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Babylon 5 Movie through Studio JMS

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  • Originally posted by strashiLOL
    What was that all about?.. I'm not challenging his right to do whatever he wants with B5 universe. "Doesn't really matter" is really rude, though. I've been a B5 fan for the last 20 years, and my opinion does matter, just as yours or TripleF's.

    Ironically, this is exactly what B5 tries to teach you.
    My apologies, I wasn't aiming 'Doesn't really matter' at you or anybody in particular and didn't mean to be rude. It's simply that while it's fun to speculate to an extent, in this case, we pebbles don't get a vote on this one. JMS will write the film he thinks will be best commercially and for the B5 universe, and chances are, both aspects have to have equal weight.

    Believe me, I'm aware that individuals matter or I'd never have started the whole #FreeBabylon5 thing!

    Jan
    "As empathy spreads, civilization spreads. As empathy contracts, civilization contracts...as we're seeing now.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by strashiLOL
      ...
      Now, whether JMS had enough creative control to imbue those projects with B5 spirit is irrelevant. Relevant is the fact that since 1999 (when Crusade ended its run), JMS hasn't been involved in any project that truly contained this spirit. Just to reiterate again, I'm not saying this was his fault, it's just the way circumstances shaped up.

      "It gets one thinking", whether, due to a severe lack of practice, JMS is still able to "connect" with this notorious B5 spirit.

      He's without doubt still a very proficient writer, but I would really hate to see the new B5 movie containing Amazing Sheridan or Teenage Mutant Garibaldi, because that's what he's been practicing the most lately, hasn't he? Again, I may be wrong, feel free to enlighten me on this point.
      Given your aversion to comics it is probably no wonder that you cannot find the B5 spirit in his writing. I have read a few of those, and I actually *do* find that same spirit, even in the more commonly popular titles as Spiderman, not to speak about some of JMS' original comics work. Maybe not as pronounced, but JMS has his "B5" themes that are definitely present there.

      That is the first point where I would dispute your assessment.


      The second point is what is filming for Netflix right now : Sense8. OK, it is a cooperative effort with the Wachovskis, but I am pretty sure that the lack of practice you perceive will be eliminated by now, given that he is also writing those, but yes, it remains to be seen.

      While I actually do find some B5 spirit in Thor, and very much in Changeling it is, of course, a subjective assessment, indeed....
      Jan from Denmark

      My blog :

      http://www.babylonlurker.dk

      "Our thoughts form the Universe - they *always* matter"

      Comment


      • Originally posted by strashiLOL
        OK, let me rephrase my humble uninformed opinion.

        Thor, Underworld 4 and Ninja Assassin contained - in my humble opinion - zero amount of what I'd call "B5 spirit"; hence they were not to my taste. While taste is subjective, I consider the lack of the aforementioned spirit in those movies to be quite objective.
        We will have to agree to differ on Thor, because I love it. I think Branagh did a great job with the direction and it balances action, humour and pathos very nicely. In my opinion. It is probably my second favourite of the Avengers related movies, behind The Winter Soldier (The Avengers itself actually not appearing until 4th or 5th on that list).

        As previously pointed out Ninja Assassin was written to order as a huge rush-job, and Underworld 4 I thought sat nicely in the context of that particular franchise (which I don't think much of anyway).

        Changeling and Jeremiah contained some of this spirit, but not much. This judgement I also consider to be objective, but feel free to challenge it.
        WWZ remains a mystery since we haven't seen any of the original script.
        Loved Changeling and, to me, it showed JMS' strength as a writer, because I wouldn't have guessed from the handling of the subject matter that it was written by a TVSF writer at all.

        Jeremiah I also really liked, probably more so than Crusade.

        And JMS' World War Z scripts have been seen and were incredibly well received when they were leaked to the internet. The fact that the production company ditched them and went with something that resembles the book in name only is not his doing.

        He's without doubt still a very proficient writer, but I would really hate to see the new B5 movie containing Amazing Sheridan or Teenage Mutant Garibaldi, because that's what he's been practicing the most lately, hasn't he? Again, I may be wrong, feel free to enlighten me on this point.
        It is a shame that you seem to think JMS is only capable of writing one type of story at a time, as he has consistently shown throughout his career that this isn't the case.

        My real problem is all of this is the word "reboot". We don't really know what that means. There seems to be an assumption that it means "remake", but I am not sure it is that simple. I agree that remake of the B5 story is unnecessary, but surely it doesn't necessarily mean that.

