Watching B5 with C&T - Season 2

[alpha128]

I am shocked that Keffer's death was not mentioned as well. What a let down! I've have been expecting this huge reaction out of C and now you are telling me there was NOTHING?!?!?!?!

Maybe she'll have more to say when we start Season 3 and he's not there.

I can't wait until you get into Season 3. Are you going to show them the opening credits? I think when I show someone the series I will skip the opening credits for several episodes until some things are established. It might not matter with C & T, but the person I am talking about would much rather prefer there weren't any hinted spoilers like when any wars are actually starting.

I don't see any reason not to show the Season 3 opening credits. I initially shielded them from the Season 2 opening credits because the DVDs did not include the original non-spoiler version that aired during the first two episodes. But the Season 3 opening credits don't have that issue. If they ask why there is a starfury firing on another starfury, I'll simply quote JMS and tell them they'll have to wait and see.

[Looney]

Comes the Inquisitor

I introduced this one by reminding them in the previous episode the Narn/Centauri war came to an end, and the Narns lost. I said there would be aftermath to that war, and that they would start to see it in this episode. I also told them that the series would now pivot to the upcoming war against the Shadows.

C was chattier than usual during the opening credits, saying:
1.) The series must end with the station being destroyed, because they're always talking about it in the past tense.
2.) Why is she (Talia) still in the credits?
3.) They should use him (Keffer) more in the series.

When Kosh told Delenn, "You will know... if you survive", T said that sounded ominous.

When Sebastian first appeared, T said he looked like Abraham Lincoln, without the beard. Speaking of appearances, C wondered aloud what G'Kar looked like without his makeup, so when I got home I emailed her this link.

During the scene with Lennier and Delenn in Sheridan's office, C surprised me by saying, thirty-two episodes in, that Bill Mumy was "annoying". Later, when Lennier told Sheridan that he thought the inquisitor was killing Delenn, T said, "It certainly looks like he's killing her."

At the end, I asked them if they realized who Sebastian was. They both said, "No", but it turns out C was being sarcastic. I told them it was Jack the Ripper and C said, "Of course it was Jack the Ripper! It was obvious!" T however, sincerely didn't know.

WOW! It is great news that they didn't have any big complaints. This is definitely one where I could see people who are not really into SciFi having problems. The idea that Jack The Ripper was abducted by aliens and then stored in stasis so he could be used for interrogations is pretty far out there in the realm of awesome for SciFi fans and pretty over the top for people who are not big into SciFi.

The Fall of Night

Before this one I told them it was the big season finale and that a lot had been leading up to this.

During the opening scene T asked what the pilots were doing, and I replied they were having war games. T laughed when Lennier and Vir said simultaneously "It makes me nervous".

C perked up when Keffer appeared during his first scene in the pilot's locker room. C said, as she has before, that they should be using him more.

When the Narn cruiser appeared and requested sanctuary, T joked that Babylon 5 was becoming a sanctuary city.

When Lantz said, "We will, at last, know peace in our time", I asked C & T if they recognized the quote. They didn't, so I explained it was by Neville Chamberlain. They then mentioned that they had recently seen Darkest Hour and recognized the parallels of the situation.

To my surprise, C did not comment on Keffer's death. She did ask however, if Kosh was now always going to look like a being of light.

That's it until next time, when I'll be back with Watching B5 with C&T - Season 3!

I am shocked that Keffer's death was not mentioned as well. What a let down! I've have been expecting this huge reaction out of C and now you are telling me there was NOTHING?!?!?!?!

Putting my disappointment aside I will say that Keffer does end up serving a great purpose. He is definitely a guest character who ended up having a decent arc with an outstanding ending.

I can't wait until you get into Season 3. Are you going to show them the opening credits? I think when I show someone the series I will skip the opening credits for several episodes until some things are established. It might not matter with C & T, but the person I am talking about would much rather prefer there weren't any hinted spoilers like when any wars are actually starting.

[alpha128]

Comes the Inquisitor

I introduced this one by reminding them in the previous episode the Narn/Centauri war came to an end, and the Narns lost. I said there would be aftermath to that war, and that they would start to see it in this episode. I also told them that the series would now pivot to the upcoming war against the Shadows.

C was chattier than usual during the opening credits, saying:
1.) The series must end with the station being destroyed, because they're always talking about it in the past tense.
2.) Why is she (Talia) still in the credits?
3.) They should use him (Keffer) more in the series.

When Kosh told Delenn, "You will know... if you survive", T said that sounded ominous.

When Sebastian first appeared, T said he looked like Abraham Lincoln, without the beard. Speaking of appearances, C wondered aloud what G'Kar looked like without his makeup, so when I got home I emailed her this link.

