Babylon 5, Season 1, condensed

[Ubik]

But which one(s) look good? There are now two lists, "Initial List" and "Revised List". To recap:

INITIAL LIST - 16 out of 22 episodes (73%)

# Title Grade
1 Midnight on the Firing Line B
2 Soul Hunter C+
3 Born to the Purple C-
5 The Parliament of Dreams B+
6 Mind War B+
7 The War Prayer C
8 And The Sky Full Of Stars B+
11 Survivors C-
12 By Any Means Necessary A-
13 Signs and Portents B
17 Legacies B-
18 A Voice in the Wilderness part 1 B+
19 A Voice in the Wilderness part 2 A-
20 Babylon Squared A
21 The Quality of Mercy B
22 Chrysalis A

REVISED LIST - 12 out of 22 episodes (55%)

# Title Grade
1 Midnight on the Firing Line B
5 The Parliament of Dreams B+
6 Mind War B+
8 And The Sky Full Of Stars B+
12 By Any Means Necessary A-
13 Signs and Portents B
17 Legacies B-
18 A Voice in the Wilderness part 1 B+
19 A Voice in the Wilderness part 2 A-
20 Babylon Squared A
21 The Quality of Mercy B
22 Chrysalis A

The difference between the two is the "Initial List" includes the following four "C grade" episodes:

2 Soul Hunter: A fair amount of arc significance
3 Born to the Purple: Introduces Adira Tyree and shows the death of Ivanova's father
7 The War Prayer: Introduces the Home Guard and Londo's three wives, and gives a brief recap of "The Gathering"
11 Survivors: Introduces Garibaldi's alcoholism and foreshadows the events of "Chrysalis"

Based your own experience with "Season 1 'Redux' viewings with friends", do you think it's better to include those four episodes or skip them?

I think it's perhaps best to just go with your gut and their initial reaction to each episode. If they are digging it, include those for sure... They're all fairly solid episodes.

It also depends on how well they cope with the hammier elements of the show. Much of William Morgan Sheppard's performance in Soul Hunter had me in stitches, probably for the wrong reasons. Do they like B-Movies? Are they able to deeply enjoy things which are flawed, yet succeed because they're doing good things with limited resources?

All depends on your audience really. Don't stress it too much, and let the show speak for itself. Always fun to include some triva too if that interests them (Lurker's guide stuff is always fun).

[alpha128]

I would still skip 'Infection' no matter what. Hahahaha...

I've done quite a few Season 1 'Redux' viewings with friends and I honestly think it's the best way to hook them in. Your list looks good to me.

But which one(s) look good? There are now two lists, "Initial List" and "Revised List". To recap:

INITIAL LIST - 16 out of 22 episodes (73%)

# Title Grade
1 Midnight on the Firing Line B
2 Soul Hunter C+
3 Born to the Purple C-
5 The Parliament of Dreams B+
6 Mind War B+
7 The War Prayer C
8 And The Sky Full Of Stars B+
11 Survivors C-
12 By Any Means Necessary A-
13 Signs and Portents B
17 Legacies B-
18 A Voice in the Wilderness part 1 B+
19 A Voice in the Wilderness part 2 A-
20 Babylon Squared A
21 The Quality of Mercy B
22 Chrysalis A

REVISED LIST - 12 out of 22 episodes (55%)

# Title Grade
1 Midnight on the Firing Line B
5 The Parliament of Dreams B+
6 Mind War B+
8 And The Sky Full Of Stars B+
12 By Any Means Necessary A-
13 Signs and Portents B
17 Legacies B-
18 A Voice in the Wilderness part 1 B+
19 A Voice in the Wilderness part 2 A-
20 Babylon Squared A
21 The Quality of Mercy B
22 Chrysalis A

The difference between the two is the "Initial List" includes the following four "C grade" episodes:

2 Soul Hunter: A fair amount of arc significance
3 Born to the Purple: Introduces Adira Tyree and shows the death of Ivanova's father
7 The War Prayer: Introduces the Home Guard and Londo's three wives, and gives a brief recap of "The Gathering"
11 Survivors: Introduces Garibaldi's alcoholism and foreshadows the events of "Chrysalis"

Based your own experience with "Season 1 'Redux' viewings with friends", do you think it's better to include those four episodes or skip them?

