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back to basics.....

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  • back to basics.....

    As a family, we have been watching S4 of B5 again and have just got to Ivanova's 'fatal' injury. This made us think. JMS has stated in the past that Marcus' death made a dramatic high point for the show, because he loved another so much that he would lay down his life for that one. But just how accurate is this? On reflection, and after this new re-viewing, we realised that it would have been far more dramatic if Susan had infact died rather that Marcus. Think about it....Marcus dies and Susan and Stephen cry a bit, and that's it!

    He was a Ranger and faced death for a greater part of the time, as well as being only a semi-permanent fixture on the station, with the possibility of being called away at any time looming as a very real factor - for drama within the show it was a rather minor event. Claudia and Rick got ONE GOOD SCENE from it and then it was over!

    Imagine the impact that Ivanova's death would have caused. As a character, she was the backbone of the station. Everything went through her. Everyone on B5 and within the Whitestar fleet would have felt the loss, from personal friendships to the command structure - EVERYONE would have felt it. Marcus' death just didn't have that.

    Also, it would have made the point that every action has a cost - the core theme of the whole show - This would have been the very real cost to Sheridan of his campaign.

    What do you folks think????
    Marcus dies
    Susan dies

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  • #2
    As someone deeply moved by Marcus's sacrifice I disagree with you.
    It was not a minor event, it was one that gave the ending to a storyline that developed over the years, that of Marcus being in love with Ivanova but unable to express that. And a story of Ivanova starting to return those feelings but still so hurt by the Talia betrayal that she never gave herself the chance to give Marcus an opportunity.
    Marcus's sacrifice did show that each action has a cost, even if not the highest cost this was a consequence of Ivanova's defeat of Clark's Shadow Tech Fleet, but it was also a personal cost, one that Marcus wilfully assumed.
    The consequences would have been shown more clearly had Claudia Christian signed for a fourth season, Ivanova would then have been involved in the Telepath Colony storyline, looking to Byron for what she lost in Marcus.
    Such... is the respect paid to science that the most absurd opinions may become current, provided they are expressed in language, the sound of which recalls some well-known scientific phrase
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    • #3
      I would have thought it more fitting to the B5 ethos had Ivanova died. The story was about sacrifice, and in a sense Marcus's action robbed Ivanova of her self-chosen sacrifice while she was helpless to stop him.

      Marcus surviving as a self-doomed person would have made the tag line ...that there could always be new beginnings... even for people like us" even more compelling.

      Look at "Sleeping in Light" one more time. Imagine marcus in Ivanova's seat at the table, or in the "final depature" scene. One of the six of the sixteen "featured cast" still alive. It is much more powerful, as his "survivor's guilt" is so much more palpable.
      I believe that when we leave a place, part of it goes with us and part of us remains. Go anywhere in the station, when it is quiet, and just listen. After a while, you will hear the echoes of all our conversations, every thought and word we've exchanged. Long after we are gone .. our voices will linger in these walls for as long as this place remains. But I will admit .. that the part of me that is going .. will very much miss the part of you that is staying.


      • #4
        I disagree. I think Ivanova's survivor's guilt is more palpable for the specific reason that she believes Marcus should have let her die and lived himself. She had resigned herself to dying when she asked Sheridan to tell her the truth, and she knew Marcus was alright and would continue the fight. But he gave up himself for her. She didn't believe herself to be worthy of such a sacrifice. So the "even for people like us" feels especially poignant to me.


        • #5
          Having read all the threads, I have to go with Cpt Montoya on this one. Ivanova's death would (possibly) have made it a more interesting story for us (seeing how they try regain the information that Ivanova had, replacing her as station commander, etc), but Marcus' death made it more heartfelt due to the reasons that CM and Vacantlook stated.

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          • #6
            "If there's a gun on the wall in act one, scene one, you must fire the gun by act three, scene two. If you fire a gun in act three, scene two, you must see the gun on the wall in act one, scene one."

            I always seemed to me that Marcus was made for that kind of sacrifice. So much of his character pointed to that. Maybe it's not a direct case of showing a gun, but in many respects I have a hard time picturing a significantly different fate for Marcus. It really is a shame that much of the dramatic impact was lost because we couldn't stay with Ivanova in the story.
            "That was the law, as set down by Valen. Three castes: worker, religious, warrior."


            • #7
              Originally posted by Capt.Montoya
              ...had Claudia Christian signed for a fourth season, Ivanova would then have been involved in the Telepath Colony storyline, looking to Byron for what she lost in Marcus.
              And I would have hated the Byron character that much more.