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Babylon 5, Great Maker, and Religion

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Jan
    He obviously believes in truth and keeping promises and acting honorably toward others. He simply doesn't require a god to believe in all that.
    Why is there no applause-emoticon here?

    Religion is believing in a specific sort of way. That has nothing to do with 'believing' as such. I believe that the universe is quite capable of being way to complex for us to ever fully understand it. But why should I have to 'invent' a god for that?

    I absolutely LOVE the expression jms used when he made Delenn say "We are the universe trying to understand itself". Spot on Joe!

    Says it all for me basically. It wasn't jms who made me realize it of course. But he put it one sentence.

    Besides : I personally don't want a superbeing or whatever that I can blame when I F*** up. That cheap, it is our own fault and we shouldn't be hiding behind doctrine. We should do something about it.

    However: Anyone who wants to believe in whichever god they want is free to do so as far as I'm concerned. Just don't try to shove it down my throat.

    Of course I still have to look at Zen Buddhism...
    "En wat als tijd de helft van echtheid was, was alles dan dubbelsnel verbaal?"

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    • #17
      "Understanding is a three-edged sword."

      Anthony Flessas
      Writer/Producer/Director,
      SP Pictures


      I have no avatar! I walk in mystery and need nothing to represent who and what I am!

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      • #18
        a piece of kosh

        Invent G-d




        Well... What can I say - I wasn't clear in my previous post.

        I was not talking about G-d specificly - I'm talking about the idea of some supervising force/race/intelligence that guides us though the life giving it a solid nonmaterial meaning.

        You would say that this is a universe trying to understand it self - and I'll agree with you partially. You would say that it is G-d - and again I will partially agree with you. There is no way we can see the absolute truth in this (or any other) question. But we can see a part of it - the part that says - there is someone/something out there - and it doesn't matter what, 'cause we can never fully understand it.

        And this part stays the same any way you slice it.
        Seek salvation, for the war is here... Deny nothing

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        • #19
          Mark Twain's thoughts

          Mark Twain once said "If God created man, certainly man has returned the favor."

          My personal beliefs parallel many aspects of the explorations in B5 on religion and spirituality (they are NOT the same).

          Does the Universe have a creative force? I believe so.

          Is that the Judeo-Christian-Islamic god? I don't think so.

          Has man taken those among him (and perhaps even Vorlons) and called them gods in order to access part of that creative force? Absolutely. And thus we have mythology, religion and such.
          "Ivanova is God!"

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Towelmaster
            However: Anyone who wants to believe in whichever god they want is free to do so as far as I'm concerned. Just don't try to shove it down my throat.

            Of course I still have to look at Zen Buddhism...
            Tastes great, less filling.

            (if anyone gets that reference)

            There was one passage I read out of a Buddhism book that seems a little apt, and I'll paraphrase, sum up, and generally mangle here:

            A monk goes up to Buddha and asks him, "Hey! Look, I get what you're teaching, inner-peace, suffering, yada yada yada, but who created us? Why are we here? What's with this existence stuff? What's our purpose? What's all this mean? You're the leader, the teacher, you're supposed to tell us this stuff!"

            Buddha looks up at him and says, "Did I ever say I was going to teach you these things?"

            "Er, well... no, not exactly... that's what I expected though."

            "Sorry, but I only teach what I know."

            (season with Sanskrit words and vague meaningful repetition of phrases as you like to get the original out of this Radhilized version)
            Radhil Trebors
            Persona Under Construction

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            • #21
              a queston:

              what is it with typing "G-d" all the time?

              i mean... it`s a simple three letter word and "-" is nowhere near G and H.
              "The trouble with being a cynic is that you eventually get labelled as a highly reliable fortune-teller"

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              • #22
                Buddha looks up at him and says, "Did I ever say I was going to teach you these things?"

                "Er, well... no, not exactly... that's what I expected though."

                "Sorry, but I only teach what I know."
                Gosh, Bhudda must have been channeling G'Kar that day.

                Never trust a "Holy Man" who thinks he has Any of the answers.

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                • #23
                  Jal asked about the mysterious use of "G-d" in some recent posts.

                  I may not know the real reason for this coping out, but I have suspicions that the root lies in PC Nazis who are in denial. I have seen this on the university campus where I work...where I was also a student years ago.

                  It is one thing to simply say "I do not believe" or "I disagree with you on that", and quite another to add barbs clearly intended to mock a person with a different point of view or provoke an angry response.

