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Watching B5 with C&T - S4

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  • #31
    Originally posted by alpha128 View Post
    My plan to maintain address the flaws in Season 5 is the admittedly controversial choice to go with "Watching B5 with C&T - S5 (condensed)". I discussed this earlier, but Bill Mumy comments in "An oral history of Babylon 5" reinforced my opinion.
    Keep in mind that Mumy holds a grudge for his (with Peter David) script not making the grade for season 5. He makes no secret of it. Speaking of 'not good enoug'. (And yes, I've got the script and no, it really wasn't good enough).
    "Fascism always comes in quietly, holding a flag in one hand and a holy book in the other, inching its way in. The bugles and drums only sound after they've already taken over and believe it's too late to do anything about it." JMS Twitter Dec. 24, 2017

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    • #32
      Originally posted by Jan View Post
      Keep in mind that Mumy holds a grudge for his (with Peter David) script not making the grade for season 5. He makes no secret of it. Speaking of 'not good enough'. (And yes, I've got the script and no, it really wasn't good enough).
      This is all news to me. I'll take your word for it that Mumy's script wasn't "good enough".

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      • #33
        Originally posted by alpha128 View Post
        This is all news to me. I'll take your word for it that Mumy's script wasn't "good enough".
        I wrote a synopsis of it that I'll be happy to send you if you PM me an email address (it's too long to PM here). The script was called "Gut Reactions".
        "Fascism always comes in quietly, holding a flag in one hand and a holy book in the other, inching its way in. The bugles and drums only sound after they've already taken over and believe it's too late to do anything about it." JMS Twitter Dec. 24, 2017

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        • #34
          Originally posted by Jan View Post
          I wrote a synopsis of it that I'll be happy to send you if you PM me an email address (it's too long to PM here). The script was called "Gut Reactions".
          Like I said, I'll take your word for it. But thanks.

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          • #35
            Originally posted by Looney View Post
            The only thing I don't like about the spoiler aspect of it is that it cements Londo's end. If you wait and watch it just before SLEEPING IN LIGHT 5.22 then you can hold out hope that he will redeem himself and face a different fate. I'm not saying there isn't a form of redemption. I'm saying there could have been hope that he would find redemption and face a more peaceful end. Showing it this early means they will likely think this is where Londo is headed for the remainder of the series. I know when I originally saw it I felt off about Londo the rest of the way because I knew where Londo was going.
            I don't quite get your point, sorry - Londo's ultimate fate (voluntary strangulation by long time ally G'Kar) is shown in the 3rd season during "War without end", not in "ItB".

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            • #36
              Originally posted by Morden View Post
              I don't quite get your point, sorry - Londo's ultimate fate (voluntary strangulation by long time ally G'Kar) is shown in the 3rd season during "War without end", not in "ItB".
              Yes, but we're always told prophecy is not set in stone. The more they show that as being Londo's fate the more it becomes set in stone. Having an entire movie devoted to the time just before the actual event cements that as his fate. And one could argue that while it might be inescapable that Londo die by G'Kar's hand it didn't have to be after some miserable time under The Keeper's control.
              Susan Ivanova, "I'll be in the car."

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              • #37
                Originally posted by Looney View Post
                Yes, but we're always told prophecy is not set in stone. The more they show that as being Londo's fate the more it becomes set in stone. Having an entire movie devoted to the time just before the actual event cements that as his fate. And one could argue that while it might be inescapable that Londo die by G'Kar's hand it didn't have to be after some miserable time under The Keeper's control.
                Interesting - I've never once thought of any of those WWE-elements as "prophecy", I've always interpreted this as straightforward time-jumps/flash-forwards, showing us what happens years later. Prophecies have been handled differently on the show in my opinion (with the single exception of the infamous Garibaldi-Gatling-Gun-moment from season one). But well, engaging to know how else those scenes were seen.

