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Babylon 5, Great Maker, and Religion

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  • #31
    Originally posted by CRONAN
    Denial can be an ugly thing.
    Cynics can be just as ugly.
    Radhil Trebors
    Persona Under Construction

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    • #32
      Originally posted by Towelmaster
      That was good yeah. And what struck me as the finishing touch was that he also introduced 'an atheist'... jms 4evah!
      Of course, he upset a lot of people because he didn't introduce an Eastern Rite Atheist and a Reformed Atheist as well as a mainstream atheist,
      I believe that when we leave a place, part of it goes with us and part of us remains. Go anywhere in the station, when it is quiet, and just listen. After a while, you will hear the echoes of all our conversations, every thought and word we've exchanged. Long after we are gone .. our voices will linger in these walls for as long as this place remains. But I will admit .. that the part of me that is going .. will very much miss the part of you that is staying.

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      • #33
        First of all, thank you to those who felt I hit something on the head. That's always fun to do.

        Secondly, grumbler, you just have to go and muck up the water, don't you?

        And while this has been said numerous times in numerous threads, how many of you know that groups of people sprang up during and after B5 calling themselves Straczynskians because the cosmology JMS laid down throughout B5 finally put into clear and concise words what they believed?

        JMS actually doesn't like this, since it puts him in the position G'Kar finds himself in in B5, which I've often wondered if it wasn't a bit of JMS biting back.

        And, I've posed this question before and recently couldn't help but read (I think on here) that JMS postulated it himself.

        If JMS is, in fact, the Great Maker; and if JMS is, in fact, an atheist; does it not logically follow that JMS no longer believes in himself?

        CE
        Anthony Flessas
        Writer/Producer/Director,
        SP Pictures


        I have no avatar! I walk in mystery and need nothing to represent who and what I am!

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        • #34
          << they're all to be treated in an equally respectful manner.>>

          Except for offending someone by replacing a letter in the name of their deity with a dash?
          Recently, there was a reckoning. It occurred on November 4, 2014 across the United States. Voters, recognizing the failures of the current leadership and fearing their unchecked abuses of power, elected another party as the new majority. This is a first step toward preventing more damage and undoing some of the damage already done. Hopefully, this is as much as will be required.

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by colonyearth
            If JMS is, in fact, the Great Maker; and if JMS is, in fact, an atheist; does it not logically follow that JMS no longer believes in himself? CE
            jms did mention that in one of his usenet posts in the past month. He said something about imploding. It was rather humorous.
            "Ivanova is God!"

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            • #36
              Originally posted by Jan
              Uh...Michael? Exactly what basis do you have for your 'suspicions'? What 'barbs' are you talking about? Actually, I know of at least two sects that simply do not refer to *any* name of God; it's part of their belief structure. Since in communication with others it's necessary to use symbols those non-sect people would recognize, that particular way of typing the word God has been adopted. I don't know how it's dealt with verbally. Isn't it at least as worthy of your respect as any other?

              I don't know if that's the exact reason here, but why ascribe to malice what you don't know?

              Jan
              Well, let me explain
              I'm a Jew - as i've may stated many times
              In Judaism it is common not to use any version of His name. And "G-d" - well, when you write it fully - it is actually one of His names (though in English). We believe that someone's name
              has a certain power in it. The name has a very important spiritual role and meaning. Kabala provides some basic tools to understand this. It's very interesting and I wish I had more time to start learning it .

              For me saying "G-d" is a way to reference Him respectfully. That's it .
              Seek salvation, for the war is here... Deny nothing

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              • #37
                Originally posted by Z'ha'dumDweller
                << they're all to be treated in an equally respectful manner.>>

                Except for offending someone by replacing a letter in the name of their deity with a dash?
                But if doing that is respectful in that person's eyes but it offends another, both should respect each other's needs as long as there's no malice intended.

                Jan
                "As empathy spreads, civilization spreads. As empathy contracts, civilization contracts...as we're seeing now.

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                • #38
                  But watch out, because G-d forbid you should offend the pious Christian with your Kabala beliefs! OMG! It's more important to not offend the Christians than to have your own beliefs!

                  Just ask ZHDD!

                  Feh!

                  CE
                  Anthony Flessas
                  Writer/Producer/Director,
                  SP Pictures


                  I have no avatar! I walk in mystery and need nothing to represent who and what I am!

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Spirit
                    For me saying "G-d" is a way to reference Him respectfully. That's it .
                    Thanks Spirit. I think that some people in the Church of Latter Day Saints do the same, too.

                    Jan
                    "As empathy spreads, civilization spreads. As empathy contracts, civilization contracts...as we're seeing now.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Flynn2000
                      I like what Colonyearth said. Like him I am an agnostic.

                      Sadly each day I slip towards atheism a little more as I see the religious of the world do there level best to ruin the planet in the name of an angry god.

                      The only religions that I have respect for are some the eastern religions. They seem to encourage intellectual growth and the need, at least, to understand our universe. And they don't seem so cocksure and self satisfied that they know it all and that there way is the exact and only way.

                      I can have respect for people of faith but rarely religious people. I think there is a difference.


