Babylon 5, Season 1, condensed

[alpha128]

I disagree that Confessions and Lamentations covers what Believers did. Yeah medical drama with a twist that both have religious overtones, but they are different animals. Plus Believers really establishes big character traits for Sinclair and Franklin. Plus it is great because it shows two main characters who are supposed to be on the same side at odds with each other over a crisis that is in a very grey area.

I'm not saying that "Confessions and Lamentations" and "Believers" are clones of each other. I'm just saying that the two are similar, and I prefer "Confessions".

Perhaps I prefer it because the stakes are higher in "Confessions" - our regular characters, not to mention an entire species, are threatened with death. In "Believers" it's just Shon who is fighting for his life.

But I'll give "Believers" another watch to see if I change my mind.

[Ubik]

Something else I find very interesting about Believers is what would Sheridan have done? I've always wondered if JMS would have been able to write this episode the same way if Sheridan were in charge. Say you take Believers and put it in the middle of Season 3, 4, or 5; would John Sheridan have been able to do what Sinclair did without the audience questioning that character making that move? And say we throw his relationship with Delenn into that mix and see how it effects the outcome? Oooooo now all I can think about is WWJSDISO - What Would John Sheridan Do In Season One?

But now that I have that out of my system I would definitely not give your friends any summary of Believers. Save that as one they know nothing about so they can come back to it later. Just like they will want to do with Grail when they want to know Deuce's origin story after seeing Thirdspace.

Believers is definitely a quality episode IMHO. I only really came to appreciate it on my recent re-watch. It's great in that it breaks all the rules, it does something a show like ST: TNG would have never done, it allows things to play out without a happy ending. For that, it deserves credit. As far as human drama goes, I'd say this one is very good.

[Looney]

Hmmmmmm . . . . As far as Deathwalker goes I can see you might just explain to new viewers how Earthforce rose to power. But I disagree that Confessions and Lamentations covers what Believers did. Yeah medical drama with a twist that both have religious overtones, but they are different animals. Plus Believers really establishes big character traits for Sinclair and Franklin. Plus it is great because it shows two main characters who are supposed to be on the same side at odds with each other over a crisis that is in a very grey area.

Something else I find very interesting about Believers is what would Sheridan have done? I've always wondered if JMS would have been able to write this episode the same way if Sheridan were in charge. Say you take Believers and put it in the middle of Season 3, 4, or 5; would John Sheridan have been able to do what Sinclair did without the audience questioning that character making that move? And say we throw his relationship with Delenn into that mix and see how it effects the outcome? Oooooo now all I can think about is WWJSDISO - What Would John Sheridan Do In Season One?

But now that I have that out of my system I would definitely not give your friends any summary of Believers. Save that as one they know nothing about so they can come back to it later. Just like they will want to do with Grail when they want to know Deuce's origin story after seeing Thirdspace.

[alpha128]

I did a similar thing for one or two of my friends who were sceptical and it helped immensely. Once they're hooked in, they can always go back and re-watch if they so desire. Some folks will argue you need to watch everything, but I think the show (initially at least) can be a hard sell if you didn't see it at the time and in the context of what SF TV was back then.

I agree.

Your list looks pretty good to me. "Infection" is the one that made multiple friends switch off and never come back. Even I agree, that episode is just a real stinker. 'Eyes' is another one that suffers from chronic chewing of the scenery and over-acting. Just my humble opinion though.

I didn't rewatch "Eyes" during my preliminary Season 1 review, but I knew I had to cut it because it mentions "Deathwalker" which also didn't make the cut.

I would perhaps add in 'TKO' just because it's got a really great Ivanova B-Plot, plus you can have some fun with it... "look, look it's "Bloodsport" in space"! Plus the buddy cop vibes make it totally worthwhile if they can appreciate 80s/90s cheese. I try to make the cornier aspects of the show fun, in fact I think it's half the charm if taken in the right spirit.

Personally, I don't have a problem with "TKO", but since I've seen it on so many "Worst of Babylon 5" lists, I decided to not take any chances.

Thanks for your input.

[alpha128]

Tough, tough call because I love them all. I honestly think you should show them all, especially if you are going to watch it with them and will be there to answer questions or explain things.

Yes, I will be there to answer questions and explain things.

Deathwalker is critical because it goes back and establishes why Earth rose to power so quickly. It isn't really obvious about it, but it gives back story to why Earth became one of the big 5 races despite coming into contact with other races only recently by comparison.

