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  • Originally posted by Jonas View Post
    Except Babylon 5 is finished, and ASOIAF isn't. Which is a pretty huge difference. B5 was never really intended to be a franchise, anyway, so whatever JMS ends up doing, it's never going to be "more B5" in the traditional sense.
    I'll disagree with you a little bit there. It's true that B5 is finished, but so are the books "A Game of Thrones", "A Clash of Kings", "A Storm of Swords", etc. I think most people would argue that Crusade and Legend of the Rangers were attempts at franchising the B5 universe, and I would venture that most people would call them unfinished works.

    I'm currently deep into a DVD re-watch. I think the last time I watched the whole series was back in the TMOS days which was about a decade ago. It really strikes me how relevant the show is to today's political and social environment.

    The television dynamic has changed in the past decade as well. Now it seems like every cable channel is clamoring for it's own unique serialized content. Even MTV has a high fantasy show for goodness sake, and SyFy has gone back to doing hard science fiction. I think a B5 universe show would do really well as a 10-12 episode series. I know I'm preaching to the choir here. Then you have to deal with the whole dysfunctional JMS/WB Television dynamic to get anything TV related done.

    The old saying goes--Where there is a will there is a way. I simply question whether the will is there any longer. This isn't a complaint against JMS, merely an observation as an outsider. He doesn't owe me or B5 fans a thing.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Delenn_of_Mir View Post
      JMS has tried really hard over the years to do more B5, but since WB holds all the rights to his creation he hasn't had the ability to do anything. He even tried buying the rights back and WB said, "No. We hate B5 and refuse to do anything with it, and we refuse to let anyone else do anything with it because it will make us look bad when it's successful."

      Now that he has studio JMS, he has the possibility of doing a movie or movie series, but since he couldn't do B5 for a very long time he's gotten involved in hundreds of other projects and it's impossible for him to work on all of them at once.

      He's extremely busy and has obligations to all the people with the money to help him do B5 eventually. But he's like a politician, he has to give his benefactors the projects they want first before they'll agree to fund the movie. At least this is how it works in my head. "giggles"
      Yep, I understand the dysfunctional dynamic between WB and JMS. It's a damn sad situation. I also understand that JMS needs to work where the money is. I actually give him more of a pass than GRRM in that regard. GRRM probably has a brinks truck delivering money on a daily basis I'm just happy we have Game of Thrones on HBO because it's the only way we are going to see the ending to the story.

      I still contend that something B5 related could have or could be done if the will was there. It's been nine years since The Lost Tales?

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Technomage-Galen View Post
        Yep, I understand the dysfunctional dynamic between WB and JMS. It's a damn sad situation. I also understand that JMS needs to work where the money is. I actually give him more of a pass than GRRM in that regard. GRRM probably has a brinks truck delivering money on a daily basis I'm just happy we have Game of Thrones on HBO because it's the only way we are going to see the ending to the story.

        I still contend that something B5 related could have or could be done if the will was there. It's been nine years since The Lost Tales?

        JMS is never going to match the will of a fan like me who only loves B5 and nothing else he has done. His will is divided in a thousand ways, with a thousand loves or more.

        He ain't a one-trick pony. If we were all like Jan we'd be happier than a Pooh Bear in a forest full of nothing but honey trees.

        Sadly, I just love one kind of honey that comes from the one-of-a-kind, extremely rare honey tree of which there is only one. Sure, it exists in the forest and Pooh Bear will reach it eventually, but we just have to be extremely patient while we wait for him to reach it.

        *screams silently into the wind*

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Technomage-Galen View Post
          I'll disagree with you a little bit there. It's true that B5 is finished, but so are the books "A Game of Thrones", "A Clash of Kings", "A Storm of Swords", etc.
          To be pedantic, those books do not tell a complete story; they're more like B5's seasons.

          I think most people would argue that Crusade and Legend of the Rangers were attempts at franchising the B5 universe, and I would venture that most people would call them unfinished works.
          Agreed (and I personally think it would've been better not to go in that direction, although I adore The Lost Tales). But a B5 movie wouldn't pick up any of those threads anyway, since the plan was to do a reboot.
          Jonas Kyratzes | Lands of Dream

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Delenn_of_Mir View Post
            He ain't a one-trick pony. If we were all like Jan we'd be happier than a Pooh Bear in a forest full of nothing but honey trees.
            Ain't it the truth! When I was (much!!) younger I used to wish really hard for a writer who could write fast enough to keep up with my fast reading. Wouldn't start series until the trilogy or whatever was complete. (Piers Anthony actually almost came close to being fast enough except for the fact that he pretty much wrote the same book over and over, just with different puns.)

