Babylon 5, Great Maker, and Religion

[DGTWoodward]

Originally posted by Shr'eshhhhhh
The 666 thing was apparently a mis- translation anyway it was (or at least so I've read from mulitible sources) originally 661 and was a reference to Emperor Nero.

Hang on now, doesn't 7 denote heavenly completeness? Therefore 6 would be a failing to reach heavenly completeness. The ancient jews were also of a habit of repeating things for emphasis, hence 6-6-6 (and Elohim - literally LORD LORD ie Almighty God) The repeated lacking of heavenly completeness ie - the number of the the beast (ie Satan) who absolutely qualify as falling short of heavenly qualities.

As for Nero, mmmm, never got that impression myself - not from the context anyway.

[Shr'eshhhhhh]

The seven headed beast with the seven crowns. That the whore of Babylon (ahem) sits on is Rome. Seven hills. 661 was derived by putting Nero's full name through some sort of cipher. Remember at the time Revelations was written Christians could only meet literaly underground. Nero lit the streets with Christian Human torches. He planned elabourate butchery and perpitrated it on any Christian he could find. He, in the eyes of those early Christians was the Antichrist. And the the times they were living in the end of days.
But we know different. People never change. the battle against the darkness never ends only the names change.

[Radhil]

8675309.... the true mark of the Beast...

[Shr'eshhhhhh]

A balding head, a grey uniform and a bruce willisesque smerk, now that's the sign of the beast, grrrrrrrrrrrrrr.

Dodger "Nice Butt"

[Spirit]

Originally posted by Radhil
8675309.... the true mark of the Beast...

Don't you think it's to long to put on the forehead?

Another thing... Satan is not a private name of an angel, but is his "job" or "role".

G-d created many angels to watch and manage this world. Some of them were the "watchers" of the human kind (they were called "the watchers"). But many of those angels saw beatifull women and took them as their wifes. Their children were giants, that devistated the Earth and terrorized the people.
Many of them tought humans (women in most cases) various subjects - like how to use metal, how to use makeup (yep, angel named Azazel did this ), how to do sorcery, summon spirits and stuff like that.

For that the watchers were downcasted and a judgement was given to them.

They won't be able to ascend to the heavens, they will serve G-d in other role from now on, and when the day of the judgement comes - they die.

I remember only few of their names: Shemhazai, Azazel etc...

They were given a role to be a Satan. So what is the role of a Satan? We can find it in the book of Yov - simply put - their role is to test someone, to test his faith.

Angels are facinating creatures. I've tried to learn about them. They have their orders, there are 4 different types of them. Some of them have weapons and some are ridding a horse.

Links that I've posted previously have all the information about the angels.

[Shr'eshhhhhh]

Luicifer was the first being ever created, He was a bright immortal creature of light, He prompted the younger races to seek the knowledge of good and evil and was cast into a bottomless pit in a hellish domain populated by devils and demons. ('ang on that was Lorien wasn't it?)

[DGTWoodward]

Originally posted by Spirit
Don't you think it's to long to put on the forehead?

Another thing... Satan is not a private name of an angel, but is his "job" or "role".

Many of them tought humans (women in most cases) various subjects - like how to use metal, how to use makeup (yep, angel named Azazel did this ), how to do sorcery, summon spirits and stuff like that.

I remember only few of their names: Shemhazai, Azazel etc...

Yes, this is true, the words Satan and Devil are also more like titles than names - as I understand it they have such meanings as resister (to God), liar, opposer etc.

Though I have heard at least one of the other names you use for some of the angels (eg Azazel), I had not heard that they did these other things and I wonder where you get this kind of information as none of it is from the old testament.

[DGTWoodward]

Originally posted by Shr'eshhhhhh
Luicifer was the first being ever created, He was a bright immortal creature of light, He prompted the younger races to seek the knowledge of good and evil and was cast into a bottomless pit in a hellish domain populated by devils and demons. ('ang on that was Lorien wasn't it?)

If we are assuming that you are refering to the same Lucifer that is also known as Satan the Devil (althought I have heard him refered to as Set in other works, we do not know his actual name - as in the previous post these are not names in themselves. They are more like titles or descriptions of his character), then according to Bible scripture he was most definitely NOT the first act of creation of God. Why would a God motivated by love to create more life, make a creature like Lucifer? One who, with his own free will, chose to oppose God. Scripture tells us that God's first act of creation was 'Logos', the word (or mouthpiece - if you like) of God.

[Andrew_Swallow]

Originally posted by LightStorm
Though I have heard at least one of the other names you use for some of the angels (eg Azazel), I had not heard that they did these other things and I wonder where you get this kind of information as none of it is from the old testament.

Try the Koran.

