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  • I didn't really enjoy The Changeling. Do I have to leave the cult now?

    In a related story ...

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    • Originally posted by sarthaz View Post
      I didn't really enjoy The Changeling. Do I have to leave the cult now?

      In a related story ...

      Differences of opinion do not a troll make. Yeah, we get tired of the same old, 'cult of JMS' accusations but it still just amounts to a difference of opinion. But really, a bunch of people hanging out on a site called JMS News *not* being fairly rabid fans? Pretty silly when you think of it.

      I can see where Changeling (no The) might not be to a lot of people's taste. It was certainly a very different format than most movies. There were things I didn't care for and things I loved about it. But I'd *better* not have to leave the 'cult'!!

      Jan
      "As empathy spreads, civilization spreads. As empathy contracts, civilization contracts...as we're seeing now.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Jan View Post
        Differences of opinion do not a troll make. Yeah, we get tired of the same old, 'cult of JMS' accusations but it still just amounts to a difference of opinion. But really, a bunch of people hanging out on a site called JMS News *not* being fairly rabid fans? Pretty silly when you think of it.

        I can see where Changeling (no The) might not be to a lot of people's taste. It was certainly a very different format than most movies. There were things I didn't care for and things I loved about it. But I'd *better* not have to leave the 'cult'!!

        Jan

        Changeling was one of those films that will stay with me for a lifetime. It was so emotional and shocking and dark and depressing (kind of like how I felt the first time I watched "Sleeping in Light") except without the shocking brutality. It was truly amazing! I could never watch it again, but yet I will never forget it.

        Comment


        • Thank you, Jan.

          I'm not trolling, honestly, I'm:

          - genuinely concerned with the prospect of reboot (I was just as concerned when this topic first came up 3 years ago, http://jmsnews.com/forums/showthread...7562#post67562);
          - worrying whether JMS hasn't squandered his talent on comics & sub-par movies (since most of his output during the last 15 years was, as Jan put it, not to my liking).

          The comic aspect is again entirely subjective, please don't take insult in that.
          Last edited by strashiLOL; 08-04-2014, 11:35 PM.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Jonas View Post
            Attempting to tell people that their creative output is not art (by some unexplained and indefensible definition of art)
            In my opinion, here we have to differentiate. In most cases, creative output doesn't equal art.

            We say "creativity" when the set of skills needed to complete the task is so complex and interwoven that it can no longer be subject to our analysis. As was mentioned before, the work of a research scientist or even a software engineer is extremely creative, yet their output can't be called "art".

            If a person is an artist and brings a brush to a sheet of paper, it doesn't automatically make everything that comes out of it "art", regardless of the required technique, overall complexity of what's being done, and the fact that the work itself may later on be subject to critique and even ridicule. I wholly understand the desire for one's creations to be accepted as "art", but truly, if a person wants to do art, let him do real paintings. This comes with a steep price though: a long span of near-poverty, life in a battered apartment etc.

            If, however, you want to apply your skills, make money and have fun in the process, you can go with mass entertainment. And there's nothing wrong with that, it's just work.

            Originally posted by Jonas View Post
            This is the same logic by which science fiction such as Babylon 5 has so often been considered not to be art
            Well I don't consider B5 to be art either. It's a brilliant and inspired, extremely well-written and well-acted TV show.
            Last edited by strashiLOL; 08-05-2014, 01:53 AM.

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            • Originally posted by strashiLOL View Post
              I'm not trolling, honestly, I'm:

              - genuinely concerned with the prospect of reboot (I was just as concerned when this topic first came up 3 years ago, http://jmsnews.com/forums/showthread...7562#post67562);
              - worrying whether JMS hasn't squandered his talent on comics & sub-par movies (since most of his output during the last 15 years was, as Jan put it, not to my liking).
              Well, to quote a certain Narn philosopher:

              Originally posted by G'Kar
              If you're going to be worried every time the universe doesn't make sense, you're going to be worried every moment of every day
              But really, given that you haven't even experienced most of JMS' output for the last 15 years, it's no wonder you're 'worried' and 'concerned'. Because just because you don't like what he's done doesn't mean that he's been squandering his talent. It's not as if that talent is some finite resource, either.