During the scene with Lennier and Delenn in Sheridan's office, C surprised me by saying, thirty-two episodes in, that Bill Mumy was "annoying". Later, when Lennier told Sheridan that he thought the inquisitor was killing Delenn, T said, "It certainly looks like he's killing her."

At the end, I asked them if they realized who Sebastian was. They both said, "No", but it turns out C was being sarcastic. I told them it was Jack the Ripper and C said, "Of course it was Jack the Ripper! It was obvious!" T however, sincerely didn't know.


The Fall of Night

Before this one I told them it was the big season finale and that a lot had been leading up to this.

During the opening scene T asked what the pilots were doing, and I replied they were having war games. T laughed when Lennier and Vir said simultaneously "It makes me nervous".

C perked up when Keffer appeared during his first scene in the pilot's locker room. C said, as she has before, that they should be using him more.

When the Narn cruiser appeared and requested sanctuary, T joked that Babylon 5 was becoming a sanctuary city.

When Lantz said, "We will, at last, know peace in our time", I asked C & T if they recognized the quote. They didn't, so I explained it was by Neville Chamberlain. They then mentioned that they had recently seen Darkest Hour and recognized the parallels of the situation.

To my surprise, C did not comment on Keffer's death. She did ask however, if Kosh was now always going to look like a being of light.

That's it until next time, when I'll be back with Watching B5 with C&T - Season 3!

[Looney]

I can imagine some snooty Hollywood types saying at the time, "I do not give awards to lizards and peacocks."

That is SOOOOOOO true. I am certain their makeup and costumes hurt their chances despite how many actors have won academy awards for wearing makeup that totally transformed their appearance. Those same snooty types would say, "Those award winning transformations were into people who looked real, not aliens."

[alpha128]

I wonder what C & T will think of the change (from Talia to Lyta)?

The change I wonder about is the upcoming change from Warren Keffer to Marcus Cole.

Bester said he would bet good money that the virus that kills only telepaths is Shadow technology. I would bet good money that C's comments on "The Fall of Night" will include something like, "What?!? They killed off the only good-looking character on the show?!?"

As I've said before, I sure hope C takes a liking to Marcus. Otherwise it's going to be a long rest of the series.

This is one of those episodes that just proves there was/is bias against Science Fiction Television. The fact that Katsulas and Jurasik weren't constantly considered for acting awards is ridiculous.

I can imagine some snooty Hollywood types saying at the time, "I do not give awards to lizards and peacocks."

[Looney]

Divided Loyalties

We resumed B5 after a holiday break. Before the start I noted that there were three plots going on during this part of the season. I said this episode would deal with the "conspiracy of light" aimed at Earth's government. I also told them there would be important revelations in this episode.

Early on, C was back to complaining about the crudeness of B5's CGI. T was quick to defend it in the context of when the show was made. I reiterated that the computer graphics were cutting edge back in their day, and they got better as the show went along.

During the opening scene on Mars, C said, "That's interesting." T asked if they were supposed to know who the two operatives were and I said, "No, but one of them is a ranger."

At first C and T were a bit confused by the Universe Today dispenser. When I explained it was a newspaper machine, C said she could use one of those since her newspaper no longer publishes every day of the week.

C was confused at first why they would want to trigger the sleeper personality since it was apparently dormant. I explained that the sleeper was essentially a deep cover operative who didn't know it. Untriggered they would continue to spy, and sending the password was the only way to discover who had been compromised.

T appreciated the humor as usual. For example, he laughed when Ivanova said, "Does the phrase 'no way in hell' ring a bell?" He also enjoyed the scene where Delenn struggles to grasp the meaning of the word "butt".

During the scene in Ivanova's quarters when Talia was saying Susan was the only person she could trust, C asked if this was supposed to be a lesbian relationship. I said it was open to interpretation.

After the scene where Ivanova told Sheridan she was a latent telepath and there was the flashback, I reminded them that the dream occurred during the episode where Sheridan had been abducted by aliens.

At the end, C asked if that meant Talia was off the series. I said yes, she's off the show never to return. C then asked why the actress left, and I explained that she felt she was not getting enough screen time and in general felt underappreciated.

I wonder what C & T will think of the change? Talia was originally not one of my favorites, but I have REALLY come to appreciate her over the years. As I've said many times before, I picked up B5 at the start of Season Two so for a long time Season Two Talia was all I knew. I didn't really start to have affection for the character until I watched Season One multiple times and got to know here a little better. I wish Talia had continued just from the standpoint of seeing how JMS would have had to deal with her relationship with Ivanova. I love Lyta and her arc. If I have read it I have forgotten what the plan was for Talia's progression through the wars. I assume it isn't too far from what happened with Lyta, other than possibly not being as connected to Kosh. It would be very interesting to go back in time and prevent Andrea Thompson from making the choice to leave just to see how it would have played out.

