Watching B5 with C&T - S4

[alpha128]

There's this which is similar:

Yeah, that could be it. Thanks, Jan.

[Jan]

I don't think they did.

However, I seem to recall JMS once said about foreshadowing, "If everybody gets it I've failed. If nobody gets it I've failed. If some people get it, then I've succeeded."

Does anybody else remember a JMS quote like that?

There's this which is similar:

No, the whole point of a mystery done *right* is that some folks won't ever
figure it out, a majority of them will have some vague ideas, and some *will*
figure it out. That's the only outcome -- a bell-shaped curve -- if you're
playing fair with the audience. The clues have to be out there, and if they
are, some will notice. If nobody gets it, you didn't play fair. This was
one of the lessons I learned working on MURDER, SHE WROTE.

jms

[Ubik]

Yeah I really don't like it when opening credit sequences give spoilers.

Yes I hope they enjoy having a proper villain like Cartagia. lol Say what you will about the other villains, they all have motivations that seem less frightening than Cartagia's motives, cruelty and insanity. I don't think any of the other villains really touch that unless you want to talk about some of the single episode one-off villains like Karl Mueller in The Quality of Mercy, 1.21.

I think one thing that really works for Vir's weight loss is that he has been under so much stress. I know it had more to do with Stephen's health choices, but it still works with the plot even though they don't directly bring it up.

The best thing about Lyta's eyes is that it pretty much screams she is not really in the same league with other Telepaths anymore. I hope C & T picked up on that aspect of it.

I wish they could have let the Sheridan mystery go for awhile before revealing the end of the cliffhanger. I completely understand it though. There is sooo much to squeeze into Season 4 they couldn't really stall for the sake of mystery and drama.

Yeah when I just yell stuff like that to myself it doesn't even do me any good.

Yes I often wonder how many times Marcus knocked himself unconscious while he was trying to learn how to put it away in his cloak.

Tell C.

Tick - Just learn to love it.
Tock - Or Lorien won't share any life-force with you when the time comes.

Tell C I was never too keen on the Lorien thing either! Unsure why, it just never quite worked for me.

[babylonlurker]

I don't think they did.

However, I seem to recall JMS once said about foreshadowing, "If everybody gets it I've failed. If nobody gets it I've failed. If some people get it, then I've succeeded."

Does anybody else remember a JMS quote like that?

That sounds right, I seem to recall something like that from JMS.

[alpha128]

The best thing about Lyta's eyes is that it pretty much screams she is not really in the same league with other Telepaths anymore. I hope C & T picked up on that aspect of it.

I don't think they did.

However, I seem to recall JMS once said about foreshadowing, "If everybody gets it I've failed. If nobody gets it I've failed. If some people get it, then I've succeeded."

Does anybody else remember a JMS quote like that?

[Looney]

In this thread I'll be sharing observations as we watch Season 4.

"The Hour of the Wolf"

I gave no real introduction to this one, and that turned out to be fine as this episode opens with a recap of "Z'ha'dum".

I simply said, "New season, new year (2261), new title sequence." T's reaction to the new opening credits was that Sheridan must still be alive since he's in the credits.

Yeah I really don't like it when opening credit sequences give spoilers.

After the emperor's declaration that he was going to be elevated to godhood I told them, "He's quite mad, you know." And C said "Caligula" in response. I said, "Yes, that's why he was named 'Cartagia'." Later when Londo told Vir that they must kill Cartagia C said, "That's what they did to Caligula."

Yes I hope they enjoy having a proper villain like Cartagia. lol Say what you will about the other villains, they all have motivations that seem less frightening than Cartagia's motives, cruelty and insanity. I don't think any of the other villains really touch that unless you want to talk about some of the single episode one-off villains like Karl Mueller in The Quality of Mercy, 1.21.

Speaking of Vir, when he arrived on Centauri Prime, T asked if it was the same actor. I said at first, "I think his hair different" but soon added, "He might have lost some weight too." When they went in for a close-up of Vir's face, C said, "He did lose weight."

I think one thing that really works for Vir's weight loss is that he has been under so much stress. I know it had more to do with Stephen's health choices, but it still works with the plot even though they don't directly bring it up.

When White Star arrived at Z'ha'dum, C commented about Lyta's eyes turning black. I said that sometimes happens when she's doing her telepath stuff.

The best thing about Lyta's eyes is that it pretty much screams she is not really in the same league with other Telepaths anymore. I hope C & T picked up on that aspect of it.

As we neared the end T said he had expected to find out what had happened to Sheridan by now. But he ended up having to wait another five minutes or so to get his answer.

I wish they could have let the Sheridan mystery go for awhile before revealing the end of the cliffhanger. I completely understand it though. There is sooo much to squeeze into Season 4 they couldn't really stall for the sake of mystery and drama.

"Whatever Happened to Mr. Garibaldi?"