                      If this is heaven wouldnÆt that be hell?



                      TWT
                      It may sound not polite but I think you are wrong.
                      I agree with the fact that people who forget the creeds of the faith sometimes do terrible things, but I recall that three main religions speak about compassion, love of humanity (altruism) etc.
                      At least this is what I was taught in my house.
                      It is sad that some people abuse His holly name to justify a murder. There is no justified loss of life (except for selfdefence and saving of lifes).

                      Don't lose your faith (what ever it is). Just remeber - He set that only one thing is more holly then He self - that thing is a human life.
                      Seek salvation, for the war is here... Deny nothing

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                      • #41
                        Well, I think some things in some religions are designed to offend or anger other religions. Like the Wiccan use the term "xtian." Which is why I steer clear of religion. I am spiritual.

                        Funnily, I meant "Except for offending someone by replacing a letter in the name of their deity with a dash?" as a joke. That's the bad thing about message boards and other electronic communication mediums. You can't convey tone of voice and such.
                        Recently, there was a reckoning. It occurred on November 4, 2014 across the United States. Voters, recognizing the failures of the current leadership and fearing their unchecked abuses of power, elected another party as the new majority. This is a first step toward preventing more damage and undoing some of the damage already done. Hopefully, this is as much as will be required.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Z'ha'dumDweller
                          Well, I think some things in some religions are designed to offend or anger other religions. Like the Wiccan use the term "xtian." Which is why I steer clear of religion. I am spiritual.
                          That's an individual thing. Since there's no 'head' of a Wiccan religion (recognized by most/all, at least), there's no way that as a religion it's designed that to offend or anger. I've never known a wiccan/pagan to go out of their way to offend members of other religions but ymmv, of course.

                          Jan
                          "As empathy spreads, civilization spreads. As empathy contracts, civilization contracts...as we're seeing now.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by Z'ha'dumDweller
                            Well, I think some things in some religions are designed to offend or anger other religions. Like the Wiccan use the term "xtian." Which is why I steer clear of religion. I am spiritual.
                            I guess you don't celebrate Xmas then?

                            (BTW, you could always use an emoticon to indicate it's a joke)

                            The mention of Wiccans reminds me, I saw in the news yesterday that a schoold district (was it in Salt Lake City maybe?) banned Halloween celebrations because its representation of witches might offend Wiccans...
                            I laughed at that, but I think it's nothing more that using political corrects as an excuse for Christian fundamentalist suppression of a celebration that was pagan in origin, not the first time, unfortunately not the latest...

                            I'm a Catholic, but the dichotomy of some self-professed Christians ("you're either with us or with Satan") is one aspect of religion I don't like. The fact that most fervent Christians (and Catholics too) ignore several of the principles and history of their religion is another.
                            The date of Christmas was artificially set to coincide with a pagan ritual after all... the hoolabaloo about Halloween baffles me much because of that.

                            But back to the topic:

                            Is G-d one of the nine billion names of God?

                            I submit to you that Sinclair should have included a scrolling screen with that list in presenting the religions of Earth, it would have been a nice homage (or maybe too osbcure? or maybe... maybe he didn't want the Universe to end?)

                            Oh, wait, that wasn't really the original topic, was it?
                            Such... is the respect paid to science that the most absurd opinions may become current, provided they are expressed in language, the sound of which recalls some well-known scientific phrase
                            James Clerk Maxwell (1831-79)

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                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Jan
                              That's an individual thing. Since there's no 'head' of a Wiccan religion (recognized by most/all, at least), there's no way that as a religion it's designed that to offend or anger.
                              Well, I wish people could believe that about followers of the Holy Bible. Not every church is a redneck preacher saying that we should kill homosexuals and blow up abortion clinics.

                              Even so, church is not my thing. I tend to disagree with pastors and other churchgoers about certain things in the Bible and sometimes they see that as wrong. More than wrong...they sometimes see it as sacrilege. One church I went to as a kid had a pastor who could apparently tell you exactly which countries would invade Israel in Armageddon. That, to me, is going too far. Funnily, one of them was Iraq, but I don't see that happening now. Could be, but not likely.
                              Recently, there was a reckoning. It occurred on November 4, 2014 across the United States. Voters, recognizing the failures of the current leadership and fearing their unchecked abuses of power, elected another party as the new majority. This is a first step toward preventing more damage and undoing some of the damage already done. Hopefully, this is as much as will be required.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                The mention of Wiccans reminds me, I saw in the news yesterday that a schoold district (was it in Salt Lake City maybe?) banned Halloween celebrations because its representation of witches might offend Wiccans...
                                I read about that...what a bunch of horse hockey!!!! And besides...if Halloween is part of a religous celebration it shouldn't be allowed in schools to begin with. We must have seperation of church and state.

                                As for JMS...whatever his beliefs, his writing espouses Love, compassion and self-sacrifice...which is good enough for me.

                                Edit:Was browsing my bookmarked news sites and saw this article about the Halloween dispute.
                                Last edited by cruiser; 10-28-2004, 04:41 AM.
                                I had the dagger in my hand! And he has the indecency to start dying on his own.

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