            And then came JMS who writesandwritesandwrites and I figure I probably don't even know about half of the stuff he's written and shoved in a drawer (and boy, does that drive me crazy!!). And the interminable wait for things to get made IF they get made...? Well, let's just say that there's more than one qualification for that 'Jan Schroeder is insane' that JMS has commented about me...twice.

            Okay...gonna wander away and fondle my script collection now...

            Jan
            "As empathy spreads, civilization spreads. As empathy contracts, civilization contracts...as we're seeing now.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Jan View Post
              Ain't it the truth! When I was (much!!) younger I used to wish really hard for a writer who could write fast enough to keep up with my fast reading. Wouldn't start series until the trilogy or whatever was complete. (Piers Anthony actually almost came close to being fast enough except for the fact that he pretty much wrote the same book over and over, just with different puns.)

              And then came JMS who writesandwritesandwrites and I figure I probably don't even know about half of the stuff he's written and shoved in a drawer (and boy, does that drive me crazy!!). And the interminable wait for things to get made IF they get made...? Well, let's just say that there's more than one qualification for that 'Jan Schroeder is insane' that JMS has commented about me...twice.

              Okay...gonna wander away and fondle my script collection now...

              Jan
              So here is my question Jan.

              Firstly, I'll take your word for it that JMS is a prolific writer. You know him probably as well as any fan.

              Why doesn't he have a number of polished ready-to-go B5 projects in the hopper and ready to go? It's been nine years since the lost tales, and 12+ years since TMOS.

              My thinking is that if he really had the will (and desire) to create more B5, that he would have been working on material over this period of time. I'm guessing he probably has notes dating back decades, but I'm speaking of more active and focused writings. His movie hints from last year and beyond make it appear he's pretty much starting from scratch.

              I know he's a busy guy, and maybe it's his business sensibilities that would keep him from putting effort into something that maybe/probably will never see the light of day? I guess that is where I look at the desire aspect.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Technomage-Galen View Post
                Why doesn't he have a number of polished ready-to-go B5 projects in the hopper and ready to go? It's been nine years since the lost tales, and 12+ years since TMOS.
                Short answer: Because he's a professional. That's not meant to be rude, it's how professionals do things-they get paid for working, same as you or me. Writing is how he makes his living. You seem to be (correct me if I'm wrong) positing that he have actual, completed scripts all written and waiting just in case somebody commissions something? It doesn't work that way.

                For instance, TMOS. That was a commissioned script and the group that commissioned it had input into what kind of story they wanted to tell and maybe even what characters they might want (we don't know, though there was some issue with wanting to re-cast characters). Or they might have asked JMS to pitch ideas he already had. However it went, that script (which from what JMS posted underwent numerous revisions) belongs to the group that commissioned him to write it.

                Ditto the TV series that WB commissioned. In that case, JMS said that he'd gotten complete creative control written into his contract. Not knowing exactly when the proposed venue dead-ended, we don't know whether he'd completed any scripts or just made notes. But since WB is a signatory of the WGA Basic Agreement, outlines and scripts would trigger certain payments.

                Your (apparent) thinking is that JMS should have finished product ready to whip out at a moment's notice. Given that he doesn't own those characters or the B5 universe (except for the feature film rights), that would be the equivalent of him writing fanfic that could never see the light of day. Why would he do that instead of contracting for a feature film script that will keep him in coffee and chocolate and kitty treats for the next while?

                But when you talk about will... What about his engaging in a couple of years of negotiations to try to buy back the rights to B5 so that he *could* do something with it? In my book, that's putting his money down on something he believes in and, if he'd been successful, would have been a far greater service for B5 than writing a few scripts for 'just in case'. And given those negotiations, chances are that he's got a pretty good idea of where WB stands on the idea of making new B5. My impression is that they (WB) have no intention of doing anything whatsoever. And given that they're the only possible market other than JMS' own feature film efforts is another good reason for him to not have written any scripts 'on spec'.

                Hoping this doesn't come across as confrontational - just want to give you as good an answer as is my understanding.

                Jan
                Last edited by Jan; 04-05-2016, 06:18 AM.
                "As empathy spreads, civilization spreads. As empathy contracts, civilization contracts...as we're seeing now.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Jan View Post
                  Short answer: Because he's a professional. That's not meant to be rude, it's how professionals do things-they get paid for working, same as you or me. Writing is how he makes his living. You seem to be (correct me if I'm wrong) positing that he have actual, completed scripts all written and waiting just in case somebody commissions something? It doesn't work that way.

                  For instance, TMOS. That was a commissioned script and the group that commissioned it had input into what kind of story they wanted to tell and maybe even what characters they might want (we don't know, though there was some issue with wanting to re-cast characters). Or they might have asked JMS to pitch ideas he already had. However it went, that script (which from what JMS posted underwent numerous revisions) belongs to the group that commissioned him to write it.

