Geometry of Shadows

[elver]

Uh. Regarding that episode. The events therein were completely different from what happened in the Technomage trilogy of books... Nothing blew up as it should have and there was no subplot with the female Centauri technomage. Anyone know why?

[Jan]

Re: Geometry of Shadows

Originally posted by elver
Uh. Regarding that episode. The events therein were completely different from what happened in the Technomage trilogy of books... Nothing blew up as it should have and there was no subplot with the female Centauri technomage. Anyone know why?

The only difference I'm aware of is that the timing of the ship explosion is off. I think it's just an error that got by.

Since there was no mention of *any* of the other techno-mages in the episode (even though we know that Londo saw three himself), I assume that the answer to the no subplot question is '43 minutes of story available' or 'She didn't exist as a character until the book'.

I noticed several points in the Centauri Trilogy where Vir was present during things we'd seen but never noticed him attending. I thought that was cool. The viewpoint in the books was different from the one in the episodes.

Jan

[elver]

Re: Re: Geometry of Shadows

Originally posted by Jan
The only difference I'm aware of is that the timing of the ship explosion is off. I think it's just an error that got by.

Uh. I just rewatched that episode. From the moment that Sheridan is told over the link that the technomages are leaving to the very end. NOTHING blew up. The technomages just left through the jumpgate and that's that.

[Jan]

Re: Re: Re: Geometry of Shadows

Originally posted by elver
Uh. I just rewatched that episode. From the moment that Sheridan is told over the link that the technomages are leaving to the very end. NOTHING blew up. The technomages just left through the jumpgate and that's that.

It's been a long time since I've read the books or even seen the episode. I don't dispute what you're saying at all. Weren't there two techno-mage ships, though? One was the decoy they knew was likely to be sabotaged?

It doesn't change the fact that it was an error, plain and simple.

Jan

[elver]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Geometry of Shadows

Originally posted by Jan
It's been a long time since I've read the books or even seen the episode. I don't dispute what you're saying at all. Weren't there two techno-mage ships, though? One was the decoy they knew was likely to be sabotaged?

It doesn't change the fact that it was an error, plain and simple.

Jan

Yes, according to the books, there were 2 ships. One real and one decoy (with a few technomages on it, but still). The decoy was blown to bits and Sheridan's reaction to it in the book was something along the lines of "He knew! He knew this was going to happen! What was it that he said? ..." The part starting with "What was it that he said?" was what made it into the show.

The thing is, I seem to remember from watching B5 a few years ago on TV that the technomage ship did blow up. So, uh, was this some strange cut for the DVDs? Any word from JMS regarding this?

[Jan]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Geometry of Shadows

Originally posted by elver
The thing is, I seem to remember from watching B5 a few years ago on TV that the technomage ship did blow up. So, uh, was this some strange cut for the DVDs? Any word from JMS regarding this?

I've never seen anything from JMS about it that I recall. Though I've seen discussion of this particular discrapancy before. One person I recall decided that the TM trilogy 'didn't happen' because of the difference.

The only differences I know of between the televised episodes and the DVDs is that the credits are off in several cases because in B5 they 'evolved' even during seasons but only one (I'm pretty sure) master of the credits was used per season on the DVDs except for The Corps is Mother, The Corps is Father. Of course, in a few cases, even the episodes changed after the first airing-particularly Comes the Inquisitor. I'm pretty sure that the DVD cut of Geometry is the same as the TV version. I definitely remember Sheridan quoting the 'dreamers, shapers, singers, makers' snippet from Elric as he looked at the orange blossom. Do we actually see the TM ship go through the jumpgate in the episode?

Jan

[elver]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Geometry of Shadows

Originally posted by Jan
Do we actually see the TM ship go through the jumpgate in the episode?

Yup. Down the vortex it goes.

[B5_Obsessed]

If Cavelos had simply written that the ship exploded in hyperspace, everything would've been fine.

[elver]

Originally posted by B5_Obsessed
If Cavelos had simply written that the ship exploded in hyperspace, everything would've been fine.

Didn't JMS get to edit Cavelos' novel?

[Jan]

Originally posted by elver
Didn't JMS get to edit Cavelos' novel?

Not that I know of. He did provide the outline and I'm pretty sure that he was given the chance to read the end product. That's different from editing, though.

Looking at when the TM trilogy books came out and going back several months to allow for the delay between writing and publishing, JMS had a whole lot going on which might explain his missing the error. Just scanning a little of late 2000/early 2001 posts, I see that he had Jeremiah, City of Dreams, Amazing SpiderMan, the Rising Stars feature film script, Midnight Nation, Delicate Creatures and writing the Rangers Pilot all on his keyboard around that time.

To us it's a pretty glaring error but to him it was the final scene (I checked) in a script he wrote back in 1994.

Jan

[elver]

Originally posted by Jan
To us it's a pretty glaring error but to him it was the final scene (I checked) in a script he wrote back in 1994.

Oh. That would make sense, then. Any idea why it was cut from the shooting script or during editing?

[Jan]

Originally posted by elver
Oh. That would make sense, then. Any idea why it was cut from the shooting script or during editing?

I'm sorry, I was unclear. JMS didn't write a scene where the TM ship exploded. The scene I was referring to was the final scene of Geometry where the TM ship went through the jumpgate. It could had just slipped JMS' mind. In fact, he might have even missed it if he did do a quick check of the script because that one shot was all alone on the final page of the script. At first I thought that the Sheridan looking at the orange blossom was the final scene myself until I checked that last page.

Jan

[grumbler]

My view on this, with no evidence at all to support it, is that "God blinked" and the canon changed between Geometry and the trilogy - that JMS would have the Technomage ship blow up in a re-shoot of Geometry if he could. It would have made for a much more powerful ending to the show, and fit in better with what happened later.

[bakana]

We could also just assume that the scene which appears in the Book, but Not in the episode just wouldn't FIT into the previously mentioned 43 minutes.

What is the Chronology? of both.

You can't tell if there's a problem without a Timeline...

[elver]

Originally posted by bakana
We could also just assume that the scene which appears in the Book, but Not in the episode just wouldn't FIT into the previously mentioned 43 minutes.

This would be like making a movie about 9/11 and leaving out the part where the planes crash into the towers.

Actually, Cavelos' story fits into the episode just fine, but then you'd have to conclude that they left out major bits of what happened in the original episode. Things like a starcruiser blowing up outside B5. Kinda hard to hide.