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  • Unpopular/overlooked things that you like?

    Does anyone else have any unpopular or overlooked arcs or characters or episodes etc that you really like?

    I was thinking about it the other day. I tend to like the things that aren't often mentioned in the "the best of Babylon 5" discussions. Came up with 2 things.

    The first is the unnamed Ranger who brought the news that the Enphili were being attacked by raiders and wanted to join the Interstellar Alliance in S5E3 A Paragon of Animals. He gave his life to get the information to Babylon 5 and was scanned by Lyta when he was dying. All he cared about was making sure that he finished his mission, but he didn't live long enough to know about the White Star taking up position around the planet to protect them. That story affected me just as much as stuff like Sleeping in Light and seeing Sinclair become Valen.

    The second is Legend of the Rangers. Before watching it I knew that The Gathering and In the Beginning were the most recommended movies and some fans said to skip the rest, but I was surprised to find out that my favorite B5 movie is the least popular one. And before I continue this I'm just going to say that I don't pay attention to the weapon system. I watch Babylon 5 for the characters and the big or small stories, not the space battles.

    I enjoyed David's story in the pilot and his interactions with Dulann and Sarah. But what really sold the movie for me and made it one of my favorite B5 things to watch instead of being "just" good was G'Kar. When I first watched it almost everything he said, especially to the grey counsil, hit me on a personal level. I was, and to some extent am, struggling with survivor's guilt. When I watched the movie the first time I had an anniversary coming up. In G'Kar's first scene he asks and finds out that David's "crime" was remaining alive. His response, "Curious. Until now I hadn't known that was a crime", basically turned into "Knock, knock, Melanie. Pay attention to this". I lost count on how many times I watched the movie at the earliest opportunity. By the end of it they've come full circle. David is telling the grey counsil that Tannier did as well as anyone could have under the circumstances and G'Kar has found another closed door to consider open when he appears out of nowhere for another speech.

    "As did you. Those are important words, 'under the circumstances'. We all do what we can with what we are given. We are... imperfect reflections of the universe. We can only hope to learn and create a world in which such errors do not occur. Unfortunately we're still working on that last part."

    I'm writing this from memory since I can't find it with google and I'm currently not at home with my DVD. The first time I watched it I was surprised when he showed up and it became another quote that spoke to me, but I've started waiting for it now that I know it's coming.

    And then I get goosebumps at the end when they go to Babylon 5 and G'Kar says his line from Mind War. "But if you ever do come aboard, remember this. No one there is exactly who he appears. But then, who is?".
    "It means living each moment as if it were your last one. It means doing each right thing because it is the right thing. The scale doesn't matter. The where, the when, the how, or in what cause... none of those things matter."

  • #2
    So do you want one possible "unpopular" thing and one "overlooked" or does it matter? I mean there are tons of little overlooked things and characters I wanted to know more about and I just love.
    Susan Ivanova, "I'll be in the car."

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Looney View Post
      So do you want one possible "unpopular" thing and one "overlooked" or does it matter? I mean there are tons of little overlooked things and characters I wanted to know more about and I just love.
      It can be however many you think of.
      "It means living each moment as if it were your last one. It means doing each right thing because it is the right thing. The scale doesn't matter. The where, the when, the how, or in what cause... none of those things matter."

      Comment


      • #4
        the fella who plays weyoon in ds9 is in one of the early episodes. so, they didnt just steal the story, they also stole the actors!

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by ombuds wellington View Post
          the fella who plays weyoon in ds9 is in one of the early episodes. so, they didnt just steal the story, they also stole the actors!
          Yes that is one. I always wanted to know more about Harriman Gray (Jeffrey Combs) from Eyes, 1.16. I felt like he got lumped in with a bad apple and that was VERY well played out in the episode. Not necessarily a bad guy, but serving one. Why wasn't he in Black Omega Squadron? He clearly had high clearance, so is it possible he didn't know it existed? Can't remember what his Psi Rating, but was 12 a requirement for the Squadron? I think it was. Of course at that time in the show we didn't know they existed yet, but when we're first introduced to them I don't think they were supposed to be a new thing, just a secret one.
          Susan Ivanova, "I'll be in the car."

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Melanie View Post
            Does anyone else have any unpopular or overlooked arcs or characters or episodes etc that you really like?