                  Ditto the TV series that WB commissioned. In that case, JMS said that he'd gotten complete creative control written into his contract. Not knowing exactly when the proposed venue dead-ended, we don't know whether he'd completed any scripts or just made notes. But since WB is a signatory of the WGA Basic Agreement, outlines and scripts would trigger certain payments.

                  Your (apparent) thinking is that JMS should have finished product ready to whip out at a moment's notice. Given that he doesn't own those characters or the B5 universe (except for the feature film rights), that would be the equivalent of him writing fanfic that could never see the light of day. Why would he do that instead of contracting for a feature film script that will keep him in coffee and chocolate and kitty treats for the next while?

                  But when you talk about will... What about his engaging in a couple of years of negotiations to try to buy back the rights to B5 so that he *could* do something with it? In my book, that's putting his money down on something he believes in and, if he'd been successful, would have been a far greater service for B5 than writing a few scripts for 'just in case'. And given those negotiations, chances are that he's got a pretty good idea of where WB stands on the idea of making new B5. My impression is that they (WB) have no intention of doing anything whatsoever. And given that they're the only possible market other than JMS' own feature film efforts is another good reason for him to not have written any scripts 'on spec'.

                  Hoping this doesn't come across as confrontational - just want to give you as good an answer as is my understanding.

                  Jan

                  Great answer, Jan! That makes a ton of sense. Also I wasn't around for the TMOS days and I always wondered what happened to that script.

                  Comment


                  • No real news but at least it's confirmation that the feature film's still being planned:

                    ADTV: Hollywood loves reboots. Would you like He-Man to get a reboot? Or even Babylon 5?

                    JMS: He-Man I don’t own, so I can’t comment. I would love to reboot Babylon 5 as a series, but Warner Bros. has made it clear that they don’t want to do anything with the show since it didn’t come about through the WB Television division (it was developed by WB Domestic Distribution during the PTEN network stage), so as far as they’re concerned it simply doesn’t exist. I do retain the film rights, however, and I plan to try and get a Babylon 5 feature in the works soon.
                    http://www.awardsdaily.com/tv/interv...8-straczynski/

                    Jan
                    "As empathy spreads, civilization spreads. As empathy contracts, civilization contracts...as we're seeing now.

                    Comment


                    • *I plan to try and get a Babylon 5 feature in the works soon"


                      I'm not really sure what this means or if I should feel excited or not. He plans to try, sounds very wishy-washy and non-committal. It's nice he'd still like to do it, but it doesn't sound like he has any definite plans or steps to take to make it actually happen.

                      Of course maybe he's just being purposely vague and his plans are more concrete than him simply thinking it would be a fun thing to do, maybe, one day, somehow, wish upon a star....

                      I would have liked it better if he'd said, "yes, I've written a really interesting movie script, it's sitting in a drawer of a WB exec, right now, being totally ignored. But by May 2 of 2018, if I still haven't heard from them I'm going to make the movie myself. I already have 14 investors who have double pinky sworn that they'll give me the money, and I'm really really excited about it."

                      "giggles muchly"

                      But thanks for sharing that he did mention it again, at least.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Delenn_of_Mir View Post
                        *I plan to try and get a Babylon 5 feature in the works soon"


                        I'm not really sure what this means or if I should feel excited or not. He plans to try, sounds very wishy-washy and non-committal. It's nice he'd still like to do it, but it doesn't sound like he has any definite plans or steps to take to make it actually happen.

                        Of course maybe he's just being purposely vague and his plans are more concrete than him simply thinking it would be a fun thing to do, maybe, one day, somehow, wish upon a star....

                        I would have liked it better if he'd said, "yes, I've written a really interesting movie script, it's sitting in a drawer of a WB exec, right now, being totally ignored. But by May 2 of 2018, if I still haven't heard from them I'm going to make the movie myself. I already have 14 investors who have double pinky sworn that they'll give me the money, and I'm really really excited about it."

                        "giggles muchly"

                        But thanks for sharing that he did mention it again, at least.
                        Yep, sounds way more wishy washy than the original announcement. I guess he's trying not to get people's hopes up too much. I hate to be the pessimist here, but I highly doubt we'll see anything new in the B5 universe for quite some time.
                        Captain John Sheridan: I really *hate* it when you do that.

                        Kosh: Good!