              And what we haven't even seen is a *major* portion of that output. Haven't seen Lensman. Haven't seen Forbidden Planet. Haven't seen Repent, Harlequin! Said the Ticktock Man (Oh, I want to see that so bad!). Haven't seen Voices from the Dead. Haven't seen And They Marched into Sunlight. Haven't seen Shattered Union. Haven't seen Vlad Dracula. In other words, you've only seen a small portion of what he's written in the past several years.

              Oh...and just so you know, there are quite a few comic artists who do actually paint their books. Do they qualify as artist in your definition now?

              Jan
              "As empathy spreads, civilization spreads. As empathy contracts, civilization contracts...as we're seeing now.

              Comment


              • OK, so you've just excluded Shakespeare, Dickens, as well as all the ancient Greek and Roman playwrights from your definition of art, so I think this aspect of the discussion is over for me.

                As for Babylon 5, a reboot may well be a mistake, but if it is, then it's up to JMS to make that mistake. It's not the choice I would make as a writer, but it's not my story.
                Jonas Kyratzes | Lands of Dream

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                • There is nothing new in this article other than it's from a non-science fiction news organization.

                  http://www.tvwise.co.uk/2014/08/baby...duction-start/
                  J. Michael Straczynski Announces

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                  • Whew! Okay, I've finally transcribed the relevant portions from my audio recording:

                    JMS recaps what’s coming up and then:

                    So we’ve been having a really, really good year at Studio JMS. And where that comes in handy – where it’s kind of important involves this (B5 logo comes on screen). So… Fact: When I made the Babylon 5 deal with Warner Bros. it was just short of indentured servitude. Financially, I’ll never seen a dime out of Babylon 5 ever. I have no problems with that; I knew what I was signing when I go into it, but I mention it to piss them off every once in a while. One thing that I was able to withhold was the film rights. I still own the movie rights to Babylon 5. I’ve been pushing Warner’s for the last…ever since the early cretaceous period…to “Let’s do a Babylon 5 movie – a proper big budget feature film.” And they’ve always dragged their feet [because] that’s what Warner Bros. does. They knew that they had the upper hand because I couldn’t take it to any other studio because these days all the studios want all the rights. So if I brought it to say, Sony or Fox, they’d want the TV rights which Warner Bros. controls. Warner Bros. will never give those rights up so we were always handcuffed by that.

                    Turns out, however, there’s one studio in Los Angeles…Distributors, by the way, don’t care about the TV rights. Distributors just [care] about the movie, they don’t care about the TV part. There’s one studio in town that doesn’t care if it doesn’t have the TV rights…that wants to see this movie made and will do it with or without Warner Bros. (Studio JMS logo comes on screen).
                    Here’s the plan: We’re going to have, through Studio JMS, at least two, maybe three TV series on the air next year. We’re going to have at least one or two movies going ahead. And we’ll use that to parlay serious investment in the studio. I’m not talking Kickstarter, I’m talking about one hundred million dollars, two hundred million dollars; we already have people who are lined up and interested in doing that.

                    So in 2015 I will write a Babylon 5 screenplay. I’ll be giving Warner Bros. the opportunity – if they want to step up, “Help yourself”. If they don’t, 2016: We make it. I’m not going to wait around for more of our cast members to die. So that’s the long term plan and those are the current updates on everything that’s going on right now.

                    Question from a fan: Asked if JMS might crowd-fund for a million of the investment so that fans can be part of it.

                    JMS: I would rather not. Here’s the reason why, though. I come from the ranks of fandom – I’m as rank as any of you. To me, much as I understand that Kickstarter and crowd-sourcing are a way for those outside to get involved with the process, show their appreciation for the process, I am resistant to that lure because it feels to me like taking advantage of the fans and I have a hard time with that on a moral and ethical basis. I’d rather have an investor come up and say “Here’s a check for a hundred million dollars” - which I would gladly take, by the way; if anyone in the audience happens to have one of those lying around, let me know – than to come to the fans and try to get it. Science fiction fans, and horror fans, to a degree, are the most exploited folks out there. “Line up, buy the merchandise, watch the show.” And I just see this money suck happening. So the answer is no.

                    Question from a fan: Are you considering a reboot to bring in new viewers or are you thinking of a continuation with the cast and crew from the original series.