            I was thinking about it the other day. I tend to like the things that aren't often mentioned in the "the best of Babylon 5" discussions.
            Just off the top of my head I'm thinking about a couple of Season 3 episodes. Season 3 was such a strong season that some of the lesser episodes get overlooked.

            For example, "A Day in the Strife" has a pretty low Poll 5 rating, #94 out of 114, but I think it has many memorable moments. I like that G'Kar has to deal with Centauri collaborators, "Vichy Narns" as it were. Stephen Macht was excellent as Na'Far, and I loved the bit near the end where Ta'Lon's "samurai code" required him to use his blade on himself once unsheathed. The parts with Sheridan at the Transport Association meeting were also great.

            Likewise, "Walkabout" is rated #78 out of 114, but has the great moment where Lyta's vision of Kosh's death gives her the strength to fight back against a Shadow vessel as she says "Burn you bastards." Although this space battle would be, no pun intended, overshadowed by later ones, it is memorable because of Lyta's personal attachment to Kosh.

            Comment


            • #7
              Alpha128, Agreed, I love "A Day in the Strife" and Ta'Lon as a character.

              It does help, however, that Marshall Teague who played Ta'Lon gave me a convention experience of a life time at Space City Con in January 2014.

              I have described it on my blog here .
              Jan from Denmark

              My blog :

              http://www.babylonlurker.dk

              "Our thoughts form the Universe - they *always* matter"

              Comment


              • #8
                I think The Lost Tales is shockingly underrated, particularly the Lochley bit. What JMS does there, the way he reimagines religious/mythological concepts to tell a humanist story, is breathtaking. It's some of his finest writing and it bugs the hell out of me that it didn't receive more recognition.
                Jonas Kyratzes | Lands of Dream

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by babylonlurker View Post
                  Alpha128, Agreed, I love "A Day in the Strife" and Ta'Lon as a character.

                  It does help, however, that Marshall Teague who played Ta'Lon gave me a convention experience of a life time at Space City Con in January 2014.

                  I have described it on my blog here .
                  babylonlurker, I visited your blog and read your wonderful story. Thank you for sharing.

                  P.S. I'm glad you didn't have to cut anyone before resheathing the sword

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by alpha128 View Post
                    For example, "A Day in the Strife" has a pretty low Poll 5 rating, #94 out of 114, but I think it has many memorable moments. I like that G'Kar has to deal with Centauri collaborators, "Vichy Narns" as it were. Stephen Macht was excellent as Na'Far, and I loved the bit near the end where Ta'Lon's "samurai code" required him to use his blade on himself once unsheathed. The parts with Sheridan at the Transport Association meeting were also great.
                    Interesting list. What I remember from A Day in the Strife is Vir being sent to Minbar despite his protests and the scene where the other Narns are stopping G'Kar from leaving. It also has the scene with Na'Far reporting to Londo and Londo asking him about the Centauri occupation while Vir was watching the whole thing.

                    I started at the bottom of the list and found Born to the Purple as #110. That one has some funny scenes I remember. Londo was hungover after a night with Adira and sent Vir the moon-faced assassin of joy to negotiate with G'Kar and not give away the homeworld. G'Kar gave Ko'Dath the exact same instructions. I like that foreshadowing of how the enemies are both trying to look out for what's best for their people. It's also the episode where Valen takes a gameboy from the future Emperor Cotto.

                    Sic Transit Vir is #91. That's my favorite episode of anything. With Vir's underground railroad, his attempts at hiding what he's really doing, Ivanova's and Sheridan's subtle reactions when finding out, Londo being anything but subtle when reminding me of why I hate him mid-season 3 and summing everything up by calling Lyndisty a true Centauri it's the perfect combination of things I like. Vir is my favorite character and this is the episode where we find out that he had gone from words to actions. He was protesting against the second Narn-Centauri war before it started, and now he's smuggled 2000 Narns to safety.
                    "It means living each moment as if it were your last one. It means doing each right thing because it is the right thing. The scale doesn't matter. The where, the when, the how, or in what cause... none of those things matter."

