-side-down from the seeling and looking the answer through a mirror?


    -Dip

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    • #17
      "Centauri guards were able to defeat two shadows, and it took a whole squadron of human security guys, high voltage electrical current, Lorien, Kosh and Sheridan to defeat one pissed off Vorlon."

      Yeah, but don't forget that the shadows were totally surprised by the centauri firing at them and they were invisible at that time. Maybe invisibility comes at the cost of other defensive measures the Vorlon was able to keep up although he wasn't expecting an attack either.
      Just an idea though.
      What's up Drakh?

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      • #18
        Yeah, but when Londo asks the guards holding Morden to move away, and to Morden to stay put, they don't get it ? )

        Can't say much for the IQ of Shadows

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        • #19
          Can't say much for the IQ of Shadows
          Or it simply tells you a lot about their arrogance.

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          • #20
            Also; Kosh was killed by several Shadows. Which would imply that Vorlons are stronger than Shadows.
            "En wat als tijd de helft van echtheid was, was alles dan dubbelsnel verbaal?"

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Dipper
              Contradiction, or is there a perfectly sound explanation, which can be found when hanging up-side-down from the seeling and looking the answer through a mirror?
              Some other factors that could influence it might be:

              1) The Centauri are more technologically advanced and thus the weapons might be more powerful.

              2) They had no fear of using powerful weapons since if they damaged the surrounding area, artisans would have it back just like new in no time whatsoever. Most of the weapons on B5 were chosen to hurt flesh and blood, but not infrastructure.
              "That was the law, as set down by Valen. Three castes: worker, religious, warrior."

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              • #22
                We do not actually know that the Shadows were killed. A scratching their indoor encounter suit may be sufficient to get then to leave the room.
                Andrew Swallow

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                • #23
                  Yeah, maybe the Shadows don't have much of a form of their own, so they make the spidery shells that we've come to identify as Shadows and they kind of pour themselves into the shells, and once one's shell cracks, it just kinda leaks out and dies.

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                  • #24
                    Or the Shadows are so reliant on their encounter suits that when the suits are destroyed they lose their powers and vamoose.
                    I believe that when we leave a place, part of it goes with us and part of us remains. Go anywhere in the station, when it is quiet, and just listen. After a while, you will hear the echoes of all our conversations, every thought and word we've exchanged. Long after we are gone .. our voices will linger in these walls for as long as this place remains. But I will admit .. that the part of me that is going .. will very much miss the part of you that is staying.

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                    • #25
                      Or maybe the Shadows aren't that powerful?
                      Let's face it the Shadows were puny!

                      They had no telepathic powers like Vorlons seemed to do.
                      A telepath could mess them up quite badly.
                      They were uncapable of genetic engineering of younger races.
                      They could only communicate in squeaks and pips that only few could understand.
                      They had to rely on intermediaries and emmisaries to do their bidding.
                      Their only way to "help" the younger races was to get them to kill each other.
                      The Shadows were nothing but politicians at their worst.
                      They had to rest for a thousand years in hiding before each intervention.
                      There had to be at least two to kill a Vorlon and even then a single Vorlon giving them half their attention while making telepathic last calls gave them a good fight.
                      They also chose some very bad designer for their encounter suits, all punk spikes and black, contrast them to the simplicity and elegance of the curtains, toilet seat and whack-a-mole head of the Vorlon suit, with an integrated music box that also did translations and lightshows.

                      I wonder why the Shadows weren't laughed out of the Galaxy before the time of B5!

                      Such... is the respect paid to science that the most absurd opinions may become current, provided they are expressed in language, the sound of which recalls some well-known scientific phrase
                      James Clerk Maxwell (1831-79)

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Capt.Montoya

                        I wonder why the Shadows weren't laughed out of the Galaxy before the time of B5!

                        Because they were hiding their invisible asses in shame

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                        • #27
                          "They were uncapable of genetic engineering of younger races" Originally posted by Capt Montoya.

                          I don't think they were incapable of such genetic malipulation (organic ships, organic weapons, organic encounter suits etc would suggest that they are very skilled in that dept) They also have no qualms against intefering mechanically with younger races to turn them into CPU's for their capital ships.
                          I think it's more a case of it being against their ideology. Their campaign of chaos was to help speed up natural selection not to interfere or order it. The Vorlon's who favoured order over everything else would be very much infavour of genetically altering younger species if it served their cause.
                          I have the wings for Bingo.

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                          • #28
                            Acid - Glass

                            I've always had a quick acid - glass theory for the Shadow - Vorlon easy of killing puzzle...

                            Imagen the Vorlons as acid.....terribly dangerous.......but useless against glass.......over time, the shadows made their bodies more like glass, fragile, but almost impossible for acid to hurt them.....now does that mean the centauri guns are more dangerous than a vorlon? prob no, but maybe just different enough.

                            "Try the spooo, it's fresh.........."

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                            • #29
                              They had no telepathic powers like Vorlons seemed to do.
                              A telepath could mess them up quite badly.
                              Shadow Tech, yes. The Shadows themselves, no.

                              Remember what happened to Talia the one time she got just a little Too Close to the Shadows escorting Morden around.

                              And, there is mention in the books about the Narn Telepaths going Insane from mental contact with the Shadows.
                              Yeah, telepaths could mess up the Shadow ships, but messing with the Shadows in person was Dangerous. Likely to be Fatal.

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                              • #30
                                Hmm. I've always thought that for such an old race the shadows have some odd things about them - like that the Centauri guards could indeed kill them just like that, and also that they're not apparently even incorporeal, which would be odd. If the black form was just an encounter suit, it'd explain the incorporeal part, but still not how they're apparently so easy to kill. I mean, while it's not shown, it seems Sheridan killed/hurt at least that one Shadow in Z'Ha'Dum with his PPG.

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