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  • Jason Ironheart and others

    Was it ever said what happened to Jason Ironheart? I'm not a huge fan like most people here (I do have the trilogies and a few other books, heh, though I've yet to read the last trilogy) and it's been years since I saw the show, so my memory of it is a bit vague.

    There was also some alien that was travelling to Z'ha'dum inside a human cryopod or something similar. He was killed on B5, but was there anything else said about his kind? Or was he mentioned?

    Come to think of it, there were several aliens and other characters that made interesting appearances in B5 whom I'd love to know more about.

    With any other sci-fi show, these'd just be random appearances and that's that -- those universes are usually very shallow and whatever logic holes appear are usually filled with technobabble that makes decent people groan. But B5 is consistent, or at least seems to be. Even the characters that appear in a single filler episode that isn't related to the arc have a purpose of some kind.

    Hmm... you know, these would make great books

    P.S: Is it just me or was The Shadow Within a bit inconsistent in style? I mean, the beginning seemed a bit too formulaic and childish -- it felt like reading someone's literature class exercises --, but once the author opened up, it was great. Oh and just so you wouldn't think I don't know anything about writing, then see Cival Onion on my homepage at http://math.ut.ee/~elver/

  • #2
    Re: Jason Ironheart and others

    Originally posted by elver
    Was it ever said what happened to Jason Ironheart? I'm not a huge fan like most people here (I do have the trilogies and a few other books, heh, though I've yet to read the last trilogy) and it's been years since I saw the show, so my memory of it is a bit vague.
    JMS has this to say about Jason Ironheart, and I wholeheartedly agree with him.

    IMHO, Ironheart was a BIG mistake.

    There was also some alien that was travelling to Z'ha'dum inside a human cryopod or something similar. He was killed on B5, but was there anything else said about his kind? Or was he mentioned?
    No more was said of his (her?) kind and it was never mentioned again.

    Come to think of it, there were several aliens and other characters that made interesting appearances in B5 whom I'd love to know more about.
    I agree!

    With any other sci-fi show, these'd just be random appearances and that's that -- those universes are usually very shallow and whatever logic holes appear are usually filled with technobabble that makes decent people groan. But B5 is consistent, or at least seems to be. Even the characters that appear in a single filler episode that isn't related to the arc have a purpose of some kind.
    Yes, usually. But sometimes, most often from the first two seasons, one-off characters/creatures were used to no better effect than in certain other series.

    All IMHO, of course.

    /IamS
    Interstellar Alliance - Sweden's largest Babylon 5-club
    http://www.babcon.org/

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    • #3
      Re: Jason Ironheart and others

      Originally posted by elver
      There was also some alien that was travelling to Z'ha'dum inside a human cryopod or something similar. He was killed on B5, but was there anything else said about his kind? Or was he mentioned?
      Welcome to the discussion, elver.

      As far as the alien mentioned above, it was a "Soldier of Darkness" being called from its hiding place back into service with the Shadows, so it can be lumped together with the other Shadow servents, but the references to any Shadow servents other than the Drakh were pretty vague. They probably remained around causing problems, but at a guess, they weren't very numerous. If they had been, there probably would've been more reports like Amis' about how they were staying alive and hidden waiting for the call.
      "That was the law, as set down by Valen. Three castes: worker, religious, warrior."

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      • #4
        Irohheart said he'd be back this way in a million years or so. Probably around the time of the Vorlon-ish human in Deconstruction. Makes one wonder if there was any contact between JI and the humans by that time.
        "The cat is not evil for killing the rat, nor is the rat evil for stealing the grain. Each acts according to its nature." Master Po - Kung Fu:TOS

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        • #5
          Ironheart and Deconstruction make for a nice idea. Though I bet humans got vorlon-level tech before that.

          Hm. JMS has said before that the first theatrical movie based on B5 would be about the telepath war. Personally I feel the telepaths are the most boring aspect of the B5 universe, but then again, that's just my humble opinion. The Psi Corps trilogy was enjoyable, though, but I'm not sure if I'd enjoy a whole movie about them.

          Anyway, since the thing is called The Memory of Shadows, we can probably expect to see a lot of their former servants. Which is good

          Or if JMS puts the two together, there might be a telepath war over leftover shadow tech. Hm. That'd be kinda interesting.

          Aaaanyway, coming back to the topic or at least slightly closer to it, was it in Deconstruction that the humans were living on the Vorlon homeworld? Why? I mean, all the natural resources must have been mined eons ago by the vorlons anyway. And wouldn't their sun go nova as well? If not, then they must possess some tech to stop suns from going nova. In that case, why didn't humans use it to stop Sol from blowing up?

          And as a side note... Anyone played the B5 CCG and willing to give a few tips to someone planning on getting a deck and starting to play? Like which deck to choose and why? And what to look out for?

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          • #6
            Yeah, that was too bad about Jason Ironheart. He was a decent, kind, intelligent character and its a shame we never saw him again.