[Ubik]

So, their initial reaction to "Midnight on the Firing Line" will guide which list we watch. If they're enthusiastic, we'll watch 'em all. If they can see potential but aren't thrilled, we'll go with my initial 16 episode list. If "Midnight" didn't work for them, we'll try the 12 episode revised list.

I would still skip 'Infection' no matter what. Hahahaha...

Honestly, it put my friend right off the show, who is both deeply intelligent and loves SF. So beware! It should be kept in mind them we're all talking about B5 from the perspective of very invested fans. Let's face it, the beauty of the show is only really evident once you've seen it as a whole. S1 only really becomes 'excellent' when you can spot all the Easter eggs and foreshadowing. So, there would be a certain joy to going back and having a few new things to watch i think.

I've done quite a few Season 1 'Redux' viewings with friends and I honestly think it's the best way to hook them in. Your list looks good to me.

[alpha128]

Not wanting to stifle discussion but my feeling is that they either watch it all or not at all. Somebody once tried to find all the episodes with no arc in them and didn't find even one.

Perhaps. But there's arc and then there's ARC. If arc was sugar, some episodes would have a little sprinkled on top, while others would have half the bag dumped on them.

I think I'm going to follow the advice of the reviewer at the A.V. Club who divides first time viewers of "Midnight on the Firing Line" into three camps. He wrote:

"'Midnight On The Firing Line' is my test for new Babylon 5 viewers. The levels of potential and competence are subjective enough that I’d expect a variety of different reactions.

This was good! I’m interested in learning more right away

I can see the potential, but the entertainment doesn’t match it yet

This isn’t working for me, though there may be something to it"

Babylon 5: “Midnight On The Firing Line”/“Soul Hunter”

So, their initial reaction to "Midnight on the Firing Line" will guide which list we watch. If they're enthusiastic, we'll watch 'em all. If they can see potential but aren't thrilled, we'll go with my initial 16 episode list. If "Midnight" didn't work for them, we'll try the 12 episode revised list.

[alpha128]

I love PoI. I have not yet seen the final season. As soon as I can get my hands on a DVD/BluRay season 5 set playable here I will get to it.

I do not think you will be disappointed. Like B5, the POI series finale is very emotional.

Your revised list is not bad at all, if you find that you *must* reduce it.

Thanks for your input.

[Jan]

Not wanting to stifle discussion but my feeling is that they either watch it all or not at all. Somebody once tried to find all the episodes with no arc in them and didn't find even one. So the times I've shared it with people I've told them that it was only for people smart enough to pay close attention and patient enough to get a great payoff and I thought they qualified. So far it's always worked. Flattery works wonders.

[babylonlurker]

All of POI is on Netflix I think. (sorry to slightly derail the thread!)

Not where I am located, unless it arrived less than 2 days ago. Omly 3 seasons here.

And now back to the original topic

[Ubik]

I love PoI. I have not yet seen the final season, not yet available here, but I am introducing it to a friend of mine, having a day of watching 6-10 episodes each month.

As soon as I can get my hands on a DVD/BluRay season 5 set playable here I will get to it.

Looking forward to your friend's reaction to B5. Your revised list is not bad at all, if you find that you *must* reduce it.

All of POI is on Netflix I think. (sorry to slightly derail the thread!)

[babylonlurker]

We've been watching "Person of Interest" (a more contemporary series in every sense) and we have only two episodes to go. After that, I hope it will be "Midnight on the Firing Line".

I love PoI. I have not yet seen the final season, not yet available here, but I am introducing it to a friend of mine, having a day of watching 6-10 episodes each month.

As soon as I can get my hands on a DVD/BluRay season 5 set playable here I will get to it.

Looking forward to your friend's reaction to B5. Your revised list is not bad at all, if you find that you *must* reduce it.

[alpha128]

When I used to try and get people hooked I usually asked them to give me 5 episodes, and it almost always worked! :-) While I understand your desire to give them what they need to move forward in the story, you might want to think about reducing the number.

OK. I reviewed this article (Babylon 5 condensed) again, and also looked at the A.V. Club grades for each episode on my initial list. This brings me to the following list of 12 out of 22 episodes (55%). What do you all think of this?

