Babylon 5 Movie through Studio JMS

[Delenn_of_Mir]

I'm trying to turn over a new positive leaf, so twill only post positive things from now on. So any day now Joe is going to say something new about the B5 movie. Like, "hey guys, guess what? I finished the script and it's amazing. Y'all are gonna love it."

[Jan]

I'm trying to turn over a new positive leaf, so twill only post positive things from now on. So any day now Joe is going to say something new about the B5 movie. Like, "hey guys, guess what? I finished the script and it's amazing. Y'all are gonna love it."

That's the spirit! And I promise I wasn't trying to beat you up, I was just trying to understand. If you picked that up, I'm sure others probably did so I was curious (okay, nosey )

Jan

[Delenn_of_Mir]

That's the spirit! And I promise I wasn't trying to beat you up, I was just trying to understand. If you picked that up, I'm sure others probably did so I was curious (okay, nosey )

Jan

No worries!

Maybe JMS will make an exciting B5 announcement on my birthday in 2 months. That'd be sweet.

[Technomage-Galen]

I'm sorry to say, but I've pretty much given up on anything new B5 related ever occurring.

In some ways JMS and B5 related material remind me a lot of GRRM when it comes to ASOIAF. They are both eagerly attend comic con panels, bury themselves in a multitude of other projects, are happy to discuss old works, and appear totally apathetic for creating new material in those universes.

[Jonas]

I'm sorry to say, but I've pretty much given up on anything new B5 related ever occurring.

In some ways JMS and B5 related material remind me a lot of GRRM when it comes to ASOIAF. They are both eagerly attend comic con panels, bury themselves in a multitude of other projects, are happy to discuss old works, and appear totally apathetic for creating new material in those universes.

Except Babylon 5 is finished, and ASOIAF isn't. Which is a pretty huge difference. B5 was never really intended to be a franchise, anyway, so whatever JMS ends up doing, it's never going to be "more B5" in the traditional sense.

[Delenn_of_Mir]

I'm sorry to say, but I've pretty much given up on anything new B5 related ever occurring.

In some ways JMS and B5 related material remind me a lot of GRRM when it comes to ASOIAF. They are both eagerly attend comic con panels, bury themselves in a multitude of other projects, are happy to discuss old works, and appear totally apathetic for creating new material in those universes.

JMS has tried really hard over the years to do more B5, but since WB holds all the rights to his creation he hasn't had the ability to do anything. He even tried buying the rights back and WB said, "No. We hate B5 and refuse to do anything with it, and we refuse to let anyone else do anything with it because it will make us look bad when it's successful."

Now that he has studio JMS, he has the possibility of doing a movie or movie series, but since he couldn't do B5 for a very long time he's gotten involved in hundreds of other projects and it's impossible for him to work on all of them at once.

He's extremely busy and has obligations to all the people with the money to help him do B5 eventually. But he's like a politician, he has to give his benefactors the projects they want first before they'll agree to fund the movie. At least this is how it works in my head. "giggles"

[Technomage-Galen]

Except Babylon 5 is finished, and ASOIAF isn't. Which is a pretty huge difference. B5 was never really intended to be a franchise, anyway, so whatever JMS ends up doing, it's never going to be "more B5" in the traditional sense.

I'll disagree with you a little bit there. It's true that B5 is finished, but so are the books "A Game of Thrones", "A Clash of Kings", "A Storm of Swords", etc. I think most people would argue that Crusade and Legend of the Rangers were attempts at franchising the B5 universe, and I would venture that most people would call them unfinished works.

I'm currently deep into a DVD re-watch. I think the last time I watched the whole series was back in the TMOS days which was about a decade ago. It really strikes me how relevant the show is to today's political and social environment.

The television dynamic has changed in the past decade as well. Now it seems like every cable channel is clamoring for it's own unique serialized content. Even MTV has a high fantasy show for goodness sake, and SyFy has gone back to doing hard science fiction. I think a B5 universe show would do really well as a 10-12 episode series. I know I'm preaching to the choir here. Then you have to deal with the whole dysfunctional JMS/WB Television dynamic to get anything TV related done.

The old saying goes--Where there is a will there is a way. I simply question whether the will is there any longer. This isn't a complaint against JMS, merely an observation as an outsider. He doesn't owe me or B5 fans a thing.

[Technomage-Galen]

JMS has tried really hard over the years to do more B5, but since WB holds all the rights to his creation he hasn't had the ability to do anything. He even tried buying the rights back and WB said, "No. We hate B5 and refuse to do anything with it, and we refuse to let anyone else do anything with it because it will make us look bad when it's successful."

