Babylon 5, Great Maker, and Religion

[Spirit]

Originally posted by I love Lyta
"We believe that someone's name has a certain power in it."

OK, I'm no expert since I don't believe in Gods and I know the rituals of excorcism only from a movie on TV that is supposed to be based on a real occurrance.
But from what I seem to know so do the christians.
At least when it comes to excorcism and demons.
They always ask the demon's secret name.

I was about to write a well known quote from The Life of Brian here but wouldn't want to offend spirit.

There is a legend about young King David.
After defeating the Goliath, Goliath's brother (who was also a giant - the descendand of the angels who took them mortal wifes)
decided to revenge his brother's death. The only way to defeat Goliath's brother was to say out loud the holly divine name. But no one knew it for it has so much power in it - it can kill instantly the very person that pronounces it.

But David was a righteous man (well, not all the time - but we are not judging, right ?)

So, an angel was sent to tell David the divine name. And the moment he pronounced it, the earth "opened her mouth and swallowed" the giant.

That's the story

About the names... Actually you are right. Names are used to perform an exorcism. In many jewish manuscripts described a way to summon a spirit or an angel by calling his name in some special moment.

The are many different spirits and angels in different levels of this world - some are even in our material world.

It is very facinating If you do not beleave in this abrakadabra (by the way - those are really magic words - but in arameic (ancient semitic language) - it means "I'll create as I say" - those were use by the shamans and pagan priests ) - fine .

But i recommend reading some legends - it's like fantasy - only better (ask 4 links)

[AaronB]

Originally posted by Z'ha'dumDweller

Thanks, Jan, but I learned all that in 1982 from the book "Charlie Brown's Big Book of Facts" or some such.

Did it mention The Great Pumpkin ???

[Dr Maturin]

<<The term Halloween, though, stems from All Hallows Eve which is the night before All Souls Day/All Souls Day, a Christian (Catholic?) observance. Of course, as many Christian holidays were set, there's a pagan festival at or near the same time called Samhain which celebrates the end of summer/harvest. As I recall, on Halloween the superstion was that the spirits could come over from 'beyond' and wearing masks could help frighten them away.>>

Thanks, Jan, but I learned all that in 1982 from the book "Charlie Brown's Big Book of Facts" or some such.

[Jan]

Originally posted by Z'ha'dumDweller
Aside from all this, if Halloween is pagan in origin, therefore religious, should it not be banned from schools, due to "separation of church and state?" Or is it just a folk holiday now?

Basically, it's just a folk holiday these days.

The term Halloween, though, stems from All Hallows Eve which is the night before All Souls Day/All Souls Day, a Christian (Catholic?) observance. Of course, as many Christian holidays were set, there's a pagan festival at or near the same time called Samhain which celebrates the end of summer/harvest. As I recall, on Halloween the superstion was that the spirits could come over from 'beyond' and wearing masks could help frighten them away.

There now, how's that for more than you ever wanted to know? ;-)

Jan

[Dr Maturin]

<<The mention of Wiccans reminds me, I saw in the news yesterday that a schoold district (was it in Salt Lake City maybe?) banned Halloween celebrations because its representation of witches might offend Wiccans...>>

Speak of the devil. No pun intended. I just saw a piece on that on the evil, biased FNC. They found a witch living outside the city because they couldn't find one in the city. She said she didn't care.

I don't know, Montoya, this sounds like a liberal PC thing to me. Besides, isn't SLC predominantly Mormon, not Christian?

Aside from all this, if Halloween is pagan in origin, therefore religious, should it not be banned from schools, due to "separation of church and state?" Or is it just a folk holiday now?

[I love Lyta]

"We believe that someone's name has a certain power in it."

OK, I'm no expert since I don't believe in Gods and I know the rituals of excorcism only from a movie on TV that is supposed to be based on a real occurrance.
But from what I seem to know so do the christians.
At least when it comes to excorcism and demons.
They always ask the demon's secret name.

I was about to write a well known quote from The Life of Brian here but wouldn't want to offend spirit.

[cruiser]

The mention of Wiccans reminds me, I saw in the news yesterday that a schoold district (was it in Salt Lake City maybe?) banned Halloween celebrations because its representation of witches might offend Wiccans...

I read about that...what a bunch of horse hockey!!!! And besides...if Halloween is part of a religous celebration it shouldn't be allowed in schools to begin with. We must have seperation of church and state.

As for JMS...whatever his beliefs, his writing espouses Love, compassion and self-sacrifice...which is good enough for me.

Edit:Was browsing my bookmarked news sites and saw this article about the Halloween dispute.

