Babylon 5 Movie through Studio JMS

[Looney]

Now...show me what there is to read between the lines about in that statement which is essentially what he said at SDCC a few weeks ago.

Wait A Minute ! ! ! I only said read between the lines of ALL the stuff he was saying before Sense 8 was released.

P.S. Does anyone know the best place to get some B5 ringtones and alert tones for iPhone? iTunes store and Zedge are pretty weak in that department.

[Jan]

When I was saying that I meant using Sense 8 specifically toward building credibility. I think you need to go back to when he originally announced the B5 movie and read between the lines. He definitely thought Sense 8 was going to put him over the top on the "Street Cred" front. But I was just saying how Sense 8 specifically relates to his ability to raise money. Of course he has plenty of other projects to build that credibility. I was singling out Sense 8 because it was the one I was singling out at the moment; I wasn't saying it was the only thing helping or hindering his plans.

Sigh...seems like I just had this conversation elsewhere with somebody else. Why would I 'read between the lines' when I've got what he actually said and it's almost word-for-word what he said two years ago?!? No, he *specifically* said that it would take more TV shows and more movies to attract that level of investor. That's what he *said*. Twice. Here, let me remind you of his exact words:

Here’s the plan: We’re going to have, through Studio JMS, at least two, maybe three TV series on the air next year. We’re going to have at least one or two movies going ahead. And we’ll use that to parlay serious investment in the studio.

Now...show me what there is to read between the lines about in that statement which is essentially what he said at SDCC a few weeks ago.

[Looney]

And you keep saying 'based on' Sense8 when the whole discussion is about *building* credibility by adding additional credits.

When I was saying that I meant using Sense 8 specifically toward building credibility. I think you need to go back to when he originally announced the B5 movie and read between the lines. He definitely thought Sense 8 was going to put him over the top on the "Street Cred" front. But I was just saying how Sense 8 specifically relates to his ability to raise money. Of course he has plenty of other projects to build that credibility. I was singling out Sense 8 because it was the one I was singling out at the moment; I wasn't saying it was the only thing helping or hindering his plans.

[Jan]

Remember the film adaptation of some upcoming graphic novel with Graphic India announced in 2014. Did anything ever come of “Titans”? Either way jms said of it…..

https://www.yahoo.com/movies/comic-con-babylon-5-j-michael-straczynski-teams-003815152.html

“In an increasingly international marketplace, Titans represents the kind of multinational storytelling that will play an ever more important role in both film and publishing. Sharad Devarajan and Gotham Chopra have been extremely supportive of this story, and Peter Chernin is exactly the right person to shepherd this into a successful film franchise.”

JMS mentioned that as one of two possible comics projects that might still be in the pipeline when he announced his departure from comics. The other was with DC so I'm assuming that it was the Flash: Earth One graphic novel. He didn't give a status on 'Titans' so it may be wandering the halls of Development Hell.

[Triple F]

It’s interesting that the pull or influence of emerging foreign markets has been mentioned – and how that is having an effect on US based movie makers, and the material they’ve produced in recent years.

I don’t follow the news enough to make too much of a comment on the pro’s and con’s on that. But they’re certainly players, and a factor when it comes to some of the jms related projects which have been announced.

Remember the film adaptation of some upcoming graphic novel with Graphic India announced in 2014. Did anything ever come of “Titans”? Either way jms said of it…..

https://www.yahoo.com/movies/comic-con-babylon-5-j-michael-straczynski-teams-003815152.html

“In an increasingly international marketplace, Titans represents the kind of multinational storytelling that will play an ever more important role in both film and publishing. Sharad Devarajan and Gotham Chopra have been extremely supportive of this story, and Peter Chernin is exactly the right person to shepherd this into a successful film franchise.”

I’m guessing this was one of the projects hoped to increase the “street cred” by now (as was Red Mars), but it seems to be going nowhere with his recent announcement of no more comic work (which the film was to be based on). When taken with the international nature of Sense8, Joe is certainly not only looking but actively courting the international market and the funding possibilities therein (Netflix money is money derived – in no small part - from international sales).

MGM optioning Rising Stars is interesting, as is the involvement of the production company Atlas Entertainment who have been recently involved with a string of Marvel comic movies – Batman v Superman, Suicide Squad and Wonder Woman (which is already being rumoured to be another mess, and relative flop waiting to happen). I mention that because the reasons seem to be that it’s down to Studio interference…. and some of that *might* be down to massaging things for the growing foreign markets. The premise of Rising stars, when looked at what’s even on the TV these days, doesn’t look as interesting, innovative and new as it once did….. I’ve got a terrible feeling that the increasingly cynical and pissed off (US at least) movie goer will view it as “just another” superhero (or metahuman) idea trying to cash in on the popularity of that particular genre right now.

Anyway. I don’t have the first clue about how the funding of a movie comes about. But it’s clear that Studio JMS, at this point at least, isn’t going to be the lead production company on the Rising Stars movie, or indeed the tv adaptation of Midnight Nation (Gale Ann Hurd and here Pacific Western Productions are the main ones on that). So the odds are good that if even if Studio JMS’s “street cred” is raised with those being made and being any kind of success, I still suspect that investors will only get involved in a Babylon 5 movie if other production companies are involved – you rarely see a movie with only one production company….. and that raises a question in itself.

