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Babylon 5 Movie through Studio JMS

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  • Jan
    replied
    Originally posted by Ubik View Post
    I wish news or convention announcements were based more on those projects that were concrete and confirmed as going ahead. I understand the temptation to announce embryonic projects if they are a big deal to fans (a B5 movie is), but it can be hard when no news follows and we have all gotten our hopes up.
    Thing is, "confirmed and going ahead" can be pretty meaningless, too. After all:

    The order for “Red Mars” comes after Spike axed plans for Jerry Bruckheimer’s drama “Harvest,” after ordering a 10-episode series, as sources said Spike had difficulty finding a top showrunner and high-profile lead.
    Spike has made a big move into scripted programming, giving “Red Mars” a straight-to-series order with 10-episodes, Variety has learned exclusively. The hourlong drama marks the cabler&…


    So Red Mars ended up going from just a pilot to a series after this, it seems.

    So it's kind of a 'damned if you do, damned if you don't'.

    Jan

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  • Ubik
    replied
    I think there's always going to be the temptation to make big splashy announcements at SDCC. It get the media riled up and gives fans something to chew on. Of course we aren't entitled to anything, we're just fans. Although, without us fans, JMS might have struggled to get B5 completed in the first place.

    I suppose nothing is concrete in show business, but I find there is too much news based on speculation and rumour these days. I wish news or convention announcements were based more on those projects that were concrete and confirmed as going ahead. I understand the temptation to announce embryonic projects if they are a big deal to fans (a B5 movie is), but it can be hard when no news follows and we have all gotten our hopes up.

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  • Jonas
    replied
    Two points:

    1) We have no financial investment in any of this, therefore no actual right to demand anything. Nobody is "owed" more Babylon 5, or updates, or even acknowledgement of their existence.

    2) Writing announcements takes more time and effort than you'd think. I still have unanswered emails from over a year ago. Why? Because I have a ton of work, and a ton of emails to answer, and frequently at the end of the day I will say "Oh, I should really..." just before falling asleep. JMS has about three times as many projects going on as I do, and probably receives about a thousand times as much fanmail. Dealing with all of this takes a tremendous amount of effort and energy. I very much doubt JMS is making a conscious decision not to provide updates. He just isn't managing.

    Speaking of which, I have more paperwork to do.

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  • Jan
    replied
    Look, in some cases I completely share your frustration. I get tired of waiting months between comic issues, believe me. And don't get me started on how disappointed I am that the Crusade books have stalled for years.

    (I think the title you're thinking of is a return of "The Book of Lost Souls" with Colleen Doran. But while she was disappointed, there's no indication at all that she's upset with JMS. And if she's not, as one who had a financial interest in it, nobody else really gets a vote. )

    And what we've gotten is information that there was a shoot going on in Berlin for Sense8 that's not part of principle photography. That information came from the actors, not JMS. He only gave a little additional information that was probably aimed at keeping the rumor mill at bay in response to a specific question. The press release about Red Mars didn't have any quotes from JMS at all. Even if there had been, one doesn't squeeze information about other projects into a press release.

    I really don't understand your comment about this just having been mentioned in a convention spotlight. Especially when these exact events are used to get fans excited and it is wanted for the information from these to get out. It was more than just your post. Not getting the link to work but if you do a search you will find other websites that reported on this. Acting as if it was some kind of covenant? Wow...really?
    Yes, cons are for the purpose of getting fans excited. And yes, other sites reported what JMS said. Because there are always bloggers there. That doesn't mean that everything said is going to happen, it's just what's in the works at that time. Big difference between a con panel and a press release. Hey, remember a few years ago when JMS said that he'd be making a zombie musical web series? I'm sure he intended that at the time. It didn't happen. Apocalypse All was supposed to be a web series, too, but the distributor crapped out and it became a comic series instead. And so far 'Two Streets' hasn't happened. Nor has the 'Alone' comic. Or the Doyle/Houdini series. Or any number of projects that might have been in the works at different cons. Because that's the nature of show business.

    A good example of that is when JMS introduced his agent to the audience, he mentioned that the agent had negotiated deals where JMS' involvement might range from first call on his attention (Sense8) to sixth in line for his attention. One makes deals like that because at least 90% or more of them are going to fall through.

    We haven't had a project update from him in months. I've asked him - others have, too - so one can only assume that he's busy - or doesn't have anything concrete to report.