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by Morden View Post
                  Interesting - I've never once thought of any of those WWE-elements as "prophecy", I've always interpreted this as straightforward time-jumps/flash-forwards, showing us what happens years later. Prophecies have been handled differently on the show in my opinion (with the single exception of the infamous Garibaldi-Gatling-Gun-moment from season one). But well, engaging to know how else those scenes were seen.
                  Well right there you give an exception to the rule that points to visions of the future not being etched in stone. And don't forget Lady Morella in POINT OF NO RETURN, 3.9, telling Londo he had chances to change things. This also tells the audience that characters can change their prophesied fate.
                  Susan Ivanova, "I'll be in the car."

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                  • #39
                    "Racing Mars"

                    I began by reminding them that, in the last regular episode, Dr. Franklin and Marcus were going to meet up with the Mars Resistance.

                    Not a lot of commentary from C & T, but they remained engaged by the episode.

                    T as usual enjoyed the humor, e.g., the running joke where Marcus teases Franklin about their "marriage" and when one of the black market smugglers hits on Ivanova.

                    After Franklin's explanation of the parasite found on Captain Jack, and the dust-up between Garibaldi and Sheridan, C speculated that Garibaldi was acting strangely because he also had a keeper on him. She expected me to confirm this, but I only said she would find out later the cause of Garibaldi's unusual behavior. C showed actual concern about Garibaldi, wondering how he could be saved if the Keepers always grow back.


                    "Lines of Communication"

                    I didn't give any introduction to this one. I just let the episode unfold naturally. C & T did not have a lot of commentary and they seemed to focus on following the plot as it jumped from locale to locale.

                    After Forell said, "Perhaps the situation is not as bad as the reports have indicated" and the episode cut to a ship being surrounded, T said, "It looks pretty bad."

                    Later, as ISN replayed the story of Sheridan suffering from Minbari War Syndrome T said, "Fox News of the future."

                    As usual, T enjoyed the humor, even Ivanova's potentially off putting line "If he weren't my commanding officer, I swear I'd shoot him dead."

                    When Delenn told Sheridan that she was going home to Minbar and might be gone a long time, C asked if that meant she was off the series. I told her no, but that Delenn would be on Minbar for a while.

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by alpha128 View Post
                      "Racing Mars"

                      I began by reminding them that, in the last regular episode, Dr. Franklin and Marcus were going to meet up with the Mars Resistance.

                      Not a lot of commentary from C & T, but they remained engaged by the episode.

                      T as usual enjoyed the humor, e.g., the running joke where Marcus teases Franklin about their "marriage" and when one of the black market smugglers hits on Ivanova.

                      After Franklin's explanation of the parasite found on Captain Jack, and the dust-up between Garibaldi and Sheridan, C speculated that Garibaldi was acting strangely because he also had a keeper on him. She expected me to confirm this, but I only said she would find out later the cause of Garibaldi's unusual behavior. C showed actual concern about Garibaldi, wondering how he could be saved if the Keepers always grow back.


                      "Lines of Communication"

                      I didn't give any introduction to this one. I just let the episode unfold naturally. C & T did not have a lot of commentary and they seemed to focus on following the plot as it jumped from locale to locale.

                      After Forell said, "Perhaps the situation is not as bad as the reports have indicated" and the episode cut to a ship being surrounded, T said, "It looks pretty bad."

                      Later, as ISN replayed the story of Sheridan suffering from Minbari War Syndrome T said, "Fox News of the future."

                      As usual, T enjoyed the humor, even Ivanova's potentially off putting line "If he weren't my commanding officer, I swear I'd shoot him dead."

                      When Delenn told Sheridan that she was going home to Minbar and might be gone a long time, C asked if that meant she was off the series. I told her no, but that Delenn would be on Minbar for a while.
                      For someone who is not a big fan of the series, C certainly gets concerned when there is an exit created for a character. LOL It is so great reading how each episode is getting more and more intense and they are getting more and more focused. This might be a good point to start filming yourselves watching episodes. There may not be many comments, but I'm sure the facial expressions will be there. I can almost imagine what their comments will be from here on out, except for INTERSECTIONS IN REAL TIME, 4.18. I have no clue how they will react to that one.
                      Susan Ivanova, "I'll be in the car."

