Watching B5 with C&T - S4

[alpha128]

I can't even imagine INTERSECTIONS being the end of Season Four. I feel that would have just been gut-wrenching, but I would have greatly enjoyed it if INTERSECTIONS had been a Season Finale followed by another entire Season Five of the Civil War. Start the Season with, like, ten episodes of not knowing what happened to Sheridan at all. Then have a two part rescue episode followed by several episodes leading up to ENDGAME, RISING STAR, and DECONSTRUCTION. Then what was Season Five becomes Season Six, the start of a new five season arc.

Where are we on that time machine?

IMO "Intersections in Real Time" would have been an effective season finale. Then the rescue of Sheridan, and the action packed battle for Earth, would have kicked off Season 5 nicely.

As for Season 6, the video below is about as close as you're going to get to your time machine.

[Looney]

Plan A was "Intersections in Real Time"

I can't even imagine INTERSECTIONS being the end of Season Four. I feel that would have just been gut-wrenching, but I would have greatly enjoyed it if INTERSECTIONS had been a Season Finale followed by another entire Season Five of the Civil War. Start the Season with, like, ten episodes of not knowing what happened to Sheridan at all. Then have a two part rescue episode followed by several episodes leading up to ENDGAME, RISING STAR, and DECONSTRUCTION. Then what was Season Five becomes Season Six, the start of a new five season arc.

Where are we on that time machine?

[alpha128]

DECONSTRUCTION is a a horse of a different feather. LOL I can see people being lost and confused by it. It really is a bit of "next level" brilliant. I wish so many series had been able to do that type of episode. The only negative is that it placed boundaries on the future expansion of the B5 Universe. ;-)

Yes, "The Deconstruction of Falling Stars" is an atypical season finale. I remember that someone complained about it on the old IMDb Babylon 5 board. I explained to them (more thoroughly than I explained to C & T) that "The Deconstruction of Falling Stars" was a Plan C finale. Plan A was "Intersections in Real Time", while Plan B was "Sleeping in Light". I then said, "May all our Plan C efforts turn out as well."

[Looney]

I was really wondering how they would react to DECONSTRUCTION OF FALLING STARS. The other two episodes are just so great I don't think anyone who has taken the entire journey could react negatively to them. DECONSTRUCTION is a a horse of a different feather. LOL I can see people being lost and confused by it. It really is a bit of "next level" brilliant. I wish so many series had been able to do that type of episode. The only negative is that it placed boundaries on the future expansion of the B5 Universe. ;-)

[alpha128]

No, JMS only said that it was somebody meddling with SOL and that it might have been caused by said somebody opening jump points inside the sun to reduce its mass (iirc). But we don't know more than that. Many have speculated that there was a shadow-equivalent doing it but as far as I know JMS never confirmed.

Yes, JMS wrote "And what if you, say, interfered substantially with the mass of the sun by, say, causing a series of jump points to open up *inside* the sun across several days?" I was wondering if there was more to the story. I guess not.

Loved how C got their wires crossed a bit on Ivanova. CC didn't ask for more money until much later!

Yes, I'm curious to see how they will react to Ivanova's return in "Sleeping in Light". I still remember my reaction. The cool thing about it is you hear Ivanova before you see her. I remember realizing just how much I missed her when I heard her voice.

[Jan]

Fellow JMSNews members - was the full story ever revealed? In any event, I explained that one million years in the future humans have essentially become the Vorlons, and that "New Earth" was the former Vorlon homeworld.

No, JMS only said that it was somebody meddling with SOL and that it might have been caused by said somebody opening jump points inside the sun to reduce its mass (iirc). But we don't know more than that. Many have speculated that there was a shadow-equivalent doing it but as far as I know JMS never confirmed.

Loved how C got their wires crossed a bit on Ivanova. CC didn't ask for more money until much later!