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Delenn_of_Mir View Post
                          I would have liked it better if he'd said, "yes, I've written a really interesting movie script, it's sitting in a drawer of a WB exec, right now, being totally ignored. But by May 2 of 2018, if I still haven't heard from them I'm going to make the movie myself. I already have 14 investors who have double pinky sworn that they'll give me the money, and I'm really really excited about it."
                          Originally posted by Ubik View Post
                          Yep, sounds way more wishy washy than the original announcement. I guess he's trying not to get people's hopes up too much. I hate to be the pessimist here, but I highly doubt we'll see anything new in the B5 universe for quite some time.
                          Sigh...Yes, of course JMS is going to be extremely detailed in describing every step of every creative impulse and every business meeting in an interview primarily about Sense8, isn't he? How could he possibly have not been?!?!? </sarcasm>

                          Y'know what I really want to ask him at SDCC this year? "What's the average time something takes from idea to finished product in the theater?" Oh, he won't be able to answer, of course, but I wish he could. Because so many people get blindered and seem to think that a project should take up ever waking moment when the reality is that the process is slow - years and years in many cases. Look at the history of Sense8 for a perfect example.

                          Jan
                          "As empathy spreads, civilization spreads. As empathy contracts, civilization contracts...as we're seeing now.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Jan View Post
                            Sigh...Yes, of course JMS is going to be extremely detailed in describing every step of every creative impulse and every business meeting in an interview primarily about Sense8, isn't he? How could he possibly have not been?!?!? </sarcasm>

                            Y'know what I really want to ask him at SDCC this year? "What's the average time something takes from idea to finished product in the theater?" Oh, he won't be able to answer, of course, but I wish he could. Because so many people get blindered and seem to think that a project should take up ever waking moment when the reality is that the process is slow - years and years in many cases. Look at the history of Sense8 for a perfect example.

                            Jan
                            Ummmmm . . . Jan . . . is that really going to be your question? I mean I am hoping you will be stumped because THAT is the venue where he would make any big announcement like "script is finished.", not some random interview or whatever. I am hoping you will be so flustered you won't actually remember what question you were going to ask.

                            And if he doesn't have an announcement like that to make then I don't expect you to say anything about it. Just make sure he sees you in all of your splendor - looking very forlorn. That will be message enough. LOL
                            Susan Ivanova, "I'll be in the car."

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Looney View Post
                              Ummmmm . . . Jan . . . is that really going to be your question? I mean I am hoping you will be stumped because THAT is the venue where he would make any big announcement like "script is finished.", not some random interview or whatever. I am hoping you will be so flustered you won't actually remember what question you were going to ask.
                              I never know what my question will be until I ask it! Sometimes I'm certain right up until he says something and then I ask something completely different. I very seldom get a second question in - though why he doesn't just turn the mike over to me is a true mystery!

                              And if he doesn't have an announcement like that to make then I don't expect you to say anything about it. Just make sure he sees you in all of your splendor - looking very forlorn. That will be message enough. LOL
                              I doubt if he's ever noticed one way or another but I try to sit in the same general place depending on the room. Usually about 3-5 rows back as close to the microphone as I can. That way my recorder picks up everything.

                              ETA: 'Fraid I wouldn't be looking forlorn at all. While I'd love to see more B5, I'm happy with the story we have. I'd love to see the station again with modern CGI, though. JMS showed the opening sequence of the Lost Tales on a big screen in New York and it was fabulous!

                              Jan
                              Last edited by Jan; 06-10-2016, 11:32 AM.
                              "As empathy spreads, civilization spreads. As empathy contracts, civilization contracts...as we're seeing now.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Jan View Post
                                Sigh...Yes, of course JMS is going to be extremely detailed in describing every step of every creative impulse and every business meeting in an interview primarily about Sense8, isn't he? How could he possibly have not been?!?!? </sarcasm>

                                Y'know what I really want to ask him at SDCC this year? "What's the average time something takes from idea to finished product in the theater?" Oh, he won't be able to answer, of course, but I wish he could. Because so many people get blindered and seem to think that a project should take up ever waking moment when the reality is that the process is slow - years and years in many cases. Look at the history of Sense8 for a perfect example.

                                Jan
                                Jan, I take your point, I really do... but I sure wish JMS wouldn't make bold anoucements like this, and then drag his feet.

                                I wish he'd wait till he had something concrete before teasing the fans like that. It just looks kinda bad on all levels, both for the fans and for drumming up support and hype for the project. The announcement generate quite a lot of media interest from SF centric sites, but with no real follow up to keep it going.

                                I'm not the sort who goes in for fan entitlement, and I maintain that JMS owes the fans nothing... but, this was 2014 and as far as we know there's still no completed script. So, hence my pessimism. It's just a shame, I'd love some new B5!

                                I will continue to wait patiently, but may occasionally have to let off some steam. You shouldn't begrudge us that, it's totally fair!
                                Last edited by Ubik; 06-10-2016, 02:39 PM.
                                Captain John Sheridan: I really *hate* it when you do that.

                                Kosh: Good!

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