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Looney View Post
                        I can almost imagine what their comments will be from here on out, except for INTERSECTIONS IN REAL TIME, 4.18. I have no clue how they will react to that one.
                        Of the episodes coming up in the near term, I'm most looking forward to the title episode "No Surrender, No Retreat" and "The Face of the Enemy".

                        Speaking of "title track" episodes, can someone tell me why Season 5's title is "Wheel of Fire"? I think that "And All My Dreams, Torn Asunder" would be a much more appropriate title for the season.

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                        • #42
                          "Conflicts of Interest"

                          Since it had been longer than normal since our last episode, I reminded C & T that in "Lines of Communication" Franklin and Marcus had teamed up with the Mars Resistance, Delenn had met and fought the Drakh, and Sheridan had volunteered Ivanova to be the Voice of the Resistance.

                          T, as usual, enjoyed the humor. He chuckled during Franklin and Ivanova's exchange about Epsilon III, during the Daffy Duck cartoon, and during Zathras' long scene with Ivanova. But apparently the latter scene went on too long for C's taste, as she wondered aloud at that point how the show managed to stay on the air for five years.

                          During the confrontation in the air duct between Garibaldi and the telepath, C asked why he didn't shoot at Garibaldi. I waited for the episode to do its explanation, and then in case it wasn't clear, I said, "He didn't shoot Garibaldi so he could read his mind."

                          C also didn't understand what happened in Docking Bay 3. I explained that Garibaldi went there to find out who the assailants were and they killed themselves to avoid being captured.


                          "Rumors, Bargains and Lies"

                          Before starting this episode, I reminded C & T about what Forell had said in "Lines of Communication" about the Warrior Caste forcing members of the Religious Caste out of their cities.

                          T continues to enjoy the humor. He chuckled at Sheridan's antics in the mess hall at the beginning, and at his concealed "Yes!" near the end.

                          During the hallway confrontation between the Warrior Caste and the Religious Caste, I pointed out each side. T asked how I could tell, and C answered, "the uniforms" which I confirmed.

                          After the Religious Caste members outlined their plan to martyr themselves by poisoning the ship's air supply T said, "Uh oh. This is getting serious." And after Lennier had been poisoned, C said "Danger! Danger!" and asked if he was going to live. I told her "Watch."

                          At the end when Neroon was apparently betraying Delenn T asked, "So he's double-crossing her?" To which I replied, "Maybe. Maybe not." As Neroon's flyer entered the jumpgate, C asked about jumpgates and hyperspace. Although I'm no physicist, I tried to explain it. I later emailed her this video which does a better job than I did.

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by alpha128 View Post
                            "Conflicts of Interest"

                            T, as usual, enjoyed the humor. He chuckled during Franklin and Ivanova's exchange about Epsilon III, during the Daffy Duck cartoon, and during Zathras' long scene with Ivanova. But apparently the latter scene went on too long for C's taste, as she wondered aloud at that point how the show managed to stay on the air for five years.
                            Hahaha, LOL. Yeah, it's that JMS' schoolboy humour that really doesn't work for everyone! I generally like the Zathras scenes, because, yeah... Zathras. Never thought Claudia fitted the style of humour well, or that it worked for her character. She's totally got the range (see Freaks and Geeks for a 100% more natural performance).
                            Captain John Sheridan: I really *hate* it when you do that.

                            Kosh: Good!

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                            • #44
                              I liked the Claudia/Zathras scene more than the sex dance (though I enjoyed the 'dialog'). To answer their question, though, the reason it was able to stay on was because it was willing to stick with those moments, humorous or serious.
                              "Fascism always comes in quietly, holding a flag in one hand and a holy book in the other, inching its way in. The bugles and drums only sound after they've already taken over and believe it's too late to do anything about it." JMS Twitter Dec. 24, 2017

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by Ubik View Post
                                Hahaha, LOL. Yeah, it's that JMS' schoolboy humour that really doesn't work for everyone! I generally like the Zathras scenes, because, yeah... Zathras.
                                Originally posted by Jan View Post
                                I liked the Claudia/Zathras scene more than the sex dance (though I enjoyed the 'dialog').
                                To be fair, I noticed this time just how long the scene was. I can understand how some might start to lose interest as it plays out.

                                Thanks for reading and posting!

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