Babylon 5 Movie through Studio JMS

[Jan]

Slap in the face? C'mon...that's taking it much too seriously. And Sense8 was already happening when JMS made the B5 film announcement (just for accuracy's sake).

We have to understand the difference between personal projects like 'The Flickering Light' and the B5 movie and the script books and even the comics work. Of necessity those are going to take second place to the work that pays the bills. They're not promises, they're targets that he's shooting for at that time. No contracts expressed or implied.

And really, he doesn't owe us any updates. We know from what he said that the next step would be getting financing. That's none of our business and wouldn't further his aims at all. Let's try to be patient until there's real news. Or until SDCC this year, whichever comes first.

Jan

[Jonas]

I've had projects I thought would take six months that ended up taking multiple years. Art is extremely unpredictable, doubly so in the economic system we live in. That's just how it is. It's not a slap in the face to the fans, it's doing something that's incredibly complicated and time-consuming while also trying to remain part of an industry that forgets who you are after about half an hour.

[Nastastu]

I've had projects I thought would take six months that ended up taking multiple years. Art is extremely unpredictable, doubly so in the economic system we live in. That's just how it is. It's not a slap in the face to the fans, it's doing something that's incredibly complicated and time-consuming while also trying to remain part of an industry that forgets who you are after about half an hour.

And did you announce that within 6 months this was going to occur and then say nothing when it didn't during those years it took?

[Jan]

And did you announce that within 6 months this was going to occur and then say nothing when it didn't during those years it took?

Do I need to remind you that there's not exactly a deadline being missed yet? What he said was:

So in 2015 I will write a Babylon 5 screenplay.

It's only 6 days into 2016.

Jan

[Nastastu]

Slap in the face? C'mon...that's taking it much too seriously. And Sense8 was already happening when JMS made the B5 film announcement (just for accuracy's sake).

We have to understand the difference between personal projects like 'The Flickering Light' and the B5 movie and the script books and even the comics work. Of necessity those are going to take second place to the work that pays the bills. They're not promises, they're targets that he's shooting for at that time. No contracts expressed or implied.

And really, he doesn't owe us any updates. We know from what he said that the next step would be getting financing. That's none of our business and wouldn't further his aims at all. Let's try to be patient until there's real news. Or until SDCC this year, whichever comes first.

Jan

My point is that you need to have some sort of respect for your fans and what you say. I'm not saying that you have to hit any date you announce but if you are going to put dates on things, have the decency to make another announcement to that effect. If you can't, you shouldn't be making that first announcement at all.

Like say when an author announces they are going to have a book out in the fall. When that isn't going to occur, it is known. There isn't still a banner at the bookstore saying "X coming out in August 2015!" in January 2016 and the book still has not been finished. I have seen writers post long reasons as to why it wasn't going to come out on time, before that date arrives. Not that I am expecting him to post the reasons, but to at least update the banner on his frickin website so it doesn't continue to say August 2015.

[Jan]

I understand your point just fine. What I don't understand is what exactly you're looking for him to say? To use your own example, a book author would likely tell readers when they've gotten a contract for a book but then next update would probably be that publication date.

Yes, I'd love to see a post that says the script is done but that wouldn't exactly tell me much, would it? Next step is getting/completing financing of the studio which is none of our business.

And keep in mind that this was at a convention spotlight. It's not as if he sent out a press release. The only articles about it seem to stem directly from my transcript. You're acting as though his telling a few hundred fans his intentions is some kind of covenant. It's not. It was just JMS talking about his work to interested fans.

Jan

[Nastastu]

Right, and then when that book author isn't actually going to meet that publication date, it is known. Not just dropped and never mentioned like it never happened or continues to be listed for that date well after the fact.

This isn't just about B5. It's the string of things. B5 is used as one example because he gave specifics about the writing of the script and shooting. Then we get all these other announcements about what he is working on in 2016 but nothing about B5. What I am expecting from him is something along the lines of "Yep, still on track and working on this." or "Things have changed due to my other responsibilities so it's not going to be happening in the time frame that I first indicated." A post indicating that the script was done would be telling you something. It would be telling you that he was continuing to work on getting this made and not that it just fell off into a black hole somewhere.

This also has to do with his Studio JMS site and the fact it shows a date 4 months in the past. What I am looking for is for the site to be updated. At the very least the removal of the banner saying it's re-launching in August 2015.