Midnight Nation and The Twelve might be great comic books, but they have nothing like the fan base or public awareness of Babylon 5…… So why are two relatively obscure comics getting funding for movies and TV shows and the far more well known Babylon 5 is not……. If it’s because of some silliness with Warner Bros. then what will have changed in 3, 4, or 5 years? I just don’t see how even a successful Studio JMS can make the movie without Warner Bros. involvement.

[Jan]

Oh and P.S. I think several of Netflix's biggest shows were renewed before they "aired" or within the first week.

How many of them had one third of their creative team take a season off? We do want to make real comparisons, right?

And you keep saying 'based on' Sense8 when the whole discussion is about *building* credibility by adding additional credits.

[Looney]

Yeah...about all that long, long, LONG (two months and five whole days!! )... Now, keep in mind that I have NO information about it at all but do you think that maybe...just maybe, having one of the three creator/writer/showrunner/directors bow out for the season might just have had something to do with it? Cause I sure do! But none of us knew about that for months, did we? Thus are internet rumors created.

As for hoping that Sense8 would be mainstream viewing? I'm betting that nobody involved had any hope of that once a certain rainbow dildo hit the floor. And popularity/buzz, etc? Bet you haven't checked out the Brazilian fans lately. Netflix takes a much more global view of things than the more (provincial) traditional networks do. Worldwide, Sense8 is very much a success.

IMO, of course...

ETA: I'm pretty sure that the 'street cred' that JMS is interested in is with people in the industry - not so much the person on the street.

Jan

Oh a I wish I had the energy to respond to more of these points because it is fun, but here is one I feel is worth noting. JMS is going to find it hard to build his Hollywood "Street Cred" to help finance a Babylon 5 movie based on Sense 8 being popular in Brazil. I think we all know that when it comes to big budget movie financing these days there are only two markets that have the highest percentage of getting what he wants, the U.S. and China. I don't know if Sense 8 is huge in China, but I know it isn't big enough in the U.S. for him to get what he wants. Now that isn't to say he couldn't get financing from other markets like Brazil, but if he wants Warner Brothers to join him based on his Sense 8's "Street Cred" they are going to say, "How popular is it in the U.S. and China?" Honestly I REALLY wish some company in Britain or Germany or both had financed a B5 feature ten years ago and I'd be perfectly happy if they decided to now.

Oh and P.S. I think several of Netflix's biggest shows were renewed before they "aired" or within the first week.

And while I am on the subject, I love Netflix's series STRANGER THINGS.

[Jan]

And there still could be a teeny tiny bit of hope that maybe in 10-20 years or so there could possibly be a movie.

You know what? I've decided I envy you for that hope (however dim ). I'm really sad about JMS leaving comics behind for good. Oh, it's for *purely* selfish reasons, I know, but I'm still sad.

See, with Joe's Comics, whatever JMS decided to write, if he decided it was worthy, he could publish it and with a fairly minimal delay, we'd (okay, I'D) get to see it. And such a variety! Dream Police and Ten Grand and Apocalypse Al and all the rest...

With novels, everything is at the mercy of a publisher buying and publishing it whether I'll ever get to see it. And plays?? A whole production has to be launched at a theater that's probably nowhere near me IF it gets produced at all!

All joined with features which are dependent on studios and lousy odds only to be equaled by those dictating whether TV shows get made - at all, much less made well; so there are likely to be more instances like Red Mars where there's a script I'll never see made now.

I'm greedy, I admit it. All my life I kept waiting and hoping for a writer who could write fast enough to keep up with my reading speed and *finally*, there was JMS who seems to have a pocket universe tucked away (or a great relationship with the Doctor) who not only writes fast but he creates the most compelling characters regularly...and now my 'feed', a steady stream of comics is cut off. Only two more issues left and that's all he wrote/will write.

Oh, I'll get over it. And Sense8 *is* being made!! And hopefully the Bradbury/Gaiman project will happen. And fingers crossed that Rising Stars will be fast-tracked and Midnight Nation will be meddle-free and amazing...all I have to do is wait (and wait...).

Okay, rant over! Just wanted to say that I understand a little better some of your frustration, folks! Hope I haven't sounded too harsh...

Jan

[moreorless]

This is an interesting question and I thought I'd answer it separately. (Don't tell the moderator that I'm double posting! )

First and foremost, of course, is the fact that only JMS knows his own thoughts but my first reaction is that this isn't it. While I don't follow industry news at all, it seems that Kevin Tsujihara, CEO of WB Entertainment is bent on doing things the way he wants, much to some people's dismay, and it doesn't seem to include B5 in any way.

Is it likely that WB will come on board whenever it comes time for JMS to look for major investors? Dunno. I'd hope that they'd realize how silly they'd look if they didn't support it and it became even a modest hit. But studios have been known to do pretty stupid things in the past.

My personal feeling is that JMS has quit hoping they might do something with the property and is doing the only thing he can do after his attempt to buy the rights back dead-ended. But that's just me.