Season One ("Signs and Portents") - REVISED LIST

# Title Grade
1 Midnight on the Firing Line B
5 The Parliament of Dreams B+
6 Mind War B+
8 And The Sky Full Of Stars B+
12 By Any Means Necessary A-
13 Signs and Portents B
17 Legacies B-
18 A Voice in the Wilderness part 1 B+
19 A Voice in the Wilderness part 2 A-
20 Babylon Squared A
21 The Quality of Mercy B
22 Chrysalis A

[WorkerCaste]

When I used to try and get people hooked I usually asked them to give me 5 episodes, and it almost always worked! :-) While I understand your desire to give them what they need to move forward in the story, you might want to think about reducing the number. Get them hooked first, then go back and fill in the story elements needed for later. I did usually try to get them to do consecutive episodes.

You have more of a challenge than many since your friends isn't a Sci-Fi fan. Sadly, you're also facing a challenge due to the standards in production values today. People expect a lot more, especially lacking a hi-res version.

I'd be tempted to focus on the human stories where SF is more back ground. I was thinking about Survivors through Legacies with maybe Parliament of Dreams to kick it off as more of an introduction to who's who.

At any rate, just some thoughts.

[alpha128]

I really hope your friends enjoy B5. It's a gem of a show, but few people are willing to put in the effort initially.

Agreed. Hence, my desire to condense the first season.

Gotta admit, I started out watching Person of Interest as a 'switch brain off' show, and boy did it surprise me in the later seasons. Was very attached to the cast when it concluded. If you have any thoughts when you finish up with that, there's a thread here.

Thanks for the link. I didn't realize there was a POI thread on this board. I know how POI ends and posted some comments there.

[Ubik]

The only later reference I can recall is when they blow up the Markab jumpgate to destroy a Shadow vessel.

We've been watching "Person of Interest" (a more contemporary series in every sense) and we have only two episodes to go. After that, I hope it will be "Midnight on the Firing Line".

P.S. Although I do own "The Gathering", I don't want to start with that. I'm sure the cast changes and makeup changes from pilot to series would confuse them. I'll give them a little recap. And actually there's a nice little recap in "The War Prayer", which is one of the reasons it's on my list.

I really hope your friends enjoy B5. It's a gem of a show, but few people are willing to put in the effort initially, and the overall quality increase in modern TV with story arcs being the norm makes it harder to explain just how different B5 was. Of course, you can put it into context, but I have to concede that the 'novel for TV' is the norm now.

Gotta admit, I started out watching Person of Interest as a 'switch brain off' show, and boy did it surprise me in the later seasons. Was very attached to the cast when it concluded. If you have any thoughts when you finish up with that, there's a thread here.

[alpha128]

"Confessions and Lamentations" is definitely a 'BIGGER PICTURE' episode, though I will say a complaint I have about what happens in that episode is that it isn't referenced enough in later episodes.

The only later reference I can recall is when they blow up the Markab jumpgate to destroy a Shadow vessel.

Personal note: I love talking about this stuff. Keep me posted when you start this screening alpha128. I just started a re-watch on the 24TH, but I am not too far in.

We've been watching "Person of Interest" (a more contemporary series in every sense) and we have only two episodes to go. After that, I hope it will be "Midnight on the Firing Line".

P.S. Although I do own "The Gathering", I don't want to start with that. I'm sure the cast changes and makeup changes from pilot to series would confuse them. I'll give them a little recap. And actually there's a nice little recap in "The War Prayer", which is one of the reasons it's on my list.

[Looney]

Perhaps I prefer it because the stakes are higher in "Confessions" - our regular characters, not to mention an entire species, are threatened with death. In "Believers" it's just Shon who is fighting for his life.

Very true. All and all "Believers" is mostly about character development, so really it is just important with regard to knowing where the characters are coming from. "Confessions and Lamentations" is definitely a 'BIGGER PICTURE' episode, though I will say a complaint I have about what happens in that episode is that it isn't referenced enough in later episodes. It was such a big event there should have been more mentions of it in episodes down the road, i.e. Markab refugees and setting up a safe place for survivors to try save what was left, because they do reference that there are likely isolated pockets on other planets so all hope was not lost.

Personal note: I love talking about this stuff. Keep me posted when you start this screening alpha128. I just started a re-watch on the 24TH, but I am not too far in.