    Bottom line: JMS doesn't owe us diddly. We're just spoiled by the level of communication he's shown in the past.

    Jan

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  • Nastastu
    replied
    Right, and then when that book author isn't actually going to meet that publication date, it is known. Not just dropped and never mentioned like it never happened or continues to be listed for that date well after the fact.

    This isn't just about B5. It's the string of things. B5 is used as one example because he gave specifics about the writing of the script and shooting. Then we get all these other announcements about what he is working on in 2016 but nothing about B5. What I am expecting from him is something along the lines of "Yep, still on track and working on this." or "Things have changed due to my other responsibilities so it's not going to be happening in the time frame that I first indicated." A post indicating that the script was done would be telling you something. It would be telling you that he was continuing to work on getting this made and not that it just fell off into a black hole somewhere.

    This also has to do with his Studio JMS site and the fact it shows a date 4 months in the past. What I am looking for is for the site to be updated. At the very least the removal of the banner saying it's re-launching in August 2015.

    This also stems from when I was reading (sorry can't remember exactly where I was reading it as it was some time ago, maybe here) where JMS was going to have some comics fleshed out and was involving another writer (female, again sorry I don't remember names). Spoke with her and got her all excited about doing this. Then time went on and she wasn't hearing anything. There was a post of hers saying she was still hopeful this was occurring but she understood how busy JMS had become and really hadn't heard back from him. Then a while after that a post from her indicating that it wasn't happening and how she was really disappointed. Maybe I was reading too much into it but it really came across like JMS was stringing her along at worst and at best just didn't want to admit to her that he wasn't going to have her do it. He already knew it wasn't going to happen because of other things he decided to do instead but took forever to actually let her know. At least that is how it came across to me. Ring any bells as I truly don't remember what the comics were or maybe I am confusing it with actual books.

    I really don't understand your comment about this just having been mentioned in a convention spotlight. Especially when these exact events are used to get fans excited and it is wanted for the information from these to get out. It was more than just your post. Not getting the link to work but if you do a search you will find other websites that reported on this. Acting as if it was some kind of covenant? Wow...really?
    Last edited by Nastastu; 01-06-2016, 07:35 PM.

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  • Jan
    replied
    I understand your point just fine. What I don't understand is what exactly you're looking for him to say? To use your own example, a book author would likely tell readers when they've gotten a contract for a book but then next update would probably be that publication date.

    Yes, I'd love to see a post that says the script is done but that wouldn't exactly tell me much, would it? Next step is getting/completing financing of the studio which is none of our business.

    And keep in mind that this was at a convention spotlight. It's not as if he sent out a press release. The only articles about it seem to stem directly from my transcript. You're acting as though his telling a few hundred fans his intentions is some kind of covenant. It's not. It was just JMS talking about his work to interested fans.

    Jan

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  • Nastastu
    replied
    Originally posted by Jan View Post
    Slap in the face? C'mon...that's taking it much too seriously. And Sense8 was already happening when JMS made the B5 film announcement (just for accuracy's sake).

    We have to understand the difference between personal projects like 'The Flickering Light' and the B5 movie and the script books and even the comics work. Of necessity those are going to take second place to the work that pays the bills. They're not promises, they're targets that he's shooting for at that time. No contracts expressed or implied.

    And really, he doesn't owe us any updates. We know from what he said that the next step would be getting financing. That's none of our business and wouldn't further his aims at all. Let's try to be patient until there's real news. Or until SDCC this year, whichever comes first.

    Jan
    My point is that you need to have some sort of respect for your fans and what you say. I'm not saying that you have to hit any date you announce but if you are going to put dates on things, have the decency to make another announcement to that effect. If you can't, you shouldn't be making that first announcement at all.

    Like say when an author announces they are going to have a book out in the fall. When that isn't going to occur, it is known. There isn't still a banner at the bookstore saying "X coming out in August 2015!" in January 2016 and the book still has not been finished. I have seen writers post long reasons as to why it wasn't going to come out on time, before that date arrives. Not that I am expecting him to post the reasons, but to at least update the banner on his frickin website so it doesn't continue to say August 2015.

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  • Jan
    replied
    Originally posted by Nastastu View Post
    And did you announce that within 6 months this was going to occur and then say nothing when it didn't during those years it took?
    Do I need to remind you that there's not exactly a deadline being missed yet? What he said was:

    Originally posted by JMS
    So in 2015 I will write a Babylon 5 screenplay.
    It's only 6 days into 2016.

