Little B5:TMoS news in Dreamwatch (from b5tv.com)

[Shr'eshhhhhh]

Each to their own, Though I would really like to know more about the apocalpse box, where it came from and where was it leading Gideon?

He seemed to have it under control, he didn't idly follow it's every utterance.

Would it have been like a drug ? The more ihe used it the more dependent he'd become and the more lies it would tell?

[AmyG]

Is it true that adverts for Legend of the Rangers where shown with the first Lord of the Rings film in the States or was that just one of them darned rumours?

Yes. Well, I can't swear that it was the _first_ Lord of the Rings film, but if that's the right time frame (holiday season 2001-02) it's correct. I remember going to see it, for about the third or fourth time, with a friend from the moderated B5 newsgroup, and we were so excited by the Rangers trailer we could barely sit through the film - all we wanted to do was talk about the trailer!

Amy

[Shr'eshhhhhh]

"Yes. Well, I can't swear that it was the _first_ Lord of the Rings film, but if that's the right time frame (holiday season 2001-02) it's correct. I remember going to see it, for about the third or fourth time, with a friend from the moderated B5 newsgroup, and we were so excited by the Rangers trailer we could barely sit through the film - all we wanted to do was talk about the trailer!"

Originally posted by Amy

When I heard that, I got very excited too, I thought if it was good enough to look good on a big screen and if it was being shown with such a mainstream and well anticipated film it was bound to have the success sadly denied Crusade.

When I finally got to see Legend of the Rangers I was very dissapointed. It just wasn't up to JMS's usual high standards and even Andreas (who I adore...don't we all) seemed to be going through the motions. It didn't even look that good. I hope I shan't be as dissapointed by The Memory Of Shadows.
But early days yet.

[elver]

Originally posted by Shr'eshhhhhh
When I finally got to see Legend of the Rangers I was very dissapointed. It just wasn't up to JMS's usual high standards and even Andreas (who I adore...don't we all) seemed to be going through the motions. It didn't even look that good. I hope I shan't be as dissapointed by The Memory Of Shadows.
But early days yet.

Yes, I felt the same way myself. What the hell went wrong? It just felt... bland. Unimaginative. And yes, while Andreas was the best part of the film, even he seemed a bit bland.

Oh, and did anyone feel that they recycled the whole ominous history thing? I mean, G'Kar did the whole "ancient evil that comes back every now and then" routine back in Babylon 5. And then there he was again, doing the whole "ancient evil that comes back every now and then" routine. Complete with meatballs! Again! That, for me, was the most disappointing bit of the entire movie. I mean, you had the Shadows already. And they were the ancient evil that returned every now and then. And they left. Now you're going to bring in some new ancient evil that supposedly also returns periodically? Bah.

"The Hand" weren't even hinted at anywhere in the books or the show. It felt very untrue to the series.

Anyway, enough ranting. Bottom line: I hated the rangers movie. It lacked chemistry between actors. It lacked fire. It was a pretty bland and boring thing.

And now, I shall sleep. Good day.

[Shr'eshhhhhh]

Well there were alot of hands refered to in the show, there was 'The great hand reaching from the stars" and "you are the hand"

Just as there were many eye references.
Maybe the New bad guys in The Memory of Shadows will be the EYE.

Illuminarte' (spelling?) freaks would love that, oh and Tolkein fans.

[elver]

Originally posted by Shr'eshhhhhh
Well there were alot of hands refered to in the show, there was 'The great hand reaching from the stars" and "you are the hand"

Just as there were many eye references.
Maybe the New bad guys in The Memory of Shadows will be the EYE.

Illuminarte' (spelling?) freaks would love that, oh and Tolkein fans.

Yes, and where will we end up when we run out of ominous body parts? Will we some day have "the great spleen that reaches out from the stars" or "you are the liver"?

The EYE was destroyed when Z'ha'dum blew up, wasn't it?