        The B5 universe has been dormant in TV terms since 2002 (Legend of the Rangers), and in all forms since 2007 (Lost Tales). Rebooting could simply refer to re-starting with something appropriate given the ages of the original cast members ... after all, when I reboot my computer, I don't start again from scratch, I simply restart it in its current context.

        We won't really know what "Reboot" means here until we see what JMS has in mind more specifically.
        The Optimist: The glass is half full
        The Pessimist: The glass is half empty
        The Engineer: The glass is twice as big as it needs to be

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Delenn_of_Mir View Post
          There was so much great story material hinted at for the future of the universe, a story about the rangers on the post-burn earth, rediscovering space flight and aliens.

          They could rebuild a new Babylon 5 and have a similar kind of story but set way, way in the future. I like that idea a lot. Set that far ahead viewers wouldn't need to have seen the original, and of course we do have a couple years at least to get classic B5 back on american tv. If we did get it back and a new generation watched and fell in love, Joe might even change his mind about the reboot.

          So many things could change between now and 2016. WB could get a new person-in-charge who loves Babylon 5 and who thinks JMS is a hero. It could happen.

          Faith Manages
          I like your thinking, Delenn.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by strashiLOL
            Jan, you know (at least I think so...) my opinion on comics. I don't consider them art, even remotely, just a form of mass-entertainment. But that's a pointless discussion, I apologize for bringing the topic up again.
            Well that's pretty insulting to the artists that work on them.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by strashiLOL
              And why exactly?
              Let's see I dedicate hours upon hours per week to my craft, which happens to be comics, and perhaps go to art shows and other stuff many times a month, put my work out on the line and let myself be vulnerable for my own work and someone tells me it's not art? You better believe that's insulting.

              Originally posted by strashiLOL
              It sure isn't art in its traditional form, and how you perceive non-traditional forms is entirely up to you.
              Sorry, art is not "whatever it is to you." You may not appreciate art in all its forms, but that doesn't make it *NOT ART*.

              Originally posted by strashiLOL
              Many people don't consider movies (much less TV series) art, do you think it's insulting to directors?
              Yes.

              Originally posted by strashiLOL
              Many people don't consider photography art, do you think it's insulting to photographers?
              Yes.

              Originally posted by strashiLOL
              Finally, even within the traditional boundaries, many people disregard certain painting styles as art. It's entirely up to them. I won't even start talking about music in this context.
              *Appreciation* is up to them. *Definition* is not.

              Originally posted by strashiLOL
              The recipe for correct behavior seems to love comics (because JMS does them)
              REALLY? JMS is the source of why I like comics? Not the hundreds of thousands of comics written before Joe even touched a pen?!?

              Comment


              • Originally posted by strashiLOL
                As a general observation, people on this board do get insulted pretty easily. The recipe for correct behavior seems to love comics (because JMS does them), know by heart as many statements by "The Great Maker" as possible (because JMS doesn't make mistakes and thus is the source of some form of ultimate wisdom) and hate WB.
                Where on earth are you getting that from? The only one here who can quote JMS at the drop of a hat is me! And that probably has a lot to do with the fact that I went through all of his posts multiple times when working on the 'Asked & Answered' series. Several of us can quote B5 extensively, too. Nothing unusual about that.

                Nobody here has ever said JMS doesn't make mistakes, either. Nor does anybody hate WB. Roll our eyes at their odd corporate structure, yeah. But hate? Not at all.

                And while I think JMS is a genius, and I do despise WB (hate comics though), I cannot help but notice that some discussions on this board take on all-too-familiar forms displayed by some cults.
                Why do you despise WB? And exactly what cult-like behavior do you detect other than a tendency (for me, at least) to trust that whatever JMS writes will be worth the time and money to experience? That's experience, not blind faith.

                BTW, what's art in its 'traditional form'? There are so many forms of art, I don't think there *is* a traditional form. And I've seen some comic art that can tell wonderful stories without words at all and evoke incredibly strong emotion. Isn't that what art's all about?

                Jan
                "As empathy spreads, civilization spreads. As empathy contracts, civilization contracts...as we're seeing now.

                Comment


                • Attempting to tell people that their creative output is not art (by some unexplained and indefensible definition of art) is neither helpful nor particularly wise when regarded in historical context. This is the same logic by which science fiction such as Babylon 5 has so often been considered not to be art, and by which a million critics have embarrassed themselves to posterity. So many great works of revolutionary art were dismissed as "not art" by someone in their own time - especially when they were created in a then-unfamiliar medium.

