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  • #1

    The Centauri

    I watched Signs and Portents last night with JMS' commertary and he said something that struck me as odd.

    He was talking about the Centauri and how they were old style, had seers and were monothistic. That gave me quite a surprise since in the shows Vir mentions that there are either 49 or 50 Centauri gods (not to mention Londo talking about some of them in The Parliament of Dreams )

    I replayed it a few times to see if I didn't hear correctly, but it always sounds like monotheisitc.

    Did I miss something?
    Did The Great Maker misspeaK?
    ---
    Co-host of The Second Time Around podcast
    www.benedictfamily.org/podcast
    Tags: None
  • #2
    <<(not to mention Londo talking about some of them in The Parliament of Dreams )>>

    And the number came from Chrysalis.

    Londo: Vir, how many gods do we have in our pantheon now?

    Maybe he said "polytheistic." I am at work so I cannot check on it right now.
    Recently, there was a reckoning. It occurred on November 4, 2014 across the United States. Voters, recognizing the failures of the current leadership and fearing their unchecked abuses of power, elected another party as the new majority. This is a first step toward preventing more damage and undoing some of the damage already done. Hopefully, this is as much as will be required.

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    • #3
      Monotheistic?

      Although the Centauri have a great pantheon of gods and goddesses, there are a few things to consider.

      What do the Centauri say when they are scared or startled? Great Maker! That means they acknowledge ONE creator.

      Many of the Centauri gods are former emperors.

      Could it be that the Centauri believe in one Creator, and many lesser deities?

      Things that make you go "Hmmmmmm...."
      "Ivanova is God!"

      Comment

      • #4
        Originally posted by Z'ha'dumDweller
        Maybe he said "polytheistic." I am at work so I cannot check on it right now.
        That is why I kept replaying that part to see if I he said polytheistic, I couldn't tell. I guess that is the result of listening to music too loudly during my misspent youth.
        ---
        Co-host of The Second Time Around podcast
        www.benedictfamily.org/podcast

        Comment

        • #5
          Re: Monotheistic?

          Originally posted by SpooRancher
          Although the Centauri have a great pantheon of gods and goddesses, there are a few things to consider.

          What do the Centauri say when they are scared or startled? Great Maker! That means they acknowledge ONE creator.

          Many of the Centauri gods are former emperors.

          Could it be that the Centauri believe in one Creator, and many lesser deities?

          Things that make you go "Hmmmmmm...."
          I think you've got something there. The Great Maker seems to be the #1 god to the Centauri although they've certainly got a whole bunch of lesser gods.

          Still, there are other examples of JMS misspeaking on the DVD commentaries so perhaps we should go with Occam's Razor.

          Jan
          "As empathy spreads, civilization spreads. As empathy contracts, civilization contracts...as we're seeing now.

          Comment

          • #6
            Re: Re: Monotheistic?

            Originally posted by Jan

            Still, there are other examples of JMS misspeaking on the DVD commentaries so perhaps we should go with Occam's Razor.

            Jan
            But that takes the fun out it it...
            ---
            Co-host of The Second Time Around podcast
            www.benedictfamily.org/podcast

            Comment

            • #7
              Re: Re: Re: Monotheistic?

              Originally posted by thebaron
              But that takes the fun out it it...
              Okay, I gotta ask...Occam's Razor?
              Recently, there was a reckoning. It occurred on November 4, 2014 across the United States. Voters, recognizing the failures of the current leadership and fearing their unchecked abuses of power, elected another party as the new majority. This is a first step toward preventing more damage and undoing some of the damage already done. Hopefully, this is as much as will be required.

              Comment

              • #8
                Re: Re: Re: Re: Monotheistic?

                Originally posted by Z'ha'dumDweller
                Okay, I gotta ask...Occam's Razor?
                To paraphrase "the simplest answer is the correct answer"
                ---
                Co-host of The Second Time Around podcast
                www.benedictfamily.org/podcast

                Comment

                • #9
                  Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Monotheistic?