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            • #7
              Welcome elver...good point about Sol going nova vs the Vorlon star. We are only talking about a million years, though, and that isn't much in solar years (for all stars).

              Everybody keeps skirting around the Technomages (their story having been told), but they are leftover shadow Tech also, and they may just make it to this movie.
              John Brittain
              2blueshoes.com for free blues downloads

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              • #8
                Originally posted by jahkneebee
                Welcome elver...good point about Sol going nova vs the Vorlon star. We are only talking about a million years, though, and that isn't much in solar years (for all stars).
                Sol was deliberately destroyed.

                Everybody keeps skirting around the Technomages (their story having been told), but they are leftover shadow Tech also, and they may just make it to this movie.
                The books were very careful to ensure that the Telepaths and Technomages had similar powers. This has all the signs of JMS setting up a fair fight between the two.
                Andrew Swallow

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                • #9
                  I can't see the reason for the two to fight. The Technomages, for the most part are content to do nothing.

                  Although the Shadow War was over, the Teep War and the Drakh War happened afterwards. Maybe the TMs might think the Drakh might have some hold over them. For such an interesting and powerful group of people, most of them seem quite content to find a hole to hide in and pull a rock over the top of it.

                  I assume from everything we have seen and heard, we don't know when the Drakh war ended, just that it was over by the time of Sleeping in Light
                  Last edited by NotKosh; 10-07-2004, 01:17 PM.
                  "I am not a number! I am a free man!"

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by NotKosh
                    I assume from everything we have seen and heard, we don't know when the Drakh war ended, just that it was over by the time of Sleeping in Light
                    My memory is vague but I think it was over by the time the Centauri Trilogy was.

                    Jan
                    "As empathy spreads, civilization spreads. As empathy contracts, civilization contracts...as we're seeing now.

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                    • #11
                      Ironheart became too powerful and advanced to coexist with contemporary humans, he vanished to reappear a million years ahead

                      But of course what really happened to Ironheart was that JMS needed a deus ex machina to enhance Talia, since the Lyta/Vorlon storyline had to be dropped (only to be picked up again when circumstances made it possible). But JMS also managed to use it as a hint for the transcendence of humanity to First-One-ness after a million years, maybe the only hint that we would have had if TNT had not picked up season 5 and Deconstruction of Falling Stars had not happened...
                      The ways in which JMS took advantage of serendipity to expand the story are fascinating.

                      Aaaanyway, coming back to the topic or at least slightly closer to it, was it in Deconstruction that the humans were living on the Vorlon homeworld? Why? I mean, all the natural resources must have been mined eons ago by the vorlons anyway. And wouldn't their sun go nova as well? If not, then they must possess some tech to stop suns from going nova. In that case, why didn't humans use it to stop Sol from blowing up?
                      Sol going nova was due to interference by the enemies of the Human and Minbari. Possibly just as they took the place of the Vorlons, the Drakh and co. (or someone else) took the role of the Shadows.
                      If humans were that powerful they would have prevented or reversed the tampering in the first place.
                      I've always assumed the destruction of sol was an act of vengeance, but I don't think the series makes that an irrefutable pont.
                      Maybe it was an irreversible process once started, deconstruction is always easier than construction, the second law of thermodynamics sez' so.

                      Humans went to the Vorlon homeworld because they were finally at that development level. At that level I doubt they need much natural resources or they can always get them from other planets...
                      And of course you're assuming that technological development leads to irreversible depletion of natural resources. But even human technological development could switch into reusing and recycling instead of consumption, an alien culture may have actually started with a reuse-recycle-save strategy in the first place. Then there's of course the exploration of space opening up other sources of materials... if we humans could exploit the asteroid belt is likely that all mines on Earth could be closed.
                      Such... is the respect paid to science that the most absurd opinions may become current, provided they are expressed in language, the sound of which recalls some well-known scientific phrase
                      James Clerk Maxwell (1831-79)

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                      • #12
                        Then there's of course the exploration of space opening up other sources of materials... if we humans could exploit the asteroid belt is likely that all mines on Earth could be closed.
                        Assuming that exploiting asteroids is cheaper than exploiting human labor here on earth....

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                        • #13
                          Also, it's quite possible that the Gold Mine of the Future might be today's landfills.

                          We're burying a lot of refined metals, glass and plastics in our garbage dumps.
                          A couple hundred years from now, I can see the value of the stuff we are burying skyrocketing.

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                          • #14
                            Sol going nova was due to interference by the enemies of the Human and Minbari.
                            Do we really know this though?

                            Either the human remaining on Earth or the computer he was talking to mentioned something about a celebration. Would they really be all that concerned with a celebration if their enemies were blowing up the sun?

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                            • #15
                              I'm with vacantlook. I don't recall ever hearing anything about the destruction of Sol being an aggressive action by an outside force. Indeed, from all evidence, it seems that it was an inside job.

                              Amy

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