[Shr'eshhhhhh]

"If we are assuming that you are refering to the same Lucifer that is also known as Satan the Devil (althought I have heard him refered to as Set in other works, we do not know his actual name - as in the previous post these are not names in themselves. They are more like titles or descriptions of his character), then according to Bible scripture he was most definitely NOT the first act of creation of God. Why would a God motivated by love to create more life, make a creature like Lucifer? One who, with his own free will, chose to oppose God. Scripture tells us that God's first act of creation was 'Logos', the word (or mouthpiece - if you like) of God. Originally posted by Lightstorm.

The Word is God, God wasn't created he always existed, Lucifer, the bringer of light was the first of all angels. the first being other than God to exist. He is also called the Morning Star and is associated with the Planet Venus, In the early morning it is the brightest star in the sky but then out comes the sun and it's light banishes it. Just as Lucifer's brilliance is eclipsed by God's. Shaitan (or Satan) is the opposer, not of God (he still serves God) but of man, it his job to test the faithful with temptation. The Devil is the medieval mind trying to kill off the pagan gods like Herne and Pan, who had horns or antellers. By mixing Luicifer's pride with Shaitan's role of tempting man with the look of the old god's you get the Devil. Set was an Egyptian god, brother/murderer of Osiris . And as for why God would make a being that would oppose God through free will, Surely that same question could be asked about humanity too. According to the Bible man has been using his free will to defy God since Eden onwards.



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[elver]

Originally posted by Shr'eshhhhhh
The Word is God, God wasn't created he always existed, Lucifer, the bringer of light was the first of all angels. the first being other than God to exist. He is also called the Morning Star and is associated with the Planet Venus, In the early morning it is the brightest star in the sky but then out comes the sun and it's light banishes it.

Ah. So you, too, spotted the symbolism in the 3rd Psi Corps book with Kosh being on Venus? :P

The reason it was chosen by the early christians as a symbol for the devil was because it used to be a symbol for the woman among the nature-loving people of pre-christian era

[I love Lyta]

"G-d created many angels to watch and manage this world. Some of them were the "watchers" of the human kind (they were called "the watchers"). But many of those angels saw beatifull women and took them as their wifes. Their children were giants, that devistated the Earth and terrorized the people. "

I feel like being in the middle of a part of "God's Army".

[Spirit]

Shr'eshhhhhh
Luicifer was the first of a new kind of angels... But he sinned and you know the rest of the story

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I had not heard that they did these other things and I wonder where you get this kind of information as none of it is from the old testament.

Other holly books that have been long lost and lately rediscovered (partially) like the book of Raziel the angel, the book of Enoch.

If we are assuming that you are refering to the same Lucifer that is also known as Satan the Devil (althought I have heard him refered to as Set in other works, we do not know his actual name - as in the previous post these are not names in themselves. They are more like titles or descriptions of his character), then according to Bible scripture he was most definitely NOT the first act of creation of God. Why would a God motivated by love to create more life, make a creature like Lucifer? One who, with his own free will, chose to oppose God. Scripture tells us that God's first act of creation was 'Logos', the word (or mouthpiece - if you like) of God.

Actually it's contradictional. Angels unlike humans do not have a free will so they can't sin.. But some how they did... Nice thing to investigate... And by the way - it was misstranslation - the first thing created was the heaven and the earth.
"Bereshit bara Eloh-m et ashamaim veet aarethz" - "in the beginning created G-d the heavens and the earth" - word to word.

Try the Koran.

Not me, man...

Shaitan

That's the way muslims call Satan...
We call him - Satan...

I love Lyta
Nicely put :-)

And by the way - I HATE my pc.... It rebooted while I was writing this post first time.... arrrgh.....
so the answers were cut...

[DGTWoodward]

Originally posted by Andrew_Swallow
Try the Koran.

Thank you, never read it....I'd like to though.

[DGTWoodward]

Originally posted by Shr'eshhhhhh
"If we are assuming that you are refering to the same Lucifer that is also known as Satan the Devil (althought I have heard him refered to as Set in other works, we do not know his actual name - as in the previous post these are not names in themselves. They are more like titles or descriptions of his character), then according to Bible scripture he was most definitely NOT the first act of creation of God. Why would a God motivated by love to create more life, make a creature like Lucifer? One who, with his own free will, chose to oppose God. Scripture tells us that God's first act of creation was 'Logos', the word (or mouthpiece - if you like) of God. Originally posted by Lightstorm.

And as for why God would make a being that would oppose God through free will, Surely that same question could be asked about humanity too. According to the Bible man has been using his free will to defy God since Eden onwards.



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Choices, actions, consequences and responsibility....you are right, man has been doing just that.