Divided Loyalties

The Long, Twilight Struggle

At the start of this I told C & T, "If you thought the last episode upended the status quo, you ain't seen nothing yet."

T continues to appreciate the humor. He laughed when Draal told Sheridan, "I can return when you've finished dressing." T also enjoyed Delenn's newfound use of colorful metaphors.

C recognized John Schuck's voice and said he had played a cop in another TV series she had seen, but she couldn't place it.

After complaining about the special effects in just the last episode, C may finally be able to look past them and get caught up in the story. During the battle of Gorash 7 she channeled her inner Ackbar and declared, "It's a trap!"

After the battle, T asked if that was a dream. I replied it was real, and that apparently G'Kar could somehow sense what was happening, but it wasn't explained how.

At the end T said the situation was looking pretty desperate.

Such a powerful episode. If they have watched this far they have to want to know where it is headed. This is one of those episodes that just proves there was/is bias against Science Fiction Television. The fact that Katsulas and Jurasik weren't constantly considered for acting awards is ridiculous.

I am very interested to know how they will react to Comes The Inquisitor after The Long Twilight Struggle. It seems like such a shift when you watch them one right after the other, which is why it is good you have breaks between viewings.

[alpha128]

Divided Loyalties

We resumed B5 after a holiday break. Before the start I noted that there were three plots going on during this part of the season. I said this episode would deal with the "conspiracy of light" aimed at Earth's government. I also told them there would be important revelations in this episode.

Early on, C was back to complaining about the crudeness of B5's CGI. T was quick to defend it in the context of when the show was made. I reiterated that the computer graphics were cutting edge back in their day, and they got better as the show went along.

During the opening scene on Mars, C said, "That's interesting." T asked if they were supposed to know who the two operatives were and I said, "No, but one of them is a ranger."

At first C and T were a bit confused by the Universe Today dispenser. When I explained it was a newspaper machine, C said she could use one of those since her newspaper no longer publishes every day of the week.

C was confused at first why they would want to trigger the sleeper personality since it was apparently dormant. I explained that the sleeper was essentially a deep cover operative who didn't know it. Untriggered they would continue to spy, and sending the password was the only way to discover who had been compromised.

T appreciated the humor as usual. For example, he laughed when Ivanova said, "Does the phrase 'no way in hell' ring a bell?" He also enjoyed the scene where Delenn struggles to grasp the meaning of the word "butt".

During the scene in Ivanova's quarters when Talia was saying Susan was the only person she could trust, C asked if this was supposed to be a lesbian relationship. I said it was open to interpretation.

After the scene where Ivanova told Sheridan she was a latent telepath and there was the flashback, I reminded them that the dream occurred during the episode where Sheridan had been abducted by aliens.

At the end, C asked if that meant Talia was off the series. I said yes, she's off the show never to return. C then asked why the actress left, and I explained that she felt she was not getting enough screen time and in general felt underappreciated.


The Long, Twilight Struggle

At the start of this I told C & T, "If you thought the last episode upended the status quo, you ain't seen nothing yet."

T continues to appreciate the humor. He laughed when Draal told Sheridan, "I can return when you've finished dressing." T also enjoyed Delenn's newfound use of colorful metaphors.

C recognized John Schuck's voice and said he had played a cop in another TV series she had seen, but she couldn't place it.

After complaining about the special effects in just the last episode, C may finally be able to look past them and get caught up in the story. During the battle of Gorash 7 she channeled her inner Ackbar and declared, "It's a trap!"

After the battle, T asked if that was a dream. I replied it was real, and that apparently G'Kar could somehow sense what was happening, but it wasn't explained how.

At the end T said the situation was looking pretty desperate.

[alpha128]

AH yes. Thank you! . . . . Now wouldn't that have been an interesting spin-off series. Restarting an entire civilization with only a handful of survivors. Of course it would differ from BSG because the Markab would have all of the other races of the B5 Universe to help and possibly hinder them. Really there should at least be an episode where Franklin mentions a plan to help get them going again or something.

Yeah, I could imagine The Last Ship as a B5 spin-off. "The Last Markab" anyone?

[Looney]

Yes. An ISN news reporter says something like, "Although there may be a few survivors in distant colonies, the Markabs are essentially a dead race."

AH yes. Thank you! . . . . Now wouldn't that have been an interesting spin-off series. Restarting an entire civilization with only a handful of survivors. Of course it would differ from BSG because the Markab would have all of the other races of the B5 Universe to help and possibly hinder them. Really there should at least be an episode where Franklin mentions a plan to help get them going again or something.

[alpha128]

WOW! I am shocked there wasn't more commentary when they learned about Morden and that they didn't want to know more of where that was headed. And no mention at all of the Vir scene?