Jan

That reaction seems rather unfair on Peter Jackson at least, for one thing the Hobbit films did make significant amounts of money and for another a large part of the motivation behind them seems to have been to create work for WETA employees.

The big failing of WB for me is that they've largely ignored the importance of the internet. A lot of box office returns are really decided by how hyped up and invested in something the net is, I don't think Marvel for example has yet produced a truly great superhero film but there good enough that the net hype will tide them over, the same with the recent Star Wars films.

A big issue might well be how well the new Trek TV series does, if that's a success then I'd imagine WB might be more willing to look at B5 again.

[DaveNarn]

Are they? Or are they just going after a different, updated market? Not trying to be confrontational, I'm very curious. Have there been any quotes from the studio to that effect? I'm certain that every language is capable of subtleties so is it a matter of lousy translation, then? I'd be interested in finding out.

Reports like this from the LA Times indicate the changing attitude of movie makers for the foreign market.
With the likes of Joss Whedon on board, just follow the money

http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/envelope/cotown/la-et-ct-china-growth-20151105-story.html

So I'm thinking there may be difficulties in cultural translation.

"The growing market has made China increasingly attractive to the major Hollywood studios. Warner Bros. recently announced a deal with China Media Capital, a state-backed investment fund, to produce Chinese-language movies."

[Jan]

If I were wrong Netflix would have renewed for a second season sooner than they did.

Yeah...about all that long, long, LONG (two months and five whole days!! )... Now, keep in mind that I have NO information about it at all but do you think that maybe...just maybe, having one of the three creator/writer/showrunner/directors bow out for the season might just have had something to do with it? Cause I sure do! But none of us knew about that for months, did we? Thus are internet rumors created.

As for hoping that Sense8 would be mainstream viewing? I'm betting that nobody involved had any hope of that once a certain rainbow dildo hit the floor. And popularity/buzz, etc? Bet you haven't checked out the Brazilian fans lately. Netflix takes a much more global view of things than the more (provincial) traditional networks do. Worldwide, Sense8 is very much a success.

IMO, of course...

ETA: I'm pretty sure that the 'street cred' that JMS is interested in is with people in the industry - not so much the person on the street.

Jan

[Looney]

Speak for yourself. I'm not sure where you got any kind of 'we all know' anything from anywhere, but given that Netflix has financed an even bigger second season than the first, I'm pretty sure you're mistaken. Is it 'mainstream viewing'? Of course not. "We all know" it was never intended to be, don't we?

If I were wrong Netflix would have renewed for a second season sooner than they did. Plus, Netflix had to hope it would be 'mainstream viewing' as did JMS. I hoped it would be 'mainstream viewing' because I know that mass consumption is becoming the only measure of success in that industry. JMS isn't going to build "Street Cred" to finance future projects with niche projects. Numbers are what matters and if massive numbers of Netflix viewers watched Sense 8 wouldn't people be talking about it? Wouldn't you read about it more in the media? Well the masses watching, talking, writing, and awarding it is what builds "Street Cred" in that industry. I would say buying it as well, but I don't know what the home video deal is for Sense 8. I know some Netflix shows make it to Blu-Ray and DVD and some don't. It doesn't seem to matter how big the show is only what their deal with Netflix is; i.e. I can't figure out why some of these Marvel Netflix shows haven't started being released on Blu-Ray and DVD.

Long story long Jan, I have no actual evidence other than the events as they have unfolded. JMS basically telling everyone it would change television forever (Look it up) + The time it took to renew + mainstream media coverage + average person on the street having ever heard of it = Not helping generate the "Street Cred" JMS and the rest of us wanted it to generate. . . .

[Delenn_of_Mir]

Thanks for getting the mod to change the title, Jan.

It does make sense that with all his eye problems he was unable to do a lot of new work, which is reasonable. And Sense8 is all the studio has done, so it does make sense that back then he thought they would have accomplished more by now - so that would mean the goalpost didn't really shift - time kinda shifted it, but it wasn't intentional, and his intentions never changed.

When you first told us what he said, to me it just sounded like a copout, and I interpreted it as he'd never wanted to do it in the first place and he was just giving a lame excuse. (I can see why that interpretation wouldn't make any sense to you, since you're thinking about it logically, and I was thinking about it illogically) But now that you've explained it logically, it sounds like a genuine answer now.

And there still could be a teeny tiny bit of hope that maybe in 10-20 years or so there could possibly be a movie.

[Jan]

Consider the new Trek movies, they are dumbed-down to sell to the biggest entertainment markets - foreign countries like China.
Would the nuances of our culture be lost in translation?

Are they? Or are they just going after a different, updated market? Not trying to be confrontational, I'm very curious. Have there been any quotes from the studio to that effect? I'm certain that every language is capable of subtleties so is it a matter of lousy translation, then? I'd be interested in finding out.

[DaveNarn]

A Narn's perspective -
Ironically a major B5 movie may suffer the same fate as the first Star Trek Pilot… too cerebral.
Consider the new Trek movies, they are dumbed-down to sell to the biggest entertainment markets - foreign countries like China.
Would the nuances of our culture be lost in translation?