When Lorien was telling Sheridan, "Words have meaning and names have power", C quipped, "So I have power when I call Trump 'a jackass'?" I responded, "Only if he tweets you back."

Yeah when I just yell stuff like that to myself it doesn't even do me any good.

T got a good laugh when G'Kar accidentally extended Marcus' Minbari fighting pike.

Yes I often wonder how many times Marcus knocked himself unconscious while he was trying to learn how to put it away in his cloak.

C did not like the scene where Lorien and Sheridan were arguing about "surrendering to Tock", calling it "stupid".

Tell C.

Tick - Just learn to love it.
Tock - Or Lorien won't share any life-force with you when the time comes.

[Ubik]

After the episode, C asked me to confirm that Cartagia was based on Caligula, which I did. T then remarked that Caligula was "a nasty guy". I said, "You'll see that Cartagia is a nasty guy too." C then told us stories about Caligula, how he had poisoned his grandmother and how he made his horse a priest. The final story was how in "I, Claudius", Caligula impregnated his sister and then killed her and their child to keep the child from becoming a greater god then he. I said the only part of all that which was relevant to the B5 story was Cartagia's desire to be a god.

Thanks for this update. A tad off topic, but the BBC's 'I, Claudius' is awesome, well worth a watch if you haven't seen it. More like watching a theatre production committed to film than a modern TV show, but it's utterly superb. You can tack it onto the two seasons of HBOs Rome and it makes for a nice bookend.

[alpha128]

I previously posted on this forum B5 first watch threads documenting the reactions of non-science fiction fans "C" and "T" to Season 1 (condensed), Season 2 and Season 3.

In this thread I'll be sharing observations as we watch Season 4.

"The Hour of the Wolf"

I gave no real introduction to this one, and that turned out to be fine as this episode opens with a recap of "Z'ha'dum".

I simply said, "New season, new year (2261), new title sequence." T's reaction to the new opening credits was that Sheridan must still be alive since he's in the credits.

At the beginning, when Delenn said "He did not come again, I told them she was referring to the new Vorlon ambassador.

T got a laugh from Garibaldi's "household god" Daffy Duck.

After the emperor's declaration that he was going to be elevated to godhood I told them, "He's quite mad, you know." And C said "Caligula" in response. I said, "Yes, that's why he was named 'Cartagia'." Later when Londo told Vir that they must kill Cartagia C said, "That's what they did to Caligula."

Speaking of Vir, when he arrived on Centauri Prime, T asked if it was the same actor. I said at first, "I think his hair different" but soon added, "He might have lost some weight too." When they went in for a close-up of Vir's face, C said, "He did lose weight."

When the Minister told Londo that Cartagia talks to the severed heads of his detractors, C asked rhetorically if they talked back.

When White Star arrived at Z'ha'dum, C commented about Lyta's eyes turning black. I said that sometimes happens when she's doing her telepath stuff.

As we neared the end T said he had expected to find out what had happened to Sheridan by now. But he ended up having to wait another five minutes or so to get his answer.


"Whatever Happened to Mr. Garibaldi?"

As we were waiting for C to join us, T asked me when tonight's episode originally aired. I looked up the answer in the DVD booklet and told him 11/11/1996, or twenty-two years ago.

I began by recapping the plot points of the previous episode: 1.) Sheridan was seen apparently alive at Z'had'um, 2.) G'Kar has gone off searching for Mr. Garibaldi, and 3.) Cartagia is mad and Londo wants to kill him.

When Lorien was telling Sheridan, "Words have meaning and names have power", C quipped, "So I have power when I call Trump 'a jackass'?" I responded, "Only if he tweets you back." http://instantrimshot.com/

When Lorien told Sheridan he was dead, C asked, "Is that true?" I replied, "Kosh told him that if he went to Z'ha'dum he would die."

T got a good laugh when G'Kar accidentally extended Marcus' Minbari fighting pike.

When Londo was describing G'Kar's future death by vivisection, C said "That's terrible!" I then said Londo was going to give G'Kar an alternative.

C did not like the scene where Lorien and Sheridan were arguing about "surrendering to Tock", calling it "stupid".

At the end T said, "We still don't know what's going on with Sheridan, or with Garibaldi for that matter."

After the episode, C asked me to confirm that Cartagia was based on Caligula, which I did. T then remarked that Caligula was "a nasty guy". I said, "You'll see that Cartagia is a nasty guy too." C then told us stories about Caligula, how he had poisoned his grandmother and how he made his horse a priest. The final story was how in "I, Claudius", Caligula impregnated his sister and then killed her and their child to keep the child from becoming a greater god then he. I said the only part of all that which was relevant to the B5 story was Cartagia's desire to be a god.

In addition, T was flipping through the newspaper which had an article about Harlan Ellison. I mentioned that Harlan was a creative consultant on "Babylon 5", and has a cameo appearance later this season. T said to should point him out when we get there, and I said I would.