[Dr Maturin]

Originally posted by Jan
That's an individual thing. Since there's no 'head' of a Wiccan religion (recognized by most/all, at least), there's no way that as a religion it's designed that to offend or anger.

Well, I wish people could believe that about followers of the Holy Bible. Not every church is a redneck preacher saying that we should kill homosexuals and blow up abortion clinics.

Even so, church is not my thing. I tend to disagree with pastors and other churchgoers about certain things in the Bible and sometimes they see that as wrong. More than wrong...they sometimes see it as sacrilege. One church I went to as a kid had a pastor who could apparently tell you exactly which countries would invade Israel in Armageddon. That, to me, is going too far. Funnily, one of them was Iraq, but I don't see that happening now. Could be, but not likely.

[Capt.Montoya]

Originally posted by Z'ha'dumDweller
Well, I think some things in some religions are designed to offend or anger other religions. Like the Wiccan use the term "xtian." Which is why I steer clear of religion. I am spiritual.

I guess you don't celebrate Xmas then?

(BTW, you could always use an emoticon to indicate it's a joke)

The mention of Wiccans reminds me, I saw in the news yesterday that a schoold district (was it in Salt Lake City maybe?) banned Halloween celebrations because its representation of witches might offend Wiccans...
I laughed at that, but I think it's nothing more that using political corrects as an excuse for Christian fundamentalist suppression of a celebration that was pagan in origin, not the first time, unfortunately not the latest...

I'm a Catholic, but the dichotomy of some self-professed Christians ("you're either with us or with Satan") is one aspect of religion I don't like. The fact that most fervent Christians (and Catholics too) ignore several of the principles and history of their religion is another.
The date of Christmas was artificially set to coincide with a pagan ritual after all... the hoolabaloo about Halloween baffles me much because of that.

But back to the topic:

Is G-d one of the nine billion names of God?

I submit to you that Sinclair should have included a scrolling screen with that list in presenting the religions of Earth, it would have been a nice homage (or maybe too osbcure? or maybe... maybe he didn't want the Universe to end?)

Oh, wait, that wasn't really the original topic, was it?

[Jan]

Originally posted by Z'ha'dumDweller
Well, I think some things in some religions are designed to offend or anger other religions. Like the Wiccan use the term "xtian." Which is why I steer clear of religion. I am spiritual.

That's an individual thing. Since there's no 'head' of a Wiccan religion (recognized by most/all, at least), there's no way that as a religion it's designed that to offend or anger. I've never known a wiccan/pagan to go out of their way to offend members of other religions but ymmv, of course.

Jan

[Dr Maturin]

Well, I think some things in some religions are designed to offend or anger other religions. Like the Wiccan use the term "xtian." Which is why I steer clear of religion. I am spiritual.

Funnily, I meant "Except for offending someone by replacing a letter in the name of their deity with a dash?" as a joke. That's the bad thing about message boards and other electronic communication mediums. You can't convey tone of voice and such.

[Spirit]

Originally posted by Flynn2000
I like what Colonyearth said. Like him I am an agnostic.

Sadly each day I slip towards atheism a little more as I see the religious of the world do there level best to ruin the planet in the name of an angry god.

The only religions that I have respect for are some the eastern religions. They seem to encourage intellectual growth and the need, at least, to understand our universe. And they don't seem so cocksure and self satisfied that they know it all and that there way is the exact and only way.

I can have respect for people of faith but rarely religious people. I think there is a difference.


If this is heaven wouldnÆt that be hell?



TWT

It may sound not polite but I think you are wrong.
I agree with the fact that people who forget the creeds of the faith sometimes do terrible things, but I recall that three main religions speak about compassion, love of humanity (altruism) etc.
At least this is what I was taught in my house.
It is sad that some people abuse His holly name to justify a murder. There is no justified loss of life (except for selfdefence and saving of lifes).

Don't lose your faith (what ever it is). Just remeber - He set that only one thing is more holly then He self - that thing is a human life.

[Jan]

Originally posted by Spirit
For me saying "G-d" is a way to reference Him respectfully. That's it .

Thanks Spirit. I think that some people in the Church of Latter Day Saints do the same, too.

Jan

[colonyearth]

But watch out, because G-d forbid you should offend the pious Christian with your Kabala beliefs! OMG! It's more important to not offend the Christians than to have your own beliefs!

Just ask ZHDD!

Feh!

CE

[Jan]

Originally posted by Z'ha'dumDweller
<< they're all to be treated in an equally respectful manner.>>

Except for offending someone by replacing a letter in the name of their deity with a dash?

But if doing that is respectful in that person's eyes but it offends another, both should respect each other's needs as long as there's no malice intended.

Jan