This also stems from when I was reading (sorry can't remember exactly where I was reading it as it was some time ago, maybe here) where JMS was going to have some comics fleshed out and was involving another writer (female, again sorry I don't remember names). Spoke with her and got her all excited about doing this. Then time went on and she wasn't hearing anything. There was a post of hers saying she was still hopeful this was occurring but she understood how busy JMS had become and really hadn't heard back from him. Then a while after that a post from her indicating that it wasn't happening and how she was really disappointed. Maybe I was reading too much into it but it really came across like JMS was stringing her along at worst and at best just didn't want to admit to her that he wasn't going to have her do it. He already knew it wasn't going to happen because of other things he decided to do instead but took forever to actually let her know. At least that is how it came across to me. Ring any bells as I truly don't remember what the comics were or maybe I am confusing it with actual books.

I really don't understand your comment about this just having been mentioned in a convention spotlight. Especially when these exact events are used to get fans excited and it is wanted for the information from these to get out. It was more than just your post. Not getting the link to work but if you do a search you will find other websites that reported on this. Acting as if it was some kind of covenant? Wow...really?

[Jan]

Look, in some cases I completely share your frustration. I get tired of waiting months between comic issues, believe me. And don't get me started on how disappointed I am that the Crusade books have stalled for years.

(I think the title you're thinking of is a return of "The Book of Lost Souls" with Colleen Doran. But while she was disappointed, there's no indication at all that she's upset with JMS. And if she's not, as one who had a financial interest in it, nobody else really gets a vote. )

And what we've gotten is information that there was a shoot going on in Berlin for Sense8 that's not part of principle photography. That information came from the actors, not JMS. He only gave a little additional information that was probably aimed at keeping the rumor mill at bay in response to a specific question. The press release about Red Mars didn't have any quotes from JMS at all. Even if there had been, one doesn't squeeze information about other projects into a press release.

I really don't understand your comment about this just having been mentioned in a convention spotlight. Especially when these exact events are used to get fans excited and it is wanted for the information from these to get out. It was more than just your post. Not getting the link to work but if you do a search you will find other websites that reported on this. Acting as if it was some kind of covenant? Wow...really?

Yes, cons are for the purpose of getting fans excited. And yes, other sites reported what JMS said. Because there are always bloggers there. That doesn't mean that everything said is going to happen, it's just what's in the works at that time. Big difference between a con panel and a press release. Hey, remember a few years ago when JMS said that he'd be making a zombie musical web series? I'm sure he intended that at the time. It didn't happen. Apocalypse All was supposed to be a web series, too, but the distributor crapped out and it became a comic series instead. And so far 'Two Streets' hasn't happened. Nor has the 'Alone' comic. Or the Doyle/Houdini series. Or any number of projects that might have been in the works at different cons. Because that's the nature of show business.

A good example of that is when JMS introduced his agent to the audience, he mentioned that the agent had negotiated deals where JMS' involvement might range from first call on his attention (Sense8) to sixth in line for his attention. One makes deals like that because at least 90% or more of them are going to fall through.

We haven't had a project update from him in months. I've asked him - others have, too - so one can only assume that he's busy - or doesn't have anything concrete to report.

Bottom line: JMS doesn't owe us diddly. We're just spoiled by the level of communication he's shown in the past.

Jan

[Jonas]

Two points:

1) We have no financial investment in any of this, therefore no actual right to demand anything. Nobody is "owed" more Babylon 5, or updates, or even acknowledgement of their existence.

2) Writing announcements takes more time and effort than you'd think. I still have unanswered emails from over a year ago. Why? Because I have a ton of work, and a ton of emails to answer, and frequently at the end of the day I will say "Oh, I should really..." just before falling asleep. JMS has about three times as many projects going on as I do, and probably receives about a thousand times as much fanmail. Dealing with all of this takes a tremendous amount of effort and energy. I very much doubt JMS is making a conscious decision not to provide updates. He just isn't managing.

Speaking of which, I have more paperwork to do.

[Ubik]

I think there's always going to be the temptation to make big splashy announcements at SDCC. It get the media riled up and gives fans something to chew on. Of course we aren't entitled to anything, we're just fans. Although, without us fans, JMS might have struggled to get B5 completed in the first place.