                    JMS: It would have to be a reboot because it’s now been twenty-plus years since we started that show and some of the age ranges wouldn’t always work with some of the characters. So we’d have to move a few people around. But what I want to do is use the original cast one way or the other and move a few things around. I’d love to see Bruce as President of the Earth Alliance; that would be the perfect role for him.

                    I love playing around with the cast anyway. The one story that I wanted to do for the original B5 and they wouldn’t let me do it was, when Londo was injured and had this dream sequence, I wanted to have different actors play different roles. So Jerry Doyle would play Londo. Claudia Christian would play Delenn and Delenn (Mira) would play Ivanova. Peter Jurasik would play Jerry Doyle’s role. Andreas Katsulas would be the Commander of the Station and Bruce would be G’Kar. They said, “People would be way too confused.” JMS: “They won’t be confused, trust me! Listen, they have the intelligence for this.” It was the only story that they said “No, no, no, no and by the way, no.” The chance to [ ] play around with the cast and have some fun with it could be a good thing.
                    Any errors are mine. Feel free to share.

                    Jan
                    Last edited by Jan; 01-20-2016, 07:11 AM.
                    "As empathy spreads, civilization spreads. As empathy contracts, civilization contracts...as we're seeing now.

                    Comment


                    • Excellent, thanks Jan!


                      That would have been fun seeing G'Kar play Sheridan.

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                      • I love playing around with the cast anyway. The one story that I wanted to do for the original B5 and they wouldn’t let me do it was, when Londo was injured and had this dream sequence, I wanted to have different actors play different roles. So Jerry Doyle would play Londo. Claudia Christian would play Delenn and Delenn (Mira) would play Ivanova. Peter Jurasik would play Jerry Doyle’s role. Andreas Katsulas would be the Commander of the Station and Bruce would be G’Kar. They said, “People would be way too confused.” JMS: “They won’t be confused, trust me! Listen, they have the intelligence for this.” It was the only story that they said “No, no, no, no and by the way, no.” The chance to [ ] play around with the cast and have some fun with it could be a good thing
                        I would have liked to have seen that.
                        "And what kind of head of Security would I be if I let people like me know things that I'm not supposed to know? I mean, I know what I know because I have to know it. And if I don't have to know it, I don't tell me, and I don't let anyone else tell me either. " And I can give you reasonable assurances that the head of Security will not report you for doing so."
                        "Because you won't tell yourself about it?"

                        "I try never to get involved in my own life, too much trouble."

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                        • If the movie really is to be the kick-off for a reboot I would also like a story set right after mankind recovered from the cursed earth. Dunno, maybe the new prez could have a pic of Sheridan on the wall or watch some found holos of him giving wise advice to his successors every now and then or such.
                          Just as long as it isn't coming to finding the remains of Ivanova in some adrift leftover ship's transporter matrix...
                          What's up Drakh?

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                          • A lot of people of facebook don't believe the news or haven't heard anything yet. Jason Carter made a small announcement on his page and lots of people were shocked or were asking if it was real. One guy even said he'd heard it was a hoax.

                            I think it will take a couple years and at least a script or maybe even a trailer before fans believe its real and get excited.


                            Also, on the word "reboot". Didn't I hear JMS call "Midnight On the firing line" a reboot, as well? Because it had been a year since the gathering, and so many characters were new, but yet he still managed to connect the two seamlessly together.
                            Last edited by Delenn_of_Mir; 08-08-2014, 04:10 PM.

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                            • ^
                              He called "Midnight" a "second pilot"

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                              • Originally posted by Jan View Post
                                Whew! Okay, I've finally transcribed the relevant portions from my audio recording: ...

                                Any errors are mine. Feel free to share.

                                Jan
                                Jan, Thanks for the transcription. I came across this article just prior to seeing your transcription:

                                http://sciencefiction.com/2014/08/08...oot-babylon-5/

                                It Looks Like J. Michael Straczynski Is Working On A Film To Reboot

                                Posted a day ago by Stuart Conover

                                It has a transcript of jms's panel. I realized after comparing it with your transcript, they probably quoted your transcript without credit.
                                Last edited by Dan Dassow; 08-09-2014, 02:47 PM. Reason: original post munched

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