[alpha128]

"Endgame"

I introduced this one by reminding them that in "No Surrender, No Retreat", Sheridan had declared, "We're going to take back our home. Or die trying." I said this was it: Endgame.

At the beginning, when Marcus was watching over Ivanova, C smugly reiterated her "knowledge" that Ivanova was going to die because Claudia Christian asked for more money. T said, "We don't know that." C replied, "I do know that, I looked it up on the Internet. Tell him I'm right." I said, "You'll find out." C also remarked that Delenn looked like she was constipated.

C referred to Sheridan's fleet, waiting in hyperspace, as "quite the traffic jam." She also asked me the significance of Sheridan's ship the Agamemnon. I said he was a Greek hero who won the Trojan War only to be killed when he got home.

T as usual enjoyed the humor, e.g., Garibaldi's "Snow White" inspired radio codes and Gen. Lefcourt's assessment that "the enemy just pulled our shorts up over our head and tied them into a knot." Unfortunately they didn't seem to recognize Lefcourt from "In the Beginning", as neither of them mentioned that they remembered him from the movie.

When the senator picked up the late President Clark's note, T asked if that was some sort of code. I said if you look closely, you'll see the circled letters spell out "Scorched Earth". And when the senator informed Sheridan the particle beams were about to level 40% of the Earth's surface, C said, "Danger! Danger!"

C didn't understand Delenn's comment "We are there", since she was at Earth entire time. I explained that the Minbari ships were in the back, while the Earth Destroyers and White Stars were leading the assault. So Delenn was essentially saying they were moving to front lines.

When the jump point formed as the Agamemnon was about to collide with the defense platform, C asked what ship that was, and I told her it was the Apollo.

At the end, when we saw Marcus and Ivanova connected to the alien healing device, C was starting to show signs of confusion, "But, he's the best looking guy on the show, and he didn't ask for more money..." T said, "So we still don't know what's going to happen to her." I said, "You'll find out in the next episode."


"Rising Star"

Prior to starting this one I said it would deal with the aftermath of Sheridan's return to Earth, and bring closure to such plot points as the telepath virus and Ivanova's fate. C said once again, "I know what happens. She died because she asked for more money." Right before the opening titles, C gave me the reaction I had expected for Keffer's death way back at the end of Season 2, "Don't tell me they're going to kill off the only good looking guy on the show?!?"

When Franklin got back to the station and found Ivanova sitting on the Medlab floor T said, "She seems to have made a remarkable recovery." But C was still trying to reconcile her inaccurate data from the Internet by saying, "I know what happens. I could write this show, she'll turn on the machine again - in reverse!

T appreciated the humor as usual, particularly enjoying the General's discovery that Sheridan was now President of the Interstellar Alliance, and Londo's comment to G'Kar about rice.

Both C & T were happy to see Sheridan's father emerge unscathed from his captivity. And they both seemed engaged by the episode, even though there wasn't a lot of action and much of it played out through ISN reports.

Upon reaching Delenn's closing words, that I recently paraphrased here, C asked if this was the final episode. I said, "No, they were prepared to end the show after four seasons, but got a last minute reprieve." T said the conclusion of "Rising Star" made it feel like a series finale, and I agreed.


"The Deconstruction of Falling Stars"

While we were waiting for C to join us, T speculated that since this was the season finale it would end on a cliffhanger. I said, "Normally you'd be right". When C sat down, I went on to explain that due to the show's last minute renewal for a fifth season, we would see (in the words of JMS) "a series of short stories set in the 'Babylon 5' universe."

I reminded them that in previous episode the Interstellar Alliance was founded, and Sheridan and Delenn got married. T laughed at pretty much everything Londo said upon his arrival back on the station. He also enjoyed the ISN "Night Side" program quite a bit.

During the 2362 vignette, C said that the 140 year-old Delenn "looked pretty good for her age." When we got to 2762, C asked if Delenn was still alive, and I said, "No she's dead. They're all long dead. During the holographic simulation of Franklin, C remarked "This is weird."