Anyway, as far as I could tell, the Shadows had no masters. In fact, this point was greatly emphasized in the technomage trilogy. The Shadows themselves always wanted to bring chaos, but never could fall into chaos themselves -- manipulating, controlling, being the eye of the storm.

And the Shadows were the only menace that returned periodically. Some other First One, then? Most of them left after the Shadow war or much, much earlier. Plus Vorlons and Shadows were the only ones that took sides -- order and chaos -- mediated by Lorien, who set down the rules of conflict eons ago.

[Shr'eshhhhhh]

There was the Centauri bauble also called the eye.
and "the eye that cannot see" Which I assume is G'kar's. But if not let's not forget his all seeing prosthesis.

I think 'The Knobbly Knees' would be a suitable name for an ancient evil. Or 'The Screamin Willies'
Maybe Draal knows more than he's telling?

[vacantlook]

Oh, and did anyone feel that they recycled the whole ominous history thing? I mean, G'Kar did the whole "ancient evil that comes back every now and then" routine back in Babylon 5. And then there he was again, doing the whole "ancient evil that comes back every now and then" routine. Complete with meatballs! Again! That, for me, was the most disappointing bit of the entire movie. I mean, you had the Shadows already. And they were the ancient evil that returned every now and then. And they left. Now you're going to bring in some new ancient evil that supposedly also returns periodically? Bah.

Do remember, as G'Kar pointed out at the end of Rangers, that with the station of Babylon 5 and extending to the stories of the B5-universe itself, "No one there is exactly what he seems. But then, who is?"

I think it would be a good idea to avoid assuming that just because at first it seemed like The Hand were some big evil just repeating the place of the Shadows in the series that they actually were that. Especially considering that this movie was to serve as a pilot for a series and knowing that jms enjoys throwing twists into his stories that require build up prior to their payoff.

"The Hand" weren't even hinted at anywhere in the books or the show.

And if The Hand turned out to be the aliens living in Thirdspace (as some people theorize), would that constitute as them having been hinted at before?

[AmyG]

Well, I can't agree with those of you who took exception to Andreas's performance in Rangers; I thought he was spectacular, and thoroughly professional as always.

Regarding the Hand, and feeling that it was a recycled plot, and joking about other body parts, and all the rest of the things said: have you people not watched Babylon 5 all the way through? Did JMS mention the Shadows by name in the pilot?? Even though there were elements that came all the way down five seasons from the pilot, nothing huge like that would have been introduced, encountered, and conquered all in one fell swoop in the pilot...if they were the real, legitimate "Big Bad" of the series. My feeling is that maybe the Hand _thought_ they were hot sh*t, but that was just their own opinion of themselves. They probably were just the big fish in a small pond somewhere in the galaxy, and thought a lot of themselves, and were trying to increase their range with this attack on Alliance space.

In any case, JMS would _never_ have revealed his hand (pun intended) so early in the game. O ye of little faith, if the Rangers pilot had paid off with a series, it would have been just as good as Babylon 5, and maybe even _better_.

Let's hope we get the chance to judge another B5-universe series from the beginning someday.

Amy

[vacantlook]

I agree with you Aisling, I think G'Kar was wonderful in Rangers. Additionally, I also really liked Malcolm, Firell, and Na'Feel. Malcolm, well, he was just bloody cute; I loved the scene in the hallway between him and G'Kar. The way G'Kar was able to say nothing and just look at him and it turn poor Malcolm into a nervous blatherer was so enduring to me -- especially the smile Malcolm gives near the end trying to get G'Kar to not be angry. Firell intrigued me considerably and I still want to know more about her. The way she looked at Malcolm during the Naming Of Names ceremony when Malcolm said that he never saw his face in his dreams was interesting, as was how Firell wanted to talk freely to David in the medbay about Dulann and Dulann's minor telepathy but just allowed herself to fade into the background when Malcolm came bursting in. And then Na'Feel was a wonderful, powerful female Narn; whoooboy! "Oh nothing! Just needs a little fine-tuning!" And the way she leaned over when David try to lean over to look through the doorway was great!