That is true. But as I said, they aren't science fiction fans. So, I'm initially trying to maximize the human drama and minimize the outrageous sci-fi elements. So while "Deathwalker" gives the back story of the Dilgar war, it also has a guy with a funny hat and an exposed brain underneath.

Believers is a big one because it establishes choices and conflicts the Command staff have to deal with running such a large community. TKO, Grail, and even Eyes also touch on these themes, but I think Believers does it best when it comes to those aspects. Of course Eyes does do a whole lot of pointing out that there is something behind Sinclair being appointed to his position, so there is that to consider.

Those are good points, but from my perspective "Confessions and Lamentations" is similar to "Believers", i.e. medical drama with a twist ending, and does it better. As for pointing out there is something behind Sinclair's appointment that's done in an episode I've seen in my preliminary Season 1 rewatch (I can't remember which one right now) where Garlibaldi flat out tells Sinclair that the Minibari rejected every name on the command list until they got to his.

I hope that helps in some fashion. I know you probably wanted to hear more to cut, but I can't imagine cutting any of them because they all have their own merits in their own ways.

I do appreciate your input. Thank you.

[Ubik]

Alpha,

I did a similar thing for one or two of my friends who were sceptical and it helped immensely. Once they're hooked in, they can always go back and re-watch if they so desire. Some folks will argue you need to watch everything, but I think the show (initially at least) can be a hard sell if you didn't see it at the time and in the context of what SF TV was back then.

Your list looks pretty good to me. "Infection" is the one that made multiple friends switch off and never come back. Even I agree, that episode is just a real stinker. 'Eyes' is another one that suffers from chronic chewing of the scenery and over-acting. Just my humble opinion though.

I would perhaps add in 'TKO' just because it's got a really great Ivanova B-Plot, plus you can have some fun with it... "look, look it's "Bloodsport" in space"! Plus the buddy cop vibes make it totally worthwhile if they can appreciate 80s/90s cheese. I try to make the cornier aspects of the show fun, in fact I think it's half the charm if taken in the right spirit.

[Looney]

Tough, tough call because I love them all. I honestly think you should show them all, especially if you are going to watch it with them and will be there to answer questions or explain things. If you feel you must cut some out then all I can say is I think there are at least two you should add to the list.

Deathwalker is critical because it goes back and establishes why Earth rose to power so quickly. It isn't really obvious about it, but it gives back story to why Earth became one of the big 5 races despite coming into contact with other races only recently by comparison.

Believers is a big one because it establishes choices and conflicts the Command staff have to deal with running such a large community. TKO, Grail, and even Eyes also touch on these themes, but I think Believers does it best when it comes to those aspects. Of course Eyes does do a whole lot of pointing out that there is something behind Sinclair being appointed to his position, so there is that to consider. Plus it has Jeffrey Combs in it as a character I wish they had brought back at some point. Sorry, I really don't want to make it more difficult, but I just can't imagine skipping any myself especially if I am watching with the new viewers.

I hope that helps in some fashion. I know you probably wanted to hear more to cut, but I can't imagine cutting any of them because they all have their own merits in their own ways. Like take Infection for instance. As I have said here before, I feel Infection suffers from trying to condense too much story into one TV episode. There is really an epic story behind that episode and I feel like it would have been awesome if it could have been fleshed out more as a two part episode or TV movie. Actually that is kind of true with many B5 episodes, but that could just be me being greedy and wishing there had been more.

[alpha128]

Hi everyone,

I'm thinking of showing B5 to some non-science fiction fans. I hope if I can get them past some of the weaker and less arc-significant episodes of the first season, they might come to like it.

I found this article http://www.geek.com/geek-cetera/baby...piece-1613627/, but I think that condenses the first season a bit too much.

On the other hand, I missed much of the first season during its initial airing, but thankfully did see the following essential Season 1 episodes right before Season 2 started:

Signs and Portents
A Voice in the Wilderness part 1
A Voice in the Wilderness part 2
Chrysalis

My current plan is to show the following episodes from Season One ("Signs and Portents"):

# Title
1 Midnight on the Firing Line
2 Soul Hunter
3 Born to the Purple
5 The Parliament of Dreams
6 Mind War
7 The War Prayer
8 And The Sky Full Of Stars
11 Survivors
12 By Any Means Necessary
13 Signs and Portents
17 Legacies
18 A Voice in the Wilderness part 1
19 A Voice in the Wilderness part 2
20 Babylon Squared
21 The Quality of Mercy
22 Chrysalis

That's 16 out of 22 episodes (73%). Do you that's too many? Too few? Are there any episodes you would add to the list above, or cut? Please let me know. Thanks.