    Jan

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  • Nastastu
    replied
    Originally posted by Jonas View Post
    I've had projects I thought would take six months that ended up taking multiple years. Art is extremely unpredictable, doubly so in the economic system we live in. That's just how it is. It's not a slap in the face to the fans, it's doing something that's incredibly complicated and time-consuming while also trying to remain part of an industry that forgets who you are after about half an hour.
    And did you announce that within 6 months this was going to occur and then say nothing when it didn't during those years it took?

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  • Jonas
    replied
    I've had projects I thought would take six months that ended up taking multiple years. Art is extremely unpredictable, doubly so in the economic system we live in. That's just how it is. It's not a slap in the face to the fans, it's doing something that's incredibly complicated and time-consuming while also trying to remain part of an industry that forgets who you are after about half an hour.

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  • Jan
    replied
    Slap in the face? C'mon...that's taking it much too seriously. And Sense8 was already happening when JMS made the B5 film announcement (just for accuracy's sake).

    We have to understand the difference between personal projects like 'The Flickering Light' and the B5 movie and the script books and even the comics work. Of necessity those are going to take second place to the work that pays the bills. They're not promises, they're targets that he's shooting for at that time. No contracts expressed or implied.

    And really, he doesn't owe us any updates. We know from what he said that the next step would be getting financing. That's none of our business and wouldn't further his aims at all. Let's try to be patient until there's real news. Or until SDCC this year, whichever comes first.

    Jan

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  • Nastastu
    replied
    Originally posted by Jan View Post
    The last time I asked about an update I even mentioned that there have been a lot of questions about the film. But let's face it, given how many times anything he says is going to be posted and discussed and thrown back at him if it doesn't happen per schedule, who can blame him if he doesn't say anything until there's something really concrete to report?

    Jan
    The problem I have is that this wasn't a flippant comment or just saying he would like to get something going. That would be different because it would be a generalization and comment about what he would like to do not what he is going to do. He specifically stated he was doing it and wasn't waiting around for others (WB). Either they jump on board or he does it without them as he wasn't wasting more time and more of the original actors passing beyond the rim. He gave a specific time frame for writing and shooting. Now we have Sense8 (don't get me wrong, love Sense8) being renewed for another season and him being the show runner for Red Mars on Spike with no comment from him about B5 and his previous declaration.

    "So in 2015 I will write a Babylon 5 screenplay. I’ll be giving Warner Bros. the opportunity – if they want to step up, “Help yourself”. If they don’t, 2016: We make it. I’m not going to wait around for more of our cast members to die."

    Kind of also like the Studio JMS site. Had a posting for how long now saying it was being updated and would be rebooted August 2015? Message is still there. You don't give specific dates unless you have some sense you can actually meet them. If you can't meet them, you announce that it isn't going to be met. You certainly don't give dates and then drop it and say nothing when those dates are months in the past.

    To me things like this is basically a slap in the face to fans. Especially when it happens again and again and the person says I don't want to give dates because when it doesn't happen people get upset, and then gives another date.
    Last edited by Nastastu; 01-06-2016, 01:24 PM.

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  • Ubik
    replied
    Originally posted by Jan View Post
    The last time I asked about an update I even mentioned that there have been a lot of questions about the film. But let's face it, given how many times anything he says is going to be posted and discussed and thrown back at him if it doesn't happen per schedule, who can blame him if he doesn't say anything until there's something really concrete to report?

    Jan
    Part of me wishes creators would wait until a project was actually underway before announcing it! For all we know IT IS underway, but the wait is hard for us fans.

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  • Jan
    replied
    Originally posted by Ubik View Post
    Damn! There was me hoping your post would be an update on progress.
    The last time I asked about an update I even mentioned that there have been a lot of questions about the film. But let's face it, given how many times anything he says is going to be posted and discussed and thrown back at him if it doesn't happen per schedule, who can blame him if he doesn't say anything until there's something really concrete to report?

    Jan

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  • Ubik
    replied
    Originally posted by Jan View Post
    I know in the last couple of months an awful lot of fans have been asking about it. Possibly prompted in part by the Red Mars news, too.

    Jan
    Damn! There was me hoping your post would be an update on progress.

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