Now that he has studio JMS, he has the possibility of doing a movie or movie series, but since he couldn't do B5 for a very long time he's gotten involved in hundreds of other projects and it's impossible for him to work on all of them at once.

He's extremely busy and has obligations to all the people with the money to help him do B5 eventually. But he's like a politician, he has to give his benefactors the projects they want first before they'll agree to fund the movie. At least this is how it works in my head. "giggles"

Yep, I understand the dysfunctional dynamic between WB and JMS. It's a damn sad situation. I also understand that JMS needs to work where the money is. I actually give him more of a pass than GRRM in that regard. GRRM probably has a brinks truck delivering money on a daily basis I'm just happy we have Game of Thrones on HBO because it's the only way we are going to see the ending to the story.

I still contend that something B5 related could have or could be done if the will was there. It's been nine years since The Lost Tales?

[Delenn_of_Mir]

Yep, I understand the dysfunctional dynamic between WB and JMS. It's a damn sad situation. I also understand that JMS needs to work where the money is. I actually give him more of a pass than GRRM in that regard. GRRM probably has a brinks truck delivering money on a daily basis I'm just happy we have Game of Thrones on HBO because it's the only way we are going to see the ending to the story.

I still contend that something B5 related could have or could be done if the will was there. It's been nine years since The Lost Tales?

JMS is never going to match the will of a fan like me who only loves B5 and nothing else he has done. His will is divided in a thousand ways, with a thousand loves or more.

He ain't a one-trick pony. If we were all like Jan we'd be happier than a Pooh Bear in a forest full of nothing but honey trees.

Sadly, I just love one kind of honey that comes from the one-of-a-kind, extremely rare honey tree of which there is only one. Sure, it exists in the forest and Pooh Bear will reach it eventually, but we just have to be extremely patient while we wait for him to reach it.

*screams silently into the wind*

[Jonas]

I'll disagree with you a little bit there. It's true that B5 is finished, but so are the books "A Game of Thrones", "A Clash of Kings", "A Storm of Swords", etc.

To be pedantic, those books do not tell a complete story; they're more like B5's seasons.

I think most people would argue that Crusade and Legend of the Rangers were attempts at franchising the B5 universe, and I would venture that most people would call them unfinished works.

Agreed (and I personally think it would've been better not to go in that direction, although I adore The Lost Tales). But a B5 movie wouldn't pick up any of those threads anyway, since the plan was to do a reboot.

[Jan]

He ain't a one-trick pony. If we were all like Jan we'd be happier than a Pooh Bear in a forest full of nothing but honey trees.

Ain't it the truth! When I was (much!!) younger I used to wish really hard for a writer who could write fast enough to keep up with my fast reading. Wouldn't start series until the trilogy or whatever was complete. (Piers Anthony actually almost came close to being fast enough except for the fact that he pretty much wrote the same book over and over, just with different puns.)

And then came JMS who writesandwritesandwrites and I figure I probably don't even know about half of the stuff he's written and shoved in a drawer (and boy, does that drive me crazy!!). And the interminable wait for things to get made IF they get made...? Well, let's just say that there's more than one qualification for that 'Jan Schroeder is insane' that JMS has commented about me...twice.

Okay...gonna wander away and fondle my script collection now...

Jan

[Technomage-Galen]

Ain't it the truth! When I was (much!!) younger I used to wish really hard for a writer who could write fast enough to keep up with my fast reading. Wouldn't start series until the trilogy or whatever was complete. (Piers Anthony actually almost came close to being fast enough except for the fact that he pretty much wrote the same book over and over, just with different puns.)

And then came JMS who writesandwritesandwrites and I figure I probably don't even know about half of the stuff he's written and shoved in a drawer (and boy, does that drive me crazy!!). And the interminable wait for things to get made IF they get made...? Well, let's just say that there's more than one qualification for that 'Jan Schroeder is insane' that JMS has commented about me...twice.

Okay...gonna wander away and fondle my script collection now...

Jan

So here is my question Jan.

Firstly, I'll take your word for it that JMS is a prolific writer. You know him probably as well as any fan.

Why doesn't he have a number of polished ready-to-go B5 projects in the hopper and ready to go? It's been nine years since the lost tales, and 12+ years since TMOS.

My thinking is that if he really had the will (and desire) to create more B5, that he would have been working on material over this period of time. I'm guessing he probably has notes dating back decades, but I'm speaking of more active and focused writings. His movie hints from last year and beyond make it appear he's pretty much starting from scratch.

I know he's a busy guy, and maybe it's his business sensibilities that would keep him from putting effort into something that maybe/probably will never see the light of day? I guess that is where I look at the desire aspect.

[Jan]

Why doesn't he have a number of polished ready-to-go B5 projects in the hopper and ready to go? It's been nine years since the lost tales, and 12+ years since TMOS.