Maybe they were too busy paying attention to comment?

My memory is escaping me at the moment. Toward the end someone does mention there are still a few scattered Markab in places the plague didn't reach, correct?

Yes. An ISN news reporter says something like, "Although there may be a few survivors in distant colonies, the Markabs are essentially a dead race."

[Looney]

In the Shadow of Z'ha'dum

I introduced this one by saying that it was very important and they should pay close attention.

T made a lot of short comments, e.g., "Well", and laughed when Talia struck Captain Sheridan. Otherwise, not a lot of commentary from C and T.

C noticed Zack Allan for the first time (not surprising since this is his first big part), and asked me who that was. I said that was Jeff Conaway formerly of "Taxi".

At the end T said it was "an interesting episode".

WOW! I am shocked there wasn't more commentary when they learned about Morden and that they didn't want to know more of where that was headed. And no mention at all of the Vir scene?

Confessions and Lamentations

While we were waiting for C to join us, I reminded T about Dr. Franklin's mention of a good Markab doctor during "Knives", and said we would meet him in this episode. When C sat down I told her that there were a lot of aliens in this episode, even more than usual, but that "her buddy" (Keffer) was in it. Sure enough, C approved of Keffer's scenes and said they should use his character more.

During the early scene with Doctors Lazarenn and Franklin, T said that the situation looked suspicious. And upon learning the disease was 100% contagious and 100% terminal, T said, "It doesn't look good".

When Markab "yellow blood cells" were mentioned, T said, "I've never heard of those before, must be alien".

T laughed when the Markab girl said her mother's name was "Mama", but quickly said "Uh oh" when she became dizzy.

Near the end C asked, "They're all dead?" I replied in the affirmative. In the final scene C echoed Dr. Franklin's line that "nothing changes", and then T said something like, "It's pretty depressing that things are as screwed up in 200 years as they are now."

I still remember seeing this when it originally aired and being sooooo shocked that it ended the way it ended. My memory is escaping me at the moment. Toward the end someone does mention there are still a few scattered Markab in places the plague didn't reach, correct?

[Ubik]

As I've mentioned before, I can tell that T is more into the show than C is. He's more engaged by the story, and the humor in the series is right up his alley.

On the other hand, there seems to be a direct correlation between how many male cast members C finds attractive, and how much she enjoys a series. She only thinks Keffer is good-looking. Given Keffer's impending demise, I sure hope C takes a liking to Marcus. Otherwise it's going to be a long rest of the series.

Hahaha. Yes. I guess B5 didn't rely too heavily on the young, attractive cast members gimmick. Even though Claudia was very attractive, I never felt they really utilised it in an obvious way. Apart from the occasional saucy promo shot... It remains refreshing.

[alpha128]

Do you get the sense they are enjoying it? It's one thing I don't get from the rundowns. Is it animating them at all?

As I've mentioned before, I can tell that T is more into the show than C is. He's more engaged by the story, and the humor in the series is right up his alley.

On the other hand, there seems to be a direct correlation between how many male cast members C finds attractive, and how much she enjoys a series. She only thinks Keffer is good-looking. Given Keffer's impending demise, I sure hope C takes a liking to Marcus. Otherwise it's going to be a long rest of the series.

[Ubik]

Do you get the sense they are enjoying it? It's one thing I don't get from the rundowns. Is it animating them at all? How do they see it in the context of modern TV?

[alpha128]

In the Shadow of Z'ha'dum

I introduced this one by saying that it was very important and they should pay close attention.

T made a lot of short comments, e.g., "Well", and laughed when Talia struck Captain Sheridan. Otherwise, not a lot of commentary from C and T.

C noticed Zack Allan for the first time (not surprising since this is his first big part), and asked me who that was. I said that was Jeff Conaway formerly of "Taxi".

At the end T said it was "an interesting episode".


Confessions and Lamentations

While we were waiting for C to join us, I reminded T about Dr. Franklin's mention of a good Markab doctor during "Knives", and said we would meet him in this episode. When C sat down I told her that there were a lot of aliens in this episode, even more than usual, but that "her buddy" (Keffer) was in it. Sure enough, C approved of Keffer's scenes and said they should use his character more.

During the early scene with Doctors Lazarenn and Franklin, T said that the situation looked suspicious. And upon learning the disease was 100% contagious and 100% terminal, T said, "It doesn't look good".

When Markab "yellow blood cells" were mentioned, T said, "I've never heard of those before, must be alien".

T laughed when the Markab girl said her mother's name was "Mama", but quickly said "Uh oh" when she became dizzy.

Near the end C asked, "They're all dead?" I replied in the affirmative. In the final scene C echoed Dr. Franklin's line that "nothing changes", and then T said something like, "It's pretty depressing that things are as screwed up in 200 years as they are now."