B5 4:3 version

[flobo]

Is the original B5 in 4/3 with the full size cgi available somewhere ?

I've only ever seen the 16/9 dvd version with cropped cgi and thought i'd be fun to one day try the original (From the crusade DVDs, i can already say that the cgi looks much better that way).

[Ubik]

I think that the laser discs has this? Could be totally wrong.

Triple F is normally good at answering these more technical questions.

[JasonDavis]

The Laserdiscs and the VHS tapes were both 4:3, but the series was never completely released in either format in the US.

The full VHS run might have been released in the UK, but those would have the 4% PAL speedup, and thus would be slightly compromised in a different way.

[flobo]

I'll think i'll look for the laserdisks eventually ( in the long run since i don't either have the space to store that much more stuff nor the player atm).

As for the speedup, PAL DVD are the same, but since i've always used my pc for playback, i manually correct the speed and pitch with reclock for each US show/movie on dvd.

Thanksfully nowaday bluray are 24p everywhere, so for new stuff, you don't have to deal with speedup).


Speaking about this, it makes me wonder, going back to the B5 DVD, in that situation, are the pal dvd are the best source for the live action parts of the show since it's 576p and not 480p ?

[JoeD80]

The 4:3 episodes are available on vudu streaming (with the exception of 5 episodes which are the same as the DVD). However, it might only work in the US. I downloaded them all from there. The only episodes that are wide-screen in this collection are:

The Gathering (from the sci-fi fake wide airing)
TKO
Severed Dreams
The Paragon of Animals
Sleeping in Light

[sense8ional]

VUDU has the best 4:3 versions but sadly only available for US customers. The image is not up to DVD quality but certainly better than the laserdiscs (which weren't completed anyway) and VHS.

PAL DVDs have a little sharper live action parts.
NTSC DVDs have much smoother CGI (60i, as produced, rather than the 60i -> 48i -> 50i conversion PAL had to go through). The framing of the CGI also seems more carefully done.

Both have the CGI look shockingly bad due to inexplicable decisions made during its cropping and upscaling. It can look surprisingly nice for its age if you reverse the process and do it correctly, or watch the 4:3 VUDU versions.

Both PAL and NTSC DVDs during Season 1 have a few live action/CGI shots uncropped but stretched to fit the widescreen image (the characters appearing fatter than they should be). They were more careful to always crop those in later seasons.

^ Observations made by me mostly while comparing Season 1, Disc 1 of NTSC and PAL and also doing short encoding tests on both, rather than just repeating what I've read online. Which, yes, it means I've finally started watching Babylon 5.. I'm early in Season 4 currently.

[JasonDavis]

The Gathering (from the sci-fi fake wide airing)

What a bizarre oddity to find preserved by Vudu; next you'll tell me there's some place I can watch the season two episodes with 16:9 mattes slapped on the 4:3, as originally screened on SciFi.

[Ubik]

I'll think i'll look for the laserdisks eventually ( in the long run since i don't either have the space to store that much more stuff nor the player atm).

As for the speedup, PAL DVD are the same, but since i've always used my pc for playback, i manually correct the speed and pitch with reclock for each US show/movie on dvd.

Thanksfully nowaday bluray are 24p everywhere, so for new stuff, you don't have to deal with speedup).


Speaking about this, it makes me wonder, going back to the B5 DVD, in that situation, are the pal dvd are the best source for the live action parts of the show since it's 576p and not 480p ?

I think only two seasons made it to laserdisc, so perhaps a fruitless effort. I'd just find the best digital version available. Some kind soul may have ripped the laserdiscs to a digital format if you look hard enough.

Of course, it would be lovely to have a definitive version a la Star Trek, but I must admit I am no longer very interested in owning physical media for film and TV stuff.

[flobo]

I wish vudu was available here so i could get them easily.

VUDU has the best 4:3 versions but sadly only available for US customers. The image is not up to DVD quality but certainly better than the laserdiscs (which weren't completed anyway) and VHS.

