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  • #31
    Lets continue our SW discussion here http://jmsnews.net/forums/showthread...=&threadid=272

    Sleeping in Light-----Darnit! Shut the Window.

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    • #32
      Whoa, whoa!

      Hold yer horses! I was not "showing off" anything.

      I merely said that I had... "acquired" rips of the DVDs and was looking for ENGLISH subtitles so I could TRANSLATE them into estonian.

      The story goes like this.

      Once upon a time, a terrestrial TV channel here bought and translated Babylon 5. It was pretty popular, even though the TV channel now claims that it was a failure. Then the DVDs were released, but there were no estonian subtitles on them.

      So I contacted that TV channel about them releasing the subtitles. They said that they had released subs to fans before for a small fee, so I asked them what it was. They told me it would be 200kr per episode. Which is about twice as much as my student loans this year, so no go.

      I'm a B5 fan. I'm trying to get others around me interested in the show as well. They do not speak english as well as I do, so I've decided to translate the entire five seasons and the movies on my own.

      Now, had I the money to purchase the DVDs, I could have grabbed the subtitles off there and translated those. Seeing as I don't have that much money, I opted for a broadband discount and added Babylon 5 DVDs on top of my "stuff to buy when I get a job" list.

      After that, I posted here asking for someone to send me the subtitles for the hearing-impaired. So that I could get working on the translation.

      So call me a pirate, if you must. I'm still doing this so that estonian fans that get the DVDs or use the broadband discount can enjoy the show in their own native language.

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by elver
        So call me a pirate, if you must. I'm still doing this so that estonian fans that get the DVDs or use the broadband discount can enjoy the show in their own native language.
        Elver, it's really quite simple. "Pirate" is a euphemism for thief. "Broadband discount" is a euphemism for stolen. It's simply not going to be encouraged here no matter how much you promote B5.

        Perhaps you could contact the companies who did the subtitles in the first place.

        Jan
        "As empathy spreads, civilization spreads. As empathy contracts, civilization contracts...as we're seeing now.

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        • #34
          Originally posted by Jan
          Elver, it's really quite simple. "Pirate" is a euphemism for thief. "Broadband discount" is a euphemism for stolen. It's simply not going to be encouraged here no matter how much you promote B5.

          Perhaps you could contact the companies who did the subtitles in the first place.

          Jan
          I don't know if you bothered to read my last post or not. It seems that you didn't. As I said, I did contact the company that did the estonian translation and they were willing to sell it to me, but the price they asked was bigger than any fan around here could hope to pay. So now I am translating it myself. In fact, I just finished with the first episode.

          Also, don't mix thievery with copyright infringement. They are VERY different things. I'm not trying to get anyone here to encourage or endorse anything. I'm merely stating the fact that you misrepresented my original post.

          Originally posted by Jan
          From what I understand, Amy, the poster was soliciting more pirated stuff after telling that s/he'd downloaded the entire series.
          I was simply asking for help to provide an estonian translation for everyone, including those that DO own the official DVDs.

          A noble cause, wouldn't you agree? If anything, it will only increase the DVD sales. Where's the harm in that?

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          • #35
            Originally posted by elver
            I don't know if you bothered to read my last post or not. It seems that you didn't. As I said, I did contact the company that did the estonian translation and they were willing to sell it to me, but the price they asked was bigger than any fan around here could hope to pay. So now I am translating it myself. In fact, I just finished with the first episode.
            Sorry, you're right. I bypassed that point. The fact that you can't afford something doesn't give you a right to take it without permission, however. Even if you have some vague intent to buy a legitimate copy in the future.

            Also, don't mix thievery with copyright infringement. They are VERY different things.
            The end result of your so-called 'broadband discount' is that you have possession of something that doesn't belong to you. Copyright infringement includes many things and that's part of it.

            I'm merely stating the fact that you misrepresented my original post.
            That would be because my co-moderator judged that the post should be removed. I never saw the original post which is why I said that it was "my understanding". What was misrepresented? By your own admission, you did do those things whether you like my phrasing or not.

            A noble cause, wouldn't you agree? If anything, it will only increase the DVD sales. Where's the harm in that?
            It doesn't matter what your opinion of harm is. Nor mine or Ranger1's or anybody elses. It doesn't matter how noble your aims are. We will not allow solicitation of copyrighted materials via any means other than purchase. It's that simple.

            And lest you think that there's no way you could have gotten information legitimately...back before the DVDs were even officially announced, a lady came to the r.a.s.t.b5.m. and asked for help because her company was doing closed captioning for them and there were words or passages she was unsure of. Because of my script collection (*all* legit set-used or sold via the Fan Club), I offered to help with any passages she needed. I never had to, though, because JMS himself saw the post and put her in touch with the people she should to talk to at WB.

            Have you asked fellow Estonian speaking fans to help you with the expense?

            I'll even make you the same offer I made her. If there are sometimes words or passages that you're not sure of, I'll be happy to look them up for you.

            Jan
            "As empathy spreads, civilization spreads. As empathy contracts, civilization contracts...as we're seeing now.

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            • #36
              There are some Estonian fans of Babylon 5 over at www.b5tv.com they may be able to give you a few pointers.
              Andrew Swallow

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              • #37
                Jan and Capt Montoya are right with their descriptions of the difference between copyright and trademark, with one exception. Capt Montoya said:

                >>for something to be subject to copyright it has to be an original work of a certain length, and what is protected is the presentation, but not the information<<

                It depends on the information. For instance, a calendar of major holidays around the world is public information, but someone's compilation of it in a particular format with particular artwork _can_ be copyrighted; so in that instance, Capt Montoya would be correct. But sometimes the author of a copyrighted work is also the original creator of the information therein. Like, oh, say...Babylon 5. Information about the various species and their homeworlds is _information_ contained within a television presentation, but the information is still protected by copyright because it's all an original idea.

                And elver, copyright infringement _is_ thievery; the reason I think that people have trouble comprehending/accepting that is because intellectual property is intangible.

                Amy

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                • #38
                  Here's a suggestion that might get the project itself a bit further along:
                  Find some Estonian students who are looking for opportunities to improve their English.
                  Get them together with as many Estonian B5 fans as possible.
                  Start a "Translate B5" project.

                  Legally, since you CAN purchase the series minus the subtitles.

                  There is even the prospect that, if you do a good job, you could eventually try to sell the translation to Warner.
                  Who knows, by the time you finish, word of mouth (or even Publicity if you could get news coverage of the feat) might have created an even Bigger potential B5 audience in Estonia.

                  Personally, I'd bet on B5 hooking any English students who get a good look at it.

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                  • #39
                    The idea is good.

                    However, I'm a real nitpicker and perfectionist when it comes to stuff I love. So I dunno about getting others involved in translating it. Hell, I even have a habit of sometimes going over some of my old essays that I haven't shown anyone else and making little changes here and there.

                    As someone said, art is never finished, only abandoned.

                    Also, I have no intention of selling it. There's really noone to sell it to, even. I doubt that WB would be interested and there exists a translation already. (I finally managed to get a few more episode translations from the company that did it originally here and they're just plain horrible... I wonder why I didn't see them as such a few years ago.)

                    You can't translate art and hope for it to have the same effect. Just as you can't describe a painting to a blind man and expect him to enjoy it as much as you do.

                    But I'm getting there, slowly

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