[Jan]

I liked the Rangers movie *a lot*. I liked the characters and I liked the possibilities that it set up. As for the Hand, what JMS said at Hawthorne Comic Con in May was:

<<Audience: I had an argument with a friend of mine about this whole thing in 'To Live and Die in Starlight' about whether the 'white hand' was actually something you had thought of, was in the chronology back when you started B5? I was like, "He planned everything, it must be." So even though it's the sole reference to the white hand I'm wondering if they had been there all along in your mind or was it created when you wrote it?

JMS: There was a group that I'd (something) and I figured one more (something) to Tolkein couldn't hurt too much. There are a number of groups that you haven't heard from at all, I haven't had a chance to get there yet.

Audience: You actually had them there all along or at least some sense of them.

JMS: Yeah. You have to. You have to work out the history in great detail in either direction. It's like, for all those years the Europeans didn't know about the people in South America until they finally met up and that intersection caused great change. So I try and implement that kind force of history thing. You had a question.>>


It's a big universe he's created and we already know that things are seldom what they seem the first time we see them. It was also really cool to see G'Kar relaxed and enjoying the adventure. His travels with Lyta obviously did him a lot of good.

Jan

[vacantlook]

Squee! That's another lovely G'Kar moment from Rangers: when he gets sad at the thought of Lyta. [sigh]

[Shr'eshhhhhh]

I'm sorry but I didn't like any of the performances from the main characters. The kicking punching interface for the ship was just plain silly, The Hand agent looked like a coal sack that had been attacked by mice and Andreas seemed to be just camping it up. (not that I mind abit of that, his clutching the shocking pink ladys knickers in...oh gosh I can't remember the episode, I'm sure someone else here does...Was very funny. but he seemed to be acting on just one level) Which is a Shame because he is such a great actor.
The one element I really did like was the notion of the main ship being a haunted house. All tumble down and full of restless spirits it looked good too, it carried the Minbari design ethic down to a smaller, older ship.. Did they loose the rights to the original ship models because I didn't see any recognisable ships, No old Minbari, EA, or White Stars.(They did have a certain, last best hope for peace) I also liked the Valen (before it blew up)
Over all my reaction was simular to watching a Star Wars prequel, (didn't live up to the writer's potential, my sense of anticipation, the actor's proven ability and the special effects didn't look as good as the original show of many years before) As for the rangers themselves, I felt they came across more like a petulant karate class than the guardians of peace and watchers of the dark places we have come to know.

[WorkerCaste]

My thoughts on the Rangers movie, for what it's worth:

Weapons interface: Interesting idea that didn't work visually. I had complete faith that they would've fixed and/or abandoned it.

Andreas: Great, as always.

G'Kar: Richer sense of whimsy and/or humor from his continued enlightenment. JMS has linked humor and enlightenment before.

Acting: Above average for actors in roles for the first time, and given the small amount of rehersal for TV versus feature movies.

The Hand: Intentionally feeling like a cliche. Wait for the wham.

The "look": Ambitious. Pushing the edge of what could be done for TV on the budget they had. As a result, sometimes looking somewhat "fake." I expected that this would improve as the investmemt in CGI models and virtual sets increased over time.

At any rate, I liked it and saw great potential. I was disappointed it wasn't given a chance to develop. BTW, Shr'eshhhhhh, I seem to recall that WB actually lost the B5 CGI models, so that would account for the lack a familiar ships. Over time the could've recreated the models, but it probably wasn't in the cards for a pilot.

[Ranger 6 and 7/8]

I have to agree with Jan and Aisling here...
*bows before her majesty Aisling who is accompanied as always by the Narn Bat Squad*

I think the storyline would have been killer.
Imagine this: The Alliance only defeated the Vorlons and Shadows because they had the power of Lorien backing them up.
We all assumed that all of the First Ones left with Lorien. But what if they forgot to mention that there was still a race out there than a few thousand years ago the First ones had kicked out of the galaxy. A race that had anough power to make Lorien quake. How would a shaky Alliance stand up to it?