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  • I've probably stated this before, but I believe it deserves to be repeated.

    Much as I continue to be a fan of Babylon 5, I was happy that Joe has expanded his writing beyond Babylon 5 and look forward to other television programs and films based on his screenplays. My avatar, an image of the ticket from my seeing Changeling the first night, is a subtle token of my continued support of Joe as a screenwriter.

    I also trust Joe to remain faithful to Babylon 5 in a new Babylon 5 film. The Babylon 5 Universe allows for many interesting departures based on the original series. Some of these departures can easily be encapsulated in one or more two to three hour films. I am being intentionally vague so I do not run the risk of compromising potential Babylon 5 films.

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    • I tried quoting Triple F, but the forum spasmed.

      I wanted to quote this part:[Babylon 5 is a complete package made up of the television show, the tele movies, the comics and the novels along with the later spin offs, and even the explanations and additional material provided by jms through his various online replies and published script books are part of that. Over the years they’ve become little bits of the same unbroken continuity – not just in the story sense but in the way some view them. Separate glimpses into different periods of time, showing different events in the same familiar ‘verse help make it more real and immersive. So a new Babylon 5 reboot, simply by existing, starkly clashes with that. The comfortable and familiar idea of an established ‘verse where if it says Babylon 5 on the title you’ll know it fits in with everything else no longer exists. You now have old Babylon 5 and new Babylon 5 – and to some this will basically be viewed as a kind of betrayal on the part of jms. The informal covenant between him as the creator of a unified interconnected ‘verse and all the characters and events within in it, and the viewers which have become invested in it has been broken, and it’s if somehow all that has gone before is deficient in some way.]

      Yes, this is exactly how I feel!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I couldn't put into the right words, thank you for finding the right words for me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
      Last edited by Delenn_of_Mir; 06-29-2015, 11:57 PM.

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      • My personal main reason why I share Delenn_of_Mir's reluctance about the reboot idea goes into a similar direction. Yes, a reboot doesn't change anything about what we've got before. However, it will also almost certainly kill the old B5. Granted, as it stands now, the chance for new adventures in the "old" universe are extremely thin, but a slim chance is still better than none. Also, given the fact that there are still a couple of lose story threads (the Telepath War, the Drakh Crisis, the Leftover Shadow-Tech, the specifics of Lenniers ultimate fate, The Hand, the possible Centauri attack on earth as seen in TLT,...), I don't think that the B5-story is completed. A reboot will kill even the faintest hope that we will ever get an official continuation, in whatever form (novels, comics, radio dramas, a new show, TV-Specials, more "Lost Tales", a movie, whatever). That's why the announcement of the reboot is such a bittersweet affair for me.

        That plus the fact that I'm sceptical about casting the old actors in new roles (it will be hard enough to accept, say, a new Sheridan, without seeing Bruce Boxleitner next to him as the Earth president, for example), and that what made B5 so great was the pay-off after a seasons-long buildup, which will be next-to-impossible to achieve in a single movie. With a movie set in the established B5-continuity, they might at least partially be able to build on what happened before (even though they'd have to walk a fine line, since you don't want it to be confusing for any newbies). But not when you push the reset-button and start anew.

        Of course I still remain hopeful about the reboot, and would watch it in a heartbeat. However, I for one would really prefer a continuation of what came before, than a complete restart.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by cornholio1980 View Post
          My personal main reason why I share Delenn_of_Mir's reluctance about the reboot idea goes into a similar direction. Yes, a reboot doesn't change anything about what we've got before. However, it will also almost certainly kill the old B5. Granted, as it stands now, the chance for new adventures in the "old" universe are extremely thin, but a slim chance is still better than none. Also, given the fact that there are still a couple of lose story threads (the Telepath War, the Drakh Crisis, the Leftover Shadow-Tech, the specifics of Lenniers ultimate fate, The Hand, the possible Centauri attack on earth as seen in TLT,...), I don't think that the B5-story is completed. A reboot will kill even the faintest hope that we will ever get an official continuation, in whatever form (novels, comics, radio dramas, a new show, TV-Specials, more "Lost Tales", a movie, whatever). That's why the announcement of the reboot is such a bittersweet affair for me.

          That plus the fact that I'm sceptical about casting the old actors in new roles (it will be hard enough to accept, say, a new Sheridan, without seeing Bruce Boxleitner next to him as the Earth president, for example), and that what made B5 so great was the pay-off after a seasons-long buildup, which will be next-to-impossible to achieve in a single movie. With a movie set in the established B5-continuity, they might at least partially be able to build on what happened before (even though they'd have to walk a fine line, since you don't want it to be confusing for any newbies). But not when you push the reset-button and start anew.