                  As for JMS, the one movie that he's written that was actually an original screenplay and produced as intended - Changeling - was absolutely excellent, and definitely contained much that one might associate with Babylon 5: themes of hope, courage, government corruption, the power of the individual, people standing up for what's right.
                  Jonas Kyratzes | Lands of Dream

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Jonas View Post
                    As for JMS, the one movie that he's written that was actually an original screenplay and produced as intended - Changeling - was absolutely excellent, and definitely contained much that one might associate with Babylon 5: themes of hope, courage, government corruption, the power of the individual, people standing up for what's right.
                    That one StrashiLOL allows as being 'as good' as B5. Given the difficulty of the subject matter, I'd go so far as to say it was better. B5 was an excellent but fairly straightforward space opera. Changeling took investigative reporting to even uncover the story and tremendous skill to translate it on to the screen.

                    Jan
                    "As empathy spreads, civilization spreads. As empathy contracts, civilization contracts...as we're seeing now.

                    Comment


                    • I didn't really enjoy The Changeling. Do I have to leave the cult now?

                      In a related story ...

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by sarthaz View Post
                        I didn't really enjoy The Changeling. Do I have to leave the cult now?

                        In a related story ...

                        Differences of opinion do not a troll make. Yeah, we get tired of the same old, 'cult of JMS' accusations but it still just amounts to a difference of opinion. But really, a bunch of people hanging out on a site called JMS News *not* being fairly rabid fans? Pretty silly when you think of it.

                        I can see where Changeling (no The) might not be to a lot of people's taste. It was certainly a very different format than most movies. There were things I didn't care for and things I loved about it. But I'd *better* not have to leave the 'cult'!!

                        Jan
                        "As empathy spreads, civilization spreads. As empathy contracts, civilization contracts...as we're seeing now.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Jan View Post
                          Differences of opinion do not a troll make. Yeah, we get tired of the same old, 'cult of JMS' accusations but it still just amounts to a difference of opinion. But really, a bunch of people hanging out on a site called JMS News *not* being fairly rabid fans? Pretty silly when you think of it.

                          I can see where Changeling (no The) might not be to a lot of people's taste. It was certainly a very different format than most movies. There were things I didn't care for and things I loved about it. But I'd *better* not have to leave the 'cult'!!

                          Jan

                          Changeling was one of those films that will stay with me for a lifetime. It was so emotional and shocking and dark and depressing (kind of like how I felt the first time I watched "Sleeping in Light") except without the shocking brutality. It was truly amazing! I could never watch it again, but yet I will never forget it.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by strashiLOL
                            I'm not trolling, honestly, I'm:

                            - genuinely concerned with the prospect of reboot (I was just as concerned when this topic first came up 3 years ago, http://jmsnews.com/forums/showthread...7562#post67562);
                            - worrying whether JMS hasn't squandered his talent on comics & sub-par movies (since most of his output during the last 15 years was, as Jan put it, not to my liking).
                            Well, to quote a certain Narn philosopher:

                            Originally posted by G'Kar
                            If you're going to be worried every time the universe doesn't make sense, you're going to be worried every moment of every day
                            But really, given that you haven't even experienced most of JMS' output for the last 15 years, it's no wonder you're 'worried' and 'concerned'. Because just because you don't like what he's done doesn't mean that he's been squandering his talent. It's not as if that talent is some finite resource, either.

                            And what we haven't even seen is a *major* portion of that output. Haven't seen Lensman. Haven't seen Forbidden Planet. Haven't seen Repent, Harlequin! Said the Ticktock Man (Oh, I want to see that so bad!). Haven't seen Voices from the Dead. Haven't seen And They Marched into Sunlight. Haven't seen Shattered Union. Haven't seen Vlad Dracula. In other words, you've only seen a small portion of what he's written in the past several years.

                            Oh...and just so you know, there are quite a few comic artists who do actually paint their books. Do they qualify as artist in your definition now?

                            Jan
                            "As empathy spreads, civilization spreads. As empathy contracts, civilization contracts...as we're seeing now.

                            Comment


                            • OK, so you've just excluded Shakespeare, Dickens, as well as all the ancient Greek and Roman playwrights from your definition of art, so I think this aspect of the discussion is over for me.

                              As for Babylon 5, a reboot may well be a mistake, but if it is, then it's up to JMS to make that mistake. It's not the choice I would make as a writer, but it's not my story.
                              Jonas Kyratzes | Lands of Dream

                              Comment


                              • There is nothing new in this article other than it's from a non-science fiction news organization.

                                http://www.tvwise.co.uk/2014/08/baby...duction-start/
                                J. Michael Straczynski Announces

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