When we got to 3262, T asked if things had really regressed that far after the "Great Burn" and I said yes. C asked about the picture in the book Brother Michael was illuminating and I said it depicted a Ranger. Later, when Brother Alwyn opened his wardrobe and pulled out his uniform, I explained that he was one of the Rangers. Around this time, C said "This is a strange way to end the series." I said this wasn't the end of the series, but the season. C had assumed that this episode was intended to be the series finale, and I explained that the original series finale was held back until end of the next season.

During the final sequence, C asked what was happening and I said the sun was going to explode and take the Earth with it. C noted the unusual timing, stating that the sun was supposed to last several billion more years. I know that when this episode first aired, JMS had hinted that somebody caused the sun to explode prematurely. But since I never saw a definitive explanation of what happened, I let the matter drop. Fellow JMSNews members - was the full story ever revealed? In any event, I explained that one million years in the future humans have essentially become the Vorlons, and that "New Earth" was the former Vorlon homeworld.

That's it until next time. After a holiday break, I'll be back with Watching B5 with C&T - S5!

[Looney]

[*]It had the (unintended) consequence of making Sheridan's mock execution even more believable

I guess I can see that as being a good outcome.

[alpha128]

GOOD GRAVY!!!!! Now that is some episode engagement. I knew C was secretly obsessed and doing behind the scenes research on the show. Glad C hasn't seen too many spoilers.

I don't know how much research she has done, but it seems to focus on the cast. She mentioned in the past she looked up Peter Jurasik, and more recently alluded to Jeff Conaway's tragic end. Apparently she read something along the lines of "Claudia Christian was replaced by Tracy Scoggins for Season 5", and assumed that Ivanova was killed off. She may know that Jason Carter also leaves at the end of Season 4, as she made a cryptic remark along the lines of "There are more characters to kill off."

I can't believe you caved in and told C Sheridan wasn't free by the end.

1. You had to be there
2. It had the (unintended) consequence of making Sheridan's mock execution even more believable

[Looney]

GOOD GRAVY!!!!! Now that is some episode engagement. I knew C was secretly obsessed and doing behind the scenes research on the show. Glad C hasn't seen too many spoilers.

I can't believe you caved in and told C Sheridan wasn't free by the end.

[alpha128]

"Intersections in Real Time"

As we waited for C to join us, T asked me if this episode featured any "special guest stars" like Scott Adams or Harlan Ellison and I said no.

I introduced this one by reminding them that Sheridan had been captured by the Clark administration, and told them this episode carried on from the last one. I also said this was very much like a filmed play. C said, "I hope this isn't 45 minutes of Sheridan being tortured." I said nothing in response.

About ten minutes in, C said, "I can't take this, is Sheridan freed by the end of the episode?" I tried to be evasive, but C was having none of it - "Just tell me!" she pleaded. I said, "No he isn't".

T chuckled when Sheridan said, "I'm sure it's lunchtime somewhere".

After Sheridan's interrogator told him, "I'll be back when they've had a chance to clean up the place," C said "Oh God" in response.

A bit later C said, "I would think they would let him go to the bathroom!" I replied, "They don't really address that in the episode."

When the security guards brought in the Drazi "captive", C & T asked me who that was. I answered it was a Drazi, one of the alien species. The phone rang while the Drazi was giving his "confession", and I paused the DVD. C answered the phone, and actually seemed to be in a hurry to end the conservation and get back to the episode. When the guards reappeared and started to strap the Drazi to a gurney C said, "Oh no, they're going to kill him. I don't like this violence."

When Delenn "appeared" in the cell T asked, "What is she doing there?" I replied, "She's not really there. She's his tower of strength."

As Sheridan was being wheeled down the hall C said, "I don't want to watch this." T said, "You don't have to watch it if you don't want to." I said, "Just watch it." T then said, "We have to learn who's behind the hood. I bet it's a surprise." I said, "Yes it is."