PAL DVDs have a little sharper live action parts.
NTSC DVDs have much smoother CGI (60i, as produced, rather than the 60i -> 48i -> 50i conversion PAL had to go through). The framing of the CGI also seems more carefully done.

Both have the CGI look shockingly bad due to inexplicable decisions made during its cropping and upscaling. It can look surprisingly nice for its age if you reverse the process and do it correctly, or watch the 4:3 VUDU versions.

Both PAL and NTSC DVDs during Season 1 have a few live action/CGI shots uncropped but stretched to fit the widescreen image (the characters appearing fatter than they should be). They were more careful to always crop those in later seasons.

^ Observations made by me mostly while comparing Season 1, Disc 1 of NTSC and PAL and also doing short encoding tests on both, rather than just repeating what I've read online. Which, yes, it means I've finally started watching Babylon 5.. I'm early in Season 4 currently.

How are composite shot handled then ? I mean, it's 24p live action with 60i cgi, is it just 3:2 pulldown ?

In that case, that means those shot can't be smooth no matter what you do.

I think only two seasons made it to laserdisc, so perhaps a fruitless effort. I'd just find the best digital version available. Some kind soul may have ripped the laserdiscs to a digital format if you look hard enough.

Of course, it would be lovely to have a definitive version a la Star Trek, but I must admit I am no longer very interested in owning physical media for film and TV stuff.

Indeed, it'd be really great, back then, i bought all the TNG bluray hoping for DS9 to follow but that never happened .

So, if DS9 didn't happen, B5 has no chance whatsoever.

Even if i know it won't happen either, i'd gladly take a reconstructed version with the live action part in 24p 16/9 and the composite/cgi shots in 60i 4/3.
Of course, it couldn't be done on DVDs but with a modern video container, that'd be perfectly doable (but time-consuming).

[sense8ional]

How are composite shot handled then ? I mean, it's 24p live action with 60i cgi, is it just 3:2 pulldown ?

In that case, that means those shot can't be smooth no matter what you do.

I remember frame stepping through the scene of Sinclair preparing for the drop inside his Starfury in ep1 and a CGI rail retracting or something exhibited the 3:2 pattern. Other than that, how exactly were the two framerates reconciled and stored, I don't know, because the first episodes were light on composites anyway and I gave up on the DVDs by the second episode for "unofficial" encodes with better treatment of the CGI.

[Ubik]

Observations made by me mostly while comparing Season 1, Disc 1 of NTSC and PAL and also doing short encoding tests on both, rather than just repeating what I've read online. Which, yes, it means I've finally started watching Babylon 5.. I'm early in Season 4 currently.

Wow, where on earth did you find the time to do this? Have you worked in video editing / production, as it seems you have an excellent knowledge. Or are you just a bit of a A/V enthusiast?!

Would love to hear your thoughts on B5 and how JMS has grown as a writer since then. Sense8 definitely represents a step up in terms of dialogue and less 'talking heads exposition'.

[sense8ional]

Like I said I did the comparisons mostly concerning the first disc, so yeah, no time for far more than that. I have an okay understanding of some technical things, that's all.

Sense8 is definitely an evolution in writing it feels more natural.

Babylon 5 is pretty cool, I imagine it would be super cool to watch back in the day, today everything feels a bit small scale but still good. The war against the Shadows has been anything but grand so far and I don't just mean it in the "where are the cool battles" sense, I mean it's not in the foreground so there isn't much tension. Beginning with Season 2 there aren't any more "bad" episodes (that's good), on the other hand in later seasons seeing what happened or actually didn't happen with Talia, Warren and Na'Toth is truly perplexing. (I'm well aware of the various reasons the characters weren't used/were let go but seeing it with your own eyes is a different thing).

By far what I think the show did best so far was the whole Earth / Nightwatch plot. That felt oddly relevant today and very frightening to be honest. Now that was tense, unlike the Shadows.

Oh and my favorite episode is Sic Transit Vir so far. I love Vir.

Well, that's all. Don't spoil me future stuff please