          Of course I still remain hopeful about the reboot, and would watch it in a heartbeat. However, I for one would really prefer a continuation of what came before, than a complete restart.
          See this is where I think there is a real opportunity. I think that if the new B5 is a success it will open up all kinds of possibilities for the original arc. In this day and age there are all kinds of ways the original arc could be continued with the original characters, if there are powers that are willing to finance it. We are witnessing a time when new rules are being applied to mass media. Maybe the new B5 is a huge hit and suddenly there is interest in telling the continuation of the original arc through books, or comics, or a series of audio dramas, or a serious animated series with the original cast through a venue like Netflix, or even a real series with the original cast that is creatively done taking into account their ages. (We all know that it isn't their ages alone keeping the original cast from their original roles in a theatrical reboot. There is also money and "politics" at play.) A successful reboot can open up sooo many doors.

          Yes conversely speaking a failed reboot can slam them shut, but isn't that kind of where we are anyway?! I mean we can hope #FREEBABYLON5 has more success in getting the show back on the air around the world and then maybe there is enough international outcry for new material that something changes, but honestly I think we're beyond that. Once JMS made the announcement the reboot became a done deal. I think it would only hurt the franchise to pull away from that now.

          I do agree that recasting the original actors in different roles will be very, very tricky. I do have hope though. When Richard Hatch showed up in the new Battlestar Galactica I thought he was absolutely awesome and the character was a perfect choice. As the series progressed I lost my appreciation. That was the fault of the writers and producers, not Hatch. As I see it Boxleitner as the Earth President ala Santiago would not work. Boxleitner as Clark I think would work very well. Something like Mira as a Morden like villain would be awesome. Peter as anything would be incredible. Claudia as a Catherine Sakai type might work really well. My point is that they would have to be the right roles. I think if they are too close to the original it would seem awkward.

          And just as a random thought that popped in my head, Mira as G'Kar. I know we will never see G'Kar again and I am glad for it, but isn't that an interesting choice - that I am certain someone has brought up before despite the fact that we are all semi-terrified, myself included, of ever mentioning any name in association with trying to recreate that character?! I mean Delenn actually had some G'Kar like qualities and issues while at the same time being so different that I don't think it would be strange for Mira to play that role. Just a thought.
          Susan Ivanova, "I'll be in the car."

          Comment


          • There shouldn't be a G'Kar. Changling B5 should have all new characters. Keep the station name, change everything else.

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            • Well, I wouldn't hold him to it, but JMS has said that there won't be another G'Kar, ever. But that may have been in the depths of grief, too.

              Jan
              "As empathy spreads, civilization spreads. As empathy contracts, civilization contracts...as we're seeing now.

              Comment


              • I completely agree that there should never be another G'Kar. I just want opinions on Mira Furlan as a choice if we could magically see G'Kar in an alternate universe that is not this reboot. I feel like she is one of the few people who could acceptably pull it off, and that is a pretty short list that may just include her IMO.
                Susan Ivanova, "I'll be in the car."

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Looney View Post
                  I completely agree that there should never be another G'Kar. I just want opinions on Mira Furlan as a choice if we could magically see G'Kar in an alternate universe that is not this reboot. I feel like she is one of the few people who could acceptably pull it off, and that is a pretty short list that may just include her IMO.
                  Well, considering the makeup requirements I think it’s pretty safe to say you’d get a vote of go $^%$%%% &&&^%$ XXXX yourself from Mira on that idea.

                  Comment


                  • LOL LOL LOL SO TRUE. Please don't tell her I said anything.
                    Last edited by Looney; 06-30-2015, 08:55 PM.
                    Susan Ivanova, "I'll be in the car."

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Looney View Post
                      See this is where I think there is a real opportunity. I think that if the new B5 is a success it will open up all kinds of possibilities for the original arc.
                      For new B5-material? Yes. New material for the original arc? Dunno, I just don't see it. I mean, let's say you're one of the guys that find B5 through the reboot, and then there's a new book coming out and it plays in a totally different timeline? Wouldn't that be incredibly confusing?

                      However, you do get all the positive effects that you describe by simply making a B5 movie in the established continuity - which is exactly what I hoped for for 15+ years now .

                      Yes conversely speaking a failed reboot can slam them shut,
                      Just to clarify, I never even took the question of success or failure into account. I think that as soon as B5 is rebooted, the old B5 is dead and buried (instead of "just" lying in a coma, as it's right now).

                      I do agree that recasting the original actors in different roles will be very, very tricky. I do have hope though.
                      Of course, I also hope for the best. I just wanted to point out while I can understand those who are not as overly enthusiastic about the idea of a B5-reboot, since I happen to be one of them . That doesn't mean that I don't want it to happen, or that I will boycott it, or something like that. I just would have prefered new material in the old, established continuity that I followed for more than 20 years .

                      Comment


                      • I suppose, and this is a bit of a wacky idea to say the least. But before any new proposed movie was to actually hit the cinema’s. Maybe this could even happen at the same time that the formal announcement of filming had began.

                        But perhaps a one off book, comic or short web series of some kind wrapping up some of the more popular story arcs, or providing an end story for some of the characters might help with the transition from old B5 to new……. Basically giving some fans the chance to essentially say “good bye” to old Babylon 5, and let them get their head around that an end of an era has been reached.

                        I mean, at the end of B5 we got something like this with the last few episodes of the show. Even the actors had to face up to the reality that the story has ended…. FULL STOP.