                  In my book, the un-called for insults and provocations are merely the actions taken by people with no manners and who seem to feel somehow elevated by their immature acts. How sad it is that these people have such low self esteem that they feel the need to insult others to raise their own status.
                  Michael Malloy

                  Never forget:

                  Moscow; Beslan 2004
                  Kosovo: 1999, 2004
                  New York City: September 11, 2001
                  Smyrna: September 9, 1922

                  http://www.hri.org/docs/Horton/hb-title.html
                  Armenian Genocide in Turkey: 1915-1917
                  http://www.armenian-genocide.org/

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                  • #24
                    originaly posted by Colonyearth

                    Infinity itself is beyond our ability to comprehend it. Anyone who says, "I know the truth, absolutely and with certainty and this religion or ideology is that truth," I tend to look at with sadness, for that person will never know all they could, or learn all that they could learn.
                    I like what Colonyearth said. Like him I am an agnostic.

                    Sadly each day I slip towards atheism a little more as I see the religious of the world do there level best to ruin the planet in the name of an angry god.

                    The only religions that I have respect for are some the eastern religions. They seem to encourage intellectual growth and the need, at least, to understand our universe. And they don't seem so cocksure and self satisfied that they know it all and that there way is the exact and only way.

                    I can have respect for people of faith but rarely religious people. I think there is a difference.


                    If this is heaven wouldnÆt that be hell?



                    TWT

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                    • #25
                      It is one thing to simply say "I do not believe" or "I disagree with you on that", and quite another to add barbs clearly intended to mock a person with a different point of view or provoke an angry response.
                      I hadn't replied to that because I didn't have a serious answer, but honestly, I didn't get that. G-d I've heard in other places. Hell, on TV shows, about G-d (see Arcadia, Joan, also under viewing, recommended).

                      I don't know what the hell the actual purpose of the shortcut it, but I really doubt it's malicious. Maybe a retrograde way of making the actual use of the word God a little more meaningful by using it less.

                      Who knows. I'm babbling.

                      And since Flynn brought it to my attention (why I wasn't paying attention before, I dunno)... but CE - Hammer, nail, head. I have more words in that vien, but the brain is being balky.
                      Radhil Trebors
                      Persona Under Construction

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                      • #26
                        Denial can be an ugly thing.

                        - Ace Ventura, Pet Detective

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                        • #27
                          may not know the real reason for this coping out, but I have suspicions that the root lies in PC Nazis who are in denial. I have seen this on the university campus where I work...where I was also a student years ago.
                          seems strange to me, i just can`t see a reasonable purpose to misspell it.


                          I can have respect for people of faith but rarely religious people. I think there is a difference.
                          sometimes they both occur in a person, sometimes they don`t, most of the time "ego" gets in the way.


                          i might have given Buddhism a go, but unfortunately, i don`t believe in reincarnation either.
                          "The trouble with being a cynic is that you eventually get labelled as a highly reliable fortune-teller"

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Michael Malloy
                            Jal asked about the mysterious use of "G-d" in some recent posts.

                            I may not know the real reason for this coping out, but I have suspicions that the root lies in PC Nazis who are in denial. I have seen this on the university campus where I work...where I was also a student years ago.

                            It is one thing to simply say "I do not believe" or "I disagree with you on that", and quite another to add barbs clearly intended to mock a person with a different point of view or provoke an angry response.
                            Uh...Michael? Exactly what basis do you have for your 'suspicions'? What 'barbs' are you talking about? Actually, I know of at least two sects that simply do not refer to *any* name of God; it's part of their belief structure. Since in communication with others it's necessary to use symbols those non-sect people would recognize, that particular way of typing the word God has been adopted. I don't know how it's dealt with verbally. Isn't it at least as worthy of your respect as any other?

                            I don't know if that's the exact reason here, but why ascribe to malice what you don't know?

                            Jan
                            "As empathy spreads, civilization spreads. As empathy contracts, civilization contracts...as we're seeing now.

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                            • #29
                              I think one of the best examples of JMS's viewpoint on religion is displayed in that one episode where in the end people of all the different religions are lined up to display the diversity of religious belief on earth and that they're all to be treated in an equally respectful manner.
                              Last edited by I love Lyta; 10-26-2004, 02:36 AM.
                              What's up Drakh?

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                              • #30
                                That was good yeah. And what struck me as the finishing touch was that he also introduced 'an atheist'... jms 4evah!
                                "En wat als tijd de helft van echtheid was, was alles dan dubbelsnel verbaal?"

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