                  Originally posted by thebaron
                  To paraphrase "the simplest answer is the correct answer"
                  Just found it via google. We learn something every day.
                  Recently, there was a reckoning. It occurred on November 4, 2014 across the United States. Voters, recognizing the failures of the current leadership and fearing their unchecked abuses of power, elected another party as the new majority. This is a first step toward preventing more damage and undoing some of the damage already done. Hopefully, this is as much as will be required.

                  Comment

                  • #10
                    Some religions consider the many gods and goddesses in their pantheon to be simply aspects of the one over-God, as it were. With the Centauri, certainly the Great Maker is their chief God.

                    Amy

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                    • #11
                      Also, there are gods. Then there is God.

                      The Centauri, in general, may have used god (lower case) the same way we use Saint .

                      IOW, they had about 50 gods.
                      And ONE Great Maker.

                      Comment

                      • #12
                        Originally posted by bakana
                        Also, there are gods. Then there is God.

                        The Centauri, in general, may have used god (lower case) the same way we use Saint .

                        IOW, they had about 50 gods.
                        And ONE Great Maker.
                        I don't get the impression that this is quite true (in that saints don't have powers except the power to persuade the deity) but it is close enough to work for me. My feeling is that the minor dieties of the Centauri had specific minor powers but that the Great maker had overall power. In essence, praying to Li (?) would be like praying to whatever saint is the patron saint of doorways (if there was such).
                        I believe that when we leave a place, part of it goes with us and part of us remains. Go anywhere in the station, when it is quiet, and just listen. After a while, you will hear the echoes of all our conversations, every thought and word we've exchanged. Long after we are gone .. our voices will linger in these walls for as long as this place remains. But I will admit .. that the part of me that is going .. will very much miss the part of you that is staying.

                        Comment

                        • #13
                          An analogy:
                          Zeus was the God, ruling over all others.
                          The other gods were his children, with powers and characteristics related to certain aspects of nature.

                          About the Centauri: IIRC they elevated some past emperors to godhood (cf. Cartagia's intentions, also contrast to the Roman Empire upon which JMS modelled them where some emperors declared themselves gods), I'd venture that the others were minor deities with respect to the Great Maker.

                          I agree with grumbler, Saints are only intermediates to God. Sort of like asking your priest, or some other pious person you consider to be more in favor with God, to pray for you.
                          Such... is the respect paid to science that the most absurd opinions may become current, provided they are expressed in language, the sound of which recalls some well-known scientific phrase
                          James Clerk Maxwell (1831-79)

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                          • #14
                            I'd have to say that it just seems like a slip on JMS's part. At various times there have been references to the Great Maker, to Centauri gods, and to Centauri household gods. In some of his posts, JMS refers to a pantheon of gods.

                            http://jmsnews.com/msg.aspx?id=1-11734
                            http://jmsnews.com/msg.aspx?id=1-15929

                            Even if you posit that the gods are elvated emperors, and that the GReat Maker is the chief among the gods, that's still polytheistic. I haven't heard the commentary, but if if there wasn't a lot of context or discussion pertaining to monotheism, it was probably just a slip of the tongue. I certainly make them often enough myself!
                            "That was the law, as set down by Valen. Three castes: worker, religious, warrior."

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by WorkerCaste
                              I'd have to say that it just seems like a slip on JMS's part.
                              Oh, I agree absolutely that he said monotheistic when he meant polytheistic (and "old style" fits in better with poltheism from the western standpoint), but one of the rules of the "canon" game is that you have to account for what he says, not for what you know he meant!
                              I believe that when we leave a place, part of it goes with us and part of us remains. Go anywhere in the station, when it is quiet, and just listen. After a while, you will hear the echoes of all our conversations, every thought and word we've exchanged. Long after we are gone .. our voices will linger in these walls for as long as this place remains. But I will admit .. that the part of me that is going .. will very much miss the part of you that is staying.

                              Comment

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