Short answer: Because he's a professional. That's not meant to be rude, it's how professionals do things-they get paid for working, same as you or me. Writing is how he makes his living. You seem to be (correct me if I'm wrong) positing that he have actual, completed scripts all written and waiting just in case somebody commissions something? It doesn't work that way.

For instance, TMOS. That was a commissioned script and the group that commissioned it had input into what kind of story they wanted to tell and maybe even what characters they might want (we don't know, though there was some issue with wanting to re-cast characters). Or they might have asked JMS to pitch ideas he already had. However it went, that script (which from what JMS posted underwent numerous revisions) belongs to the group that commissioned him to write it.

Ditto the TV series that WB commissioned. In that case, JMS said that he'd gotten complete creative control written into his contract. Not knowing exactly when the proposed venue dead-ended, we don't know whether he'd completed any scripts or just made notes. But since WB is a signatory of the WGA Basic Agreement, outlines and scripts would trigger certain payments.

Your (apparent) thinking is that JMS should have finished product ready to whip out at a moment's notice. Given that he doesn't own those characters or the B5 universe (except for the feature film rights), that would be the equivalent of him writing fanfic that could never see the light of day. Why would he do that instead of contracting for a feature film script that will keep him in coffee and chocolate and kitty treats for the next while?

But when you talk about will... What about his engaging in a couple of years of negotiations to try to buy back the rights to B5 so that he *could* do something with it? In my book, that's putting his money down on something he believes in and, if he'd been successful, would have been a far greater service for B5 than writing a few scripts for 'just in case'. And given those negotiations, chances are that he's got a pretty good idea of where WB stands on the idea of making new B5. My impression is that they (WB) have no intention of doing anything whatsoever. And given that they're the only possible market other than JMS' own feature film efforts is another good reason for him to not have written any scripts 'on spec'.

Hoping this doesn't come across as confrontational - just want to give you as good an answer as is my understanding.

Jan

[Delenn_of_Mir]

Short answer: Because he's a professional. That's not meant to be rude, it's how professionals do things-they get paid for working, same as you or me. Writing is how he makes his living. You seem to be (correct me if I'm wrong) positing that he have actual, completed scripts all written and waiting just in case somebody commissions something? It doesn't work that way.

For instance, TMOS. That was a commissioned script and the group that commissioned it had input into what kind of story they wanted to tell and maybe even what characters they might want (we don't know, though there was some issue with wanting to re-cast characters). Or they might have asked JMS to pitch ideas he already had. However it went, that script (which from what JMS posted underwent numerous revisions) belongs to the group that commissioned him to write it.

Ditto the TV series that WB commissioned. In that case, JMS said that he'd gotten complete creative control written into his contract. Not knowing exactly when the proposed venue dead-ended, we don't know whether he'd completed any scripts or just made notes. But since WB is a signatory of the WGA Basic Agreement, outlines and scripts would trigger certain payments.

Your (apparent) thinking is that JMS should have finished product ready to whip out at a moment's notice. Given that he doesn't own those characters or the B5 universe (except for the feature film rights), that would be the equivalent of him writing fanfic that could never see the light of day. Why would he do that instead of contracting for a feature film script that will keep him in coffee and chocolate and kitty treats for the next while?

But when you talk about will... What about his engaging in a couple of years of negotiations to try to buy back the rights to B5 so that he *could* do something with it? In my book, that's putting his money down on something he believes in and, if he'd been successful, would have been a far greater service for B5 than writing a few scripts for 'just in case'. And given those negotiations, chances are that he's got a pretty good idea of where WB stands on the idea of making new B5. My impression is that they (WB) have no intention of doing anything whatsoever. And given that they're the only possible market other than JMS' own feature film efforts is another good reason for him to not have written any scripts 'on spec'.

Hoping this doesn't come across as confrontational - just want to give you as good an answer as is my understanding.

Jan

Great answer, Jan! That makes a ton of sense. Also I wasn't around for the TMOS days and I always wondered what happened to that script.

[Jan]

No real news but at least it's confirmation that the feature film's still being planned:

ADTV: Hollywood loves reboots. Would you like He-Man to get a reboot? Or even Babylon 5?

JMS: He-Man I don’t own, so I can’t comment. I would love to reboot Babylon 5 as a series, but Warner Bros. has made it clear that they don’t want to do anything with the show since it didn’t come about through the WB Television division (it was developed by WB Domestic Distribution during the PTEN network stage), so as far as they’re concerned it simply doesn’t exist. I do retain the film rights, however, and I plan to try and get a Babylon 5 feature in the works soon.

http://www.awardsdaily.com/tv/interview-sense8-straczynski/

Jan