As the episode ended C asked, "Is the next episode so grisly?" I told her no.

After the episode, C wanted me to explain the events at the end. I said that Sheridan got a mock execution that was all for show and demoralizing effect. I also explained that the Drazi was working with the interrogators the whole time. C then asked me what the Drazi's motivation was. I said I didn't know. Maybe he was doing it for money, maybe Earthgov had some of his family members in custody, and that this particular plot point is never explained.

C then asked me about the events going on outside the dome, e.g., what was Garibaldi doing? I reminded her that Bester had telepathically enhanced Garibaldi's distrust and paranoia to use him to uncover the conspiracy against the Psi Corps. The good news is that Garibaldi is now himself again. The bad news is that nobody else knows that Garibaldi was under Bester's influence when he betrayed Sheridan. I said that Sheridan was on Mars and that Garibaldi was still on Mars. I also reminded them that Franklin and Lyta and their cargo of telepaths are also on Mars. C then asked if they were really holding Sheridan's father and I said yes. Finally, C asked me again about the telepath disease and speculated that the Psi Corps destroyed it. I said, "Your logic is impeccable and you'll find out what happened to it before the season is out."


"Between the Darkness and the Light"

Before the start I noted that this episode picked up right where the previous one left off, prompting C to refer to it as "the horrible one." But she was referring to the events of "Intersections in Real Time", not its quality, as she noted, "I don't like seeing people get hurt."

During the opening titles, one of them mentioned that they hadn't seen Zack in a while, and I said, "There haven't been many scenes on the station lately."

As with other episodes that frequently switch locales, there was not a lot of commentary from C & T, as they were focused on keeping up with the plot.

The opening scene caused a lot of confusion, as C & T were having difficulty distinguishing Sheridan's drug-induced hallucinations from reality. I had to pause the playback and explain it to them.

T enjoyed what humor there was, e.g., Lyta's "I'm gonna sue somebody!" remark.

C keeps asking me if Londo has his keeper yet. Apparently she expects the show is going to pull another "Captain Jack" and have Londo get his keeper off-screen.

When Ivanova's White Star was hit, C surprised me by saying, "Oh, is this where she dies?" I said, "What?" C replied, "I know she dies, there was a contract dispute and they killed off her character." I just said, "Watch." So apparently C had done some spoilerific research on the show at some point.

When Sheridan got back to the fleet, they asked me if he was on a ship or the station, and I told them. When Sheridan saw Delenn in the hallway, to prevent any potential confusion, I said, "He's really there and he's really seeing her."

At the end, C asked me why Sheridan went back to the Agamemnon, and I said it was a symbol that he was leading the battle for Earth from an Earth Alliance ship.

After the episode ended, C reiterated her "knowledge" of Ivanova's impending death, adding, "That will teach you to ask for more money!" I'm going to try my best to keep "Sleeping in Light" a surprise!

[alpha128]

I only just got caught up here, that last post was great. Awesome to see them so engaged with the show.

Thanks for reading and posting.

[Ubik]

I only just got caught up here, that last post was great. Awesome to see them so engaged with the show.

[alpha128]

You know what the problem is with these forums? No "Like" buttons! That was a great read, thanks!

Glad you enjoyed it! Thanks for reading and posting!

This seems it might be the most C has ever been engaged. How is C just now discovering Bester is creepy. Can't wait until sees THE CORPS IS MOTHER, THE CORPS IS FATHER.

I guess this was Bester at maximum creepiness. I think it's his biggest monologue in the entire series.

[Looney]

You know what the problem is with these forums? No "Like" buttons! That was a great read, thanks!

HAHAHAHA so very true.

This seems it might be the most C has ever been engaged. How is C just now discovering Bester is creepy. Can't wait until sees THE CORPS IS MOTHER, THE CORPS IS FATHER.