                        But then Crusade appeared, and was followed by the LoTR and TLT, which meant that more history was written after that initial full stop on the show. So maybe a new full stop might be a good idea…. Joe certainly has enough ways to get it out to the fans these days.

                        When we sat down to watch the Lost Tales none of us really imagined it would be the very last thing produced in the ‘verse. Quite the contrary, since we were told that more would be made if it was successful, and as jms said it outperformed WB’s expectations so everything looked good for new material until…. Well, you know. So fans (and hope) has sort of been left dangling since then….. and that’s probably causing part of the resistance to new Babylon 5 that some are expressing.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Triple F View Post
                          But perhaps a one off book, comic or short web series of some kind wrapping up some of the more popular story arcs, or providing an end story for some of the characters might help with the transition from old B5 to new……. Basically giving some fans the chance to essentially say “good bye” to old Babylon 5, and let them get their head around that an end of an era has been reached.
                          I always feel like such a wet blanket when I say this but...books, comics, web series, audio drama, sock puppet theater - those are all up to Warner Bros. I really hope that they'll come on board with the movie and that they'll want to do something really inventive but I'm afraid I don't have much hope of that.

                          Jan
                          "As empathy spreads, civilization spreads. As empathy contracts, civilization contracts...as we're seeing now.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Triple F View Post
                            When we sat down to watch the Lost Tales none of us really imagined it would be the very last thing produced in the 'verse. Quite the contrary, since we were told that more would be made if it was successful, and as jms said it outperformed WB’s expectations so everything looked good for new material until…. Well, you know. So fans (and hope) has sort of been left dangling since then….. and that’s probably causing part of the resistance to new Babylon 5 that some are expressing.
                            This. And everything else that you said. You perfectly summed up the reason why I'm so reluctant to embrace a reboot - and said it way better than I could have ever done. Thank you, sir!

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Jan View Post
                              I always feel like such a wet blanket when I say this but...books, comics, web series, audio drama, sock puppet theater - those are all up to Warner Bros. I really hope that they'll come on board with the movie and that they'll want to do something really inventive but I'm afraid I don't have much hope of that.

                              Jan
                              Well, here’s a thing to consider. If nothing else, jms can use the fair usage clause as much as anyone else. A free (and yes being free is a legal consideration in such things) story set in the B5 ‘verse covering events not covered in the show is essentially fan fiction…… and fan fiction is more than tolerated by WB….. hell, they sell it in kindle books on Amazon.

                              A commercial venture is one thing, but a FREE cartoon strip, short animation, audio drama or e-book - the sort of thing produced all over the place, by all kinds of fans, for all kinds of shows from all kinds of studios (including WB) is something else. I just don’t see WB being a realistic obstacle to such a thing…… and that’s assuming they would put a stop on something official to begin with.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Triple F
                                I suppose, and this is a bit of a wacky idea to say the least. But before any new proposed movie was to actually hit the cinema’s. Maybe this could even happen at the same time that the formal announcement of filming had began.

                                But perhaps a one off book, comic or short web series of some kind wrapping up some of the more popular story arcs, or providing an end story for some of the characters might help with the transition from old B5 to new……. Basically giving some fans the chance to essentially say “good bye” to old Babylon 5, and let them get their head around that an end of an era has been reached.

                                I mean, at the end of B5 we got something like this with the last few episodes of the show. Even the actors had to face up to the reality that the story has ended…. FULL STOP.

                                But then Crusade appeared, and was followed by the LoTR and TLT, which meant that more history was written after that initial full stop on the show. So maybe a new full stop might be a good idea…. Joe certainly has enough ways to get it out to the fans these days.

                                When we sat down to watch the Lost Tales none of us really imagined it would be the very last thing produced in the ‘verse. Quite the contrary, since we were told that more would be made if it was successful, and as jms said it outperformed WB’s expectations so everything looked good for new material until…. Well, you know. So fans (and hope) has sort of been left dangling since then….. and that’s probably causing part of the resistance to new Babylon 5 that some are expressing.
                                I may be in the minority here, but I’m more than ready for that fresh start.

                                Nothing that was produced after the final season of B5 really screamed ‘quality’ to me. It all just felt to me like the basic concept of the show had been stretched too far. 'Sleeping in Light' was that full stop for me, and it was perfectly realised and affecting. B5 should have finished there. it was a story with a beginning, middle and end. 'Get in, tell the story, get out', is what Joe said, or something to that effect.

                                Lost Tales was deeply underwhelming, and I tried so hard to like Crusade, but the low budget nature of the show, coupled with the early cancellation meant it never really found a place in my heart. Even JMS admits that doing Crusade was a mistake in retrospect. And don’t even get me started on LOTR. I don’t want to see any more cheap filler material or false starts. As fans, we deserve better and so does Joe.

                                I want the next thing I see to be a clean slate... and more importantly, i want it to be well thought out, high budget and with a beginning, middle and end. If it ain’t that, count me out!
                                Last edited by Ubik; 07-01-2015, 07:13 AM.
                                Captain John Sheridan: I really *hate* it when you do that.

                                Kosh: Good!

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