I suppose nothing is concrete in show business, but I find there is too much news based on speculation and rumour these days. I wish news or convention announcements were based more on those projects that were concrete and confirmed as going ahead. I understand the temptation to announce embryonic projects if they are a big deal to fans (a B5 movie is), but it can be hard when no news follows and we have all gotten our hopes up.

[Jan]

I wish news or convention announcements were based more on those projects that were concrete and confirmed as going ahead. I understand the temptation to announce embryonic projects if they are a big deal to fans (a B5 movie is), but it can be hard when no news follows and we have all gotten our hopes up.

Thing is, "confirmed and going ahead" can be pretty meaningless, too. After all:

The order for “Red Mars” comes after Spike axed plans for Jerry Bruckheimer’s drama “Harvest,” after ordering a 10-episode series, as sources said Spike had difficulty finding a top showrunner and high-profile lead.

http://variety.com/2015/tv/news/red-mars-spike-series-order-1201656112/

So Red Mars ended up going from just a pilot to a series after this, it seems.

So it's kind of a 'damned if you do, damned if you don't'.

Jan

[Ubik]

Thing is, "confirmed and going ahead" can be pretty meaningless, too. After all:

http://variety.com/2015/tv/news/red-mars-spike-series-order-1201656112/

So Red Mars ended up going from just a pilot to a series after this, it seems.

So it's kind of a 'damned if you do, damned if you don't'.

Jan

I take your point, things are indeed very changeable.

But, I dunno, there's a big difference between having something in the can (fully written or a full season ordered, or even fully filmed and ready to screen) to 'we are going to do this, but nothing is really confirmed yet'. To my mind there's too much of the later going around, and I wish creators would just wait until it was a bit more than a glimmer in their eye.

[Jan]

To my mind there's too much of the later going around, and I wish creators would just wait until it was a bit more than a glimmer in their eye.

That's the thing. To my mind, active contract negotiations are genuine news and worthy of being announced.

Now, whether options should be part of that, I'm less certain. Many things have been 'fast-tracked' and that track went to never-never-land.

But if you've ever seen JMS at a con and seen the genuine fun he has in talking about so much cool stuff he gets to work on, I think it would be easier to understand why he may sometimes announce things that we might think is prematurely.

Jan

[Looney]

Hmmmmm . . . I have to disagree with some of what is being said. My opinion as a fan who has followed JMS' career since 1994 is that he does owe the fans something. I wouldn't say it is updates on a Babylon 5 project or even a Babylon 5 project itself. I think he owes the fans the best Babylon 5 project he is capable of creating if he is going to really do a Babylon 5 project. I mean I have invested much of my time and much of my money in Babylon 5 related fandom, so I think I deserve the best Babylon 5 he can produce if he is indeed going to produce it. It is like anyone you are emotionally and financially invested in, you want them to do their best. I believe he worked on a B5 script in 2015, but how great could it be if he tried squeeze it in between all of his "announced" projects and overdue projects? I don't mind waiting for updates, I just wish we'd stop getting other updates that make it sound like he's not had time to sit down and really focus on what he wants to do with B5. Yes it is great that he is making money and adding to his "street-cred", but I'm sure we all feel that hearing how busy he is also like hearing "I'll get to B5 later." and none of us are getting any younger.

SO now that I have that insecure negativity out of my system I will say that I fully recognize there probably were a couple of times in 2015 when JMS could have written the script. I am leaning toward just after Sense 8 premiered while he was delaying some comics. It seems like there might have been a month or so where he could have been focusing on B5 (I know he writes all of the time, but I want to say he took a month or two writing a new B5 because I want him to have REALLY focused. ) He could have a good first draft done and be waiting for the best moment to announce it. We only know what is put out there by JMS. We don't know how he spent all of his time in 2015. We know where a good portion of his time was spent, but there might be large gaps. He literally might have spent 2 months writing a B5 script and just kept it quiet. B5 is the biggest thing JMS has ever done so when he makes announcements about it possibly returning he is going to want to get the most bang for his buck. Pumping up that "street-cred" is only going to help that happen.

[Ubik]

I agree with your observation about the 'street cred' thing, JMS is definitely more visible than ever before. This can only help any kind of potential B5 project. I was so happy when Sense8 turned out to be good, and also did well for Netflix. Long may this continue, and it absolutely raises the possibility that we'll get that return to B5 done right.