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Melanie View Post
                      What I remember from A Day in the Strife is Vir being sent to Minbar despite his protests and the scene where the other Narns are stopping G'Kar from leaving. It also has the scene with Na'Far reporting to Londo and Londo asking him about the Centauri occupation while Vir was watching the whole thing.
                      I had forgotten that "A Day in the Strife" is the episode where Vir leaves for Minbar. The part I mentioned with Ta'Lon's "samurai code" is at the end of the scene where the other Narns are stopping G'Kar from leaving. And obviously Na'Far's report to Londo had a big impact on what Vir decides to do later.

                      Originally posted by Melanie View Post
                      Sic Transit Vir is #91. That's my favorite episode of anything. With Vir's underground railroad, his attempts at hiding what he's really doing, Ivanova's and Sheridan's subtle reactions when finding out, Londo being anything but subtle when reminding me of why I hate him mid-season 3 and summing everything up by calling Lyndisty a true Centauri it's the perfect combination of things I like.
                      With your avatar, I imagined as much. The true Lyndisty was quite the reveal. She starts out as she says, "a most pleasant fact" and then quickly goes from cute and bubbly to creepy as hell.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Melanie View Post
                        The second is Legend of the Rangers.
                        Hi Melanie
                        Speaking of LotR:
                        the most overlooked and underrated character seems to me Tirk.
                        And what a heavy potential!

                        B5-Stefan


                        One of my favorite SIGs:
                        --
                        Tirk: "Tirk. Drazi. I carry very large things. I... I... Tirk. Drazi."
                        [LotR]

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by alpha128 View Post
                          With your avatar, I imagined as much. The true Lyndisty was quite the reveal. She starts out as she says, "a most pleasant fact" and then quickly goes from cute and bubbly to creepy as hell.
                          The first time I watched it I was in disbelief for most of the episode. It was the morning after I had watched Severed Dreams and I was still thinking of Delenn's last second rescue. I remember thinking things like "Vir's getting married? This seems too good to be true." "No, there's no way he killed them. ... Wait. Did he... He actually did save them. And what going on with that Narn following Lyndisty if they're not dead?" "She's crazy." "Why must the craziest person on the station have a conversation with Vir after he was found out?" "Ivanova, you'd better tell Vir that you're taking over as Lincolni. You must've heard that he wanted to stay on Minbar."

                          Originally posted by B5-Stefan View Post
                          Hi Melanie
                          Speaking of LotR:
                          the most overlooked and underrated character seems to me Tirk.
                          And what a heavy potential!

                          B5-Stefan


                          One of my favorite SIGs:
                          --
                          Tirk: "Tirk. Drazi. I carry very large things. I... I... Tirk. Drazi."
                          [LotR]
                          I love that scene with Tirk and the other Drazi when they discuss his name and then can't stop patting each other on the shoulder/hitting each other.
                          "It means living each moment as if it were your last one. It means doing each right thing because it is the right thing. The scale doesn't matter. The where, the when, the how, or in what cause... none of those things matter."

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Melanie View Post
                            I love that scene with Tirk and the other Drazi when they discuss his name and then can't stop patting each other on the shoulder/hitting each other.
                            Bit of a tangent here, but you made me kinda curious to re-watch LOTR. So I just did, and you know what, it's not quite as god awful as I remember it being.

                            I won't go over old ground with this one, because the flaws have been well documented. Those oft mentioned things aside, it's a fairly solid pilot and leaves a fair bit of scope for an interesting show. I do like the supernatural element of the ship being haunted.

                            I'm sure the quirks would have been ironed out as it went. It's a shame it didn't go to series because I have a feeling it might have been better than Crusade in the long run!

                            I think LOTR probably qualifies as 'unpopular' with B5 fandom... still unsure if I 'like' it though. I definitely didn't 'hate' it this time around, which is an improvement on last time I watched it!
                            Last edited by Ubik; 03-04-2017, 04:42 PM.
                            Captain John Sheridan: I really *hate* it when you do that.

                            Kosh: Good!

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                            • #15
                              I've always liked Rangers.

                              My 'overlooked' episode is 'Grail'. Sure, it's silly in parts and the fact that the director didn't direct (Compton had been fired and this was his final episode) sure didn't help but it's a quiet, gentle episode that I like. And the speech where Aldous talks about his grief is so touching. I think if it had had a competent director it might have been great.
                              "Fascism always comes in quietly, holding a flag in one hand and a holy book in the other, inching its way in. The bugles and drums only sound after they've already taken over and believe it's too late to do anything about it